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Easter, Jesus....

biggus dickus

biggus dickus

what a dork!
Banned
I'm not interested in Metaphysics really, but the Easter story is a good one I think, however it's a bit like when you read a book about anything and it's not really what happened

So what do you think really happened that week in Jerusalem? When I try to imagine it as a thing that happened based on the story it's like noone took responsibility. From the Bible not even Jesus comes off that well, he builds everyone up then does nothing, typical Italian.
His disciples just walk around crying, the Jewish and Roman governments refuse to govern

As I remember the entire Bible tails off after that, everyone gets superpowers and everything will be great

Opinions and conjecture on the Easter story?
 
It was all a conspiracy to stop the Pagans enjoying themselves. Next!
 
Jesus-Cries.jpg
 
Minor criminal tried and sentenced under the quite clearly just laws of the Roman Peace for his crackpot sedition and penchant for illegal public assembly and conjuring tricks, later his nut-job mates begin to spin tall tales.
 
Personally I think it's the best thing an Abrahamic prophet has ever done. I mean, like dying and coming back to life that's pretty hardcore isn't it. Moses parted the Red Sea which is cool I guess, but it's not spitting in death's face is it. And I don't know what Muhammad ever did that required a complete bypass of any sensible reasoning, which is what prophets have to do if they want to establish any sort of faith.
 
JimW said:
Minor criminal tried and sentenced under the quite clearly just laws of the Roman Peace for his crackpot sedition and penchant for illegal public assembly and conjuring tricks, later his nut-job mates begin to spin tall tales.
Click to expand...

The Roman Empire's Julian Assange ?
 
smmudge said:
Personally I think it's the best thing an Abrahamic prophet has ever done. I mean, like dying and coming back to life that's pretty hardcore isn't it. Moses parted the Red Sea which is cool I guess, but it's not spitting in death's face is it. And I don't know what Muhammad ever did that required a complete bypass of any sensible reasoning, which is what prophets have to do if they want to establish any sort of faith.
Click to expand...

I think that is the stupidest thing about the Bible! Christians say that he died for our sins, but dying isn't really much of a sacrifice if you can come back to life at will or if you do choose to die you go to sit on a throne and rule the universe
 
I've been hearing this story for the best part of 50 years and it hasn't moved me to belief in anything outside science.
This "Everlasting Life" business - the actions of Xtians over the centuries and the regurgitation of a load of ancient ballcocks - and Cliff Richard doesn't bode well for what it's like there.. and the Islamic version is even less appealing.
 
gentlegreen said:
I've been hearing this story for the best part of 50 years and it hasn't moved me to belief in anything outside science.
This "Everlasting Life" business - the actions of Xtians over the centuries and the regurgitation of a load of ancient ballcocks - and Cliff Richard doesn't bode well for what it's like there.. and the Islamic version is even less appealing.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should have been clearer in the first post, I am not really interested in 'The Church' , just the Easter story. A lot of it is meant to be true, it's just interesting why this one person became such a cult

What was the process of him being executed and then becoming a folk tale and then the Roman Empire choosing this folk tale as their religion etc
 
biggus dickus said:
I think that is the stupidest thing about the Bible! Christians say that he died for our sins, but dying isn't really much of a sacrifice if you can come back to life at will or if you do choose to die you go to sit on a throne and rule the universe
Click to expand...

Well yeah it's stupid. I mean if it was 100% reasonable and clear and made sense there'd be no need for any faith about it would there. It's stupid but it's like the most essential part.

Was body snatching common in those days? That's probably what happened.
 
smmudge said:
Well yeah it's stupid. I mean if it was 100% reasonable and clear and made sense there'd be no need for any faith about it would there. It's stupid but it's like the most essential part.

Was body snatching common in those days? That's probably what happened.
Click to expand...

The tomb of Joseph of Arimethia donated to jesus was a hole in a rock, covered by massive rock. They put two tough leggionaires on gaurd for snatchers. They ran away when an angel told them to gtfo
 
smmudge said:
Well yeah it's stupid. I mean if it was 100% reasonable and clear and made sense there'd be no need for any faith about it would there. It's stupid but it's like the most essential part.

Was body snatching common in those days? That's probably what happened.
Click to expand...


Interestingly Easter which is the only major lunar festival in the Christian calendar is only a week after the Chinese 'tomb sweeping' festival. Since Jesus's tomb plays such a central role in the Christian story, the only logical conclusion can be that Jesus was in fact Chinese and not Jewish!
 
The Romans were pretty fickle - always adopting local gods wherever they went.

As for this particular daft story.

I suppose it was that the Abrahamic cult started in a major centre of civilisation and literacy - presumably had the luxury of that because the food supply was good ...

It would be interesting to put the belief systems of all the other major civilisations on parallel time lines ..
 
gentlegreen said:
The Romans were pretty fickle - always adopting local gods wherever they went.

As for this particular daft story.

