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Europe - a mess to come

Looking at the Merkel thing this morning, German press divided by a sentence in her statement : ""I will now lead all negotiations in the spirit that Jean-Claude Juncker should become president of the European Commission". In spirit, and should be being the words causing consternation.
Looking through the Guardian comments I was right to suspect other parts of EUrope handled the election differently...-
AtomicKoalaLune13
30 May 2014 4:34pm
"A lot of us voted for the EPP. A lot of us watched the Commission candidate debate. I preferred Schulz, but Juncker won. The parties should negotiate now, not David Cameron. It should be none of national governments' business, only Parliament's."


Its a perfect storm. Still Cameron has laid out his position clearly at the European Council, no need to change, if I was him next thing I'd do is have a friendly question lobbed at PMQ's and start reading Labour's campaign material at Milliband. it not like they weren't aware of these democratic reforms to the system - it was David Milliband that negotiated it.
 
I think Angela Merkel is going to direct the weather so we get a perfect storm or something. I assume gosub is accusing her of witchcraft.
 
We could have a thread about what is the likely real effect on the EU parliament and Comission of having so many new Eurosceptic MEPs...........
 
gosub said:
Got to get a Commission first
Click to expand...
Got to get a President first.

Merkel is desperately torn; on the one hand she wants to hand a lifeline to Cameron's need for a 'reformist' in a bid to keep UK within the 'family', but then again she's under domestic and French pressure to go for the old-style Europhile, integrationist Juncker. For the time being the latter pressures appear to have out-weighed the former and Cam looks stuffed. One possibly counter-intuitive impact of the sceptical damage done to so many EU heads of state is the further strengthening of Merkel. With her vote holding up her integrationist Council influence is even stronger.
 
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Depends which German paper you read Spiegal reckons she's shakey and stalling. This has got everything democratic accountability, sovereignty, ramifications of reform... And requires a binary solution one side must lose.
 
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gosub said:
Depends which German paper you read Spiegal reckons she's shakey and stalling. This has got everything democratic, accountability, sovereignty, ramifications of reform... And requires a binary solution one side must lose.
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Springer are certainly behind Juncker.
 
Early days yet. Juncker can't get majority in council and only Juncker can get majority in Parliament
 
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brogdale said:
Got to get a President first.

Merkel is desperately torn; on the one hand she wants to hand a lifeline to Cameron's need for a 'reformist' in a bid to keep UK within the 'family', but then again she's under domestic and French pressure to go for the old-style Europhile, integrationist Juncker. For the time being the latter pressures appear to have out-weighed the former and Cam looks stuffed. One possibly counter-intuitive impact of the sceptical damage done to so many EU heads of state is the further strengthening of Merkel. With her vote holding up her integrationist Council influence is even stronger.
Click to expand...

I'm lumping the President of the Commision in with all the other Commissioners. We have a president of Council as well in von Romploy.

So people might start to find things confusing. And I'd hate that.
 
This is a battle of conflicting thoughts. All he has done is acknowledge that and sit firmly on the public fence.
 
Cameron am Rande des Treffens deutlich, ein solches Votum könne seine Regierung derart destabilisieren, dass ein Austrittsreferendum vorgezogen werden müsste und mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit zu einem Nein der Briten zur EU-Mitgliedschaft führen werde. :eek: de Spiegel


In case anyone is confused, this philosophically isn't UK v Geremany. This, due to the way(s) the election was conducted, is a live game of which is more powerful. The elected heads of European member states or the elected heads of pan EUropean political parties
 
Speigel are reporting that Cameron has warned Merkel he could not ensure Britain would stay in the EU if Junker becomes President of the EU Commission.

They have taken this to mean he may bring forward an EU referendum. Downing Street have not commented on this so far. Lots of inferences and maybes in this story.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...en-juncker-lucke-will-zu-tories-a-972685.html

In English via Reuters

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/31/uk-britain-election-referendum-idUKKBN0EB0QD20140531
 
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goldenecitrone said:
Speigel are reporting that Cameron has warned Merkel he could not ensure Britain would stay in the EU if Junker becomes President of the EU Commission.

They have taken this to mean he may bring forward an EU referendum. Downing Street have not commented on this so far. Lots of inferences and maybes in this story.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...en-juncker-lucke-will-zu-tories-a-972685.html

In English via Reuters

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/31/uk-britain-election-referendum-idUKKBN0EB0QD20140531
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Now in Guardian...

In a pre-publication copy of an article, Spiegel said the prime minister had explained, on the sidelines of an EU summit in Brussels on Tuesday, that if Juncker became commission president, Cameron would no longer be able to ensure Britain's continued EU membership.

The magazine said participants understood Cameron's comments to mean that a majority vote for Juncker could destabilise his government to the extent that an "in-out" referendum would have to be brought forward.

That in turn, they understood, would most likely lead to the British people voting to quit the EU, the magazine said.
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Spiegel turn Cameron's desperate attempt to worry Merkel into ditching Juncker into the tories morphing into super-UKIP. Laughable spin.
 
J Ed said:
Very democratic this process of selecting the EU executive.
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All candidates have said they would rather have a popular mandate rather than becoming Commission president as the result of a backroom deal.

The fact that they are appointed by the nation state leaders means they have no real mandate and are not a federal executive in the sense that Washington is. They can produce an agenda but it gets put in the bin if its out of step with the EU council where the real power lies.

That is why they are not elected because the EU is not a superstate but a federation of nation states working on a fudged consensus. The irony of years of EUphobe babble about 'unelected Brussels bureaucrats' means if we had a referendum tomorrow about whether Commissioners should be elected it would be won. Then you would be moving towards a real federal Europe not the imaginary one in Nigel Farage's head.
 
In one sentence you say that talk about unelected Brussels bureaucrats is babble, in another you say that they have no popular mandate :rolleyes:
 
youngian said:
All candidates have said they would rather have a popular mandate rather than becoming Commission president as the result of a backroom deal.

The fact that they are appointed by the nation state leaders means they have no real mandate and are not a federal executive in the sense that Washington is. They can produce an agenda but it gets put in the bin if its out of step with the EU council where the real power lies.

That is why they are not elected because the EU is not a superstate but a federation of nation states working on a fudged consensus. The irony of years of EUphobe babble about 'unelected Brussels bureaucrats' means if we had a referendum tomorrow about whether Commissioners should be elected it would be won. Then you would be moving towards a real federal Europe not the imaginary one in Nigel Farage's head.
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They are selected by nation state leaders, but appointed by Parliament. And in some countries the election was covered in a EPP vs Socialist format and they broadcast the debate between Juncker and Shultz about what they wanted to do with the Commission. Very different to our election
 
J Ed said:
In one sentence you say that talk about unelected Brussels bureaucrats is babble, in another you say that they have no popular mandate :rolleyes:
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I meant the Eurosceptic obsession with how terrible it is that commissioners are unelected is a load of hooey and misunderstands the function and role of the European Commission.

Yes they don't have a popular mandate and a good thing too. When you are appointed you don't have any real power, which lies with the EU council.
 
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