I suppose it was that the Abrahamic cult started in a major centre of civilisation and literacy - presumably had the luxury of that because the food supply was good ...

It would be interesting to put the belief systems of all the other major civilisations on parallel time lines ..
Click to expand...

Yeah I love stuff like that. I hate people mocking the Bible and things as if it isn't important. I'm not religious but it's so foolish to laugh at or disrespect something so central to history

Someone must have done those timelines somewhere
 
You need a materialist view of history - the late Roman Empire had created conditions were a salvationist creed could flourish, and the one that emerged, Christianity isn't just what JC did plus older Jewish teaching but incorporates stuff like Mithraism from the army. This explains its early spread among the marginal and so on, and the later choice as an imperial religion cements it. There's aspects to the theology that suit it to play the role Constantine wanted, but a lot of the later even more ideologically handy bits were worked out after the fact.
 
JimW said:
You need a materialist view of history - the late Roman Empire had created conditions were a salvationist creed could flourish, and the one that emerged, Christianity isn't just what JC did plus older Jewish teaching but incorporates stuff like Mithraism from the army. This explains its early spread among the marginal and so on, and the later choice as an imperial religion cements it. There's aspects to the theology that suit it to play the role Constantine wanted, but a lot of the later even more ideologically handy bits were worked out after the fact.
Click to expand...

So why did they choose that guy?

The Roman empire was massive at the time and had so many martyrs. Barabbus was another rebel leader in pretty much the same situation at the same time for example. The empire was full of popular rebel leaders
 
biggus dickus said:
So why did they choose that guy?

The Roman empire was massive at the time and had so many martyrs. Barabbus was another rebel leader in pretty much the same situation at the same time for example. The empire was full of popular rebel leaders
Click to expand...
I think there were particular reasons why it was Jesus and no one of the many other self-proclaimed messiahs or prophets from other traditions, but otoh, it's because it was him that we then maybe read more back into it than as there - by which I mean, it took the addition of those other elements (can't recall it all, but elements of other Middle Eastern cults, incl. iconography and theology) before it became what we later come to see as Christianity. My version just is a bit garbled and half-remembered from reading better arguments by people who really do know this shit, but seems the most likely version to me. Do agree with you that you shouldn't dismiss what the spiritual aspects meant to people and why it appealed, but that's only a part of the whole phenomenon IMO.
ETA: Anyhow, going by your name you were there at the time and met Brian, so shouldn't you be telling us?
 
JimW said:
I think there were particular reasons why it was Jesus and no one of the many other self-proclaimed messiahs or prophets from other traditions, but otoh, it's because it was him that we then maybe read more back into it than as there - by which I mean, it took the addition of those other elements (can't recall it all, but elements of other Middle Eastern cults, incl. iconography and theology) before it became what we later come to see as Christianity. My version just is a bit garbled and half-remembered from reading better arguments by people who really do know this shit, but seems the most likely version to me. Do agree with you that you shouldn't dismiss what the spiritual aspects meant to people and why it appealed, but that's only a part of the whole phenomenon IMO.
ETA: Anyhow, going by your name you were there at the time and met Brian, so shouldn't you be telling us?
Click to expand...

Not just the spiritual aspects. You know every job which is based on writing or using numbers is still called 'clerical work' because all of the numbers and letters came from the church, it's impossible to imagine culture without the church

I know that there are some really good arguments and theories about Jesus, especially the Easter story and the events that it was based on, the Roman empire didn't embrace Christianity until 100s of years after his death, I think the idea of an idea that never dies was meant to be tied into Rome as much as anything else

Oh and I was just a Roman yuppie visiting my mate, ask me about Samson the South Seas Strangler....

edit: I do know that Muslims invented numbers, I was lumping them all together
 
Obviously the whole political and social role of the church beyond the spiritual, including in literature, philosophy and the rest is also fascinating and central to Western European history. It does strike me that there's particular things about Christian doctrine and practice that affected the West (original sin for instance - been out in East Asia for some years and think the absence of that idea is a factor in different social relations) in ways that aren't strictly determined by the material facts of its development, but then a materialist view was never just simply mechanical I think.
The bit about it being hundreds of years after him dying to its embrace is part of what I'm trying to get at - think it first spread as a salvationist love cult among the slaves and other marginalised of the empire, picked up various other odds and sods of heterodox religion (including the sort of symbolism sptme notes) and then after getting chosen was formalised and further evolved into something else again.
 
eoin_k said:
It didn't do any harm that the Jesus cult took a liberal view to Mosaic laws. So you could enjoy a roast dinner with your old mates, appreciate a nice statue and retain your foreskin.
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Indeed, no longer having to follow 613 commandments is a pretty attractive option.

It helped that converting was / is very easy. You just wake up one day, decide you're Christian and that's that. Most other religions, especially the other two Abrahamic religions require a conversion process, to greater or lesser degrees.
 
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