Was jesus born on the 25 december

[jesuscrept]

Because it's all made up. Fairy tales, but fairy tales have less magic in them.

 

[jesuscrept]

Many years later.

Exactly.

 

[mrfusion]

I don't think Christians place as much importance on the date as some people suggest. The date is symbolic, no? Also, whatever festival Xmas was stolen from wasn't within our calendar, so while it may have taken over a winter festival, to claim that it was the 25this probably misguided.

 

[Olle]

We know very little of him. Only a few of his 35 years have been written about.

do you know who wrote about him jews romans pagans and how jesuscrept do you know his age when killed

 

[DotCommunist]

Olle is a bot based on the chinese room idea.

 

[Olle]

Olle is a bot based on the chinese room idea.

tell me more

 

[Dr Dolittle]

I don't think Christians place as much importance on the date as some people suggest. The date is symbolic, no? Also, whatever festival Xmas was stolen from wasn't within our calendar, so while it may have taken over a winter festival, to claim that it was the 25this probably misguided.

I assume Dec 25 was calculated as the equivalent date of whatever calendar was used at the time.
And for serious Christians, including monks and nuns, the most important event in the Christian calendar is not Christmas, but Easter.

 

[danny la rouge]

A collection of short stories.

The New Testament is pretty good evidence that a remarkable teacher did exist. The Bible has much that is fictional, of course, but it would be obtuse not to see that there is at least an argument to be made that in a time where a carpenter's son would leave no paper trail at all, the Gospels could be the surviving records of stories told about a man who made a big impression.

The Gospel of Mark is the earliest Gospel, and closest to the oral source material. It was of course written several decades after Jesus' death, and will therefore include a lot of oral traditions along with the kernels of truth. We should be sceptical about its accuracy. But we should not dismiss out of hand the idea that it is about a real person.

Albert Schweitzer's Quest for the Historical Jesus is still the best book on the subject.

He wasn't God, of course. That'd be ludicrous.

 

[Olle]

The New Testament is pretty good evidence that a remarkable teacher did exist. The Bible has much that is fictional, of course, but it would be obtuse not to see that there is at least an argument to be made that in a time where a carpenter's son would leave no paper trail at all, the Gospels could be the surviving records of stories told about a man who made a big impression.

The Gospel of Mark is the earliest Gospel, and closest to the oral source material. It was of course written several decades after Jesus' death, and will therefore include a lot of oral traditions along with the kernels of truth. We should be sceptical about its accuracy. But we should not dismiss out of hand the idea that it is about a real person.

Albert Schweitzer's Quest for the Historical Jesus is still the best book on the subject.

He wasn't God, of course. That'd be ludicrous.

Who wrote the new testament

 

[danny la rouge]

Who wrote the new testament

Several people. Why?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Is it ninjaboy?

 

[Olle]

Several people. Why?

Is there any females involded

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Is there any females involded

The gospel of Mary:

http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I read a book a long time ago that claimed his birth would have probably been around Oct 18 or 19 in AD. 6 or so. He searched out the records for the census that Mary and Joseph were traveling to take part in and narrowed it down to the one near that date as the most likely.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Is it ninjaboy?

Ninjaboy is a figment of the imagination that never existed.

 

[two sheds]

The bible tells us that it's ok to kill ... insolent children.

it does have a point there, though

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

it does have a point there, though

In any rational civilization, retroactive abortion until the age of 19 would be legal.

 

[Edie]

The New Testament is pretty good evidence that a remarkable teacher did exist. The Bible has much that is fictional, of course, but it would be obtuse not to see that there is at least an argument to be made that in a time where a carpenter's son would leave no paper trail at all, the Gospels could be the surviving records of stories told about a man who made a big impression.

The Gospel of Mark is the earliest Gospel, and closest to the oral source material. It was of course written several decades after Jesus' death, and will therefore include a lot of oral traditions along with the kernels of truth. We should be sceptical about its accuracy. But we should not dismiss out of hand the idea that it is about a real person.

Albert Schweitzer's Quest for the Historical Jesus is still the best book on the subject.

He wasn't God, of course. That'd be ludicrous.

Why do you think so many people came to believe he was god? I mean in the time he was alive or soon after his death/ resurrection?

 

[jesuscrept]

Why do you think so many people came to believe he was god? I mean in the time he was alive or soon after his death/ resurrection?

Because if they didn't they were tortured and/or killed in many instances.

 

[Edie]

Because if they didn't they were tortured and/or killed in many instances.

But how did it happen. Historically. I mean Jesus was socially unimportant wasn't he, he was a carpenter. Does anyone know how he gained such a massive following, how people believe they saw miracles, enough to think he was god. How then his followers gained such power?

 

[two sheds]

A lot down to Paul, wasn't it? He turned from persecuting christians to prostheletising. My understanding was that jesus was just talking to the jews (throwing crumbs from the master's table and all that) but Paul decided that non-jews could be christians and so started it all off

 

[DotCommunist]

@jesuscrept

Sod off is it, prat, in the first instance many believed his divinity and were tortured and killed for it long before the roman church gained enough dominance to turn the tables. And the answer probably lies in the very old pagan ideas surrounding the summer king, dies at seasons end, is reborn etc etc. Mithras, Odin- I'm sure their are others but a madhi messiah complex predates christ. As well to say mother/maddonna worship is cos she'd spank your botty if you didn't believe in the mother goddess.

 

[goldenecitrone]

But how did it happen. Historically. I mean Jesus was socially unimportant wasn't he, he was a carpenter. Does anyone know how he gained such a massive following, how people believe they saw miracles, enough to think he was god. How then his followers gained such power?

The Roman Empire adopted him as a lucky mascot.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

A lot down to Paul, wasn't it? He turned from persecuting christians to prostheletising. My understanding was that jesus was just talking to the jews (throwing crumbs from the master's table and all that) but Paul decided that non-jews could be christians and so started it all off

I believe that the violence started with a difference of opinion of who would lead the Church and who had the true teachings, Paul and his followers or the Gnostic Christians. Paul was the one who championed the idea that Jesus was God and eventually he won out. It seems similar to the succession issues that came up after the death of Mohamed.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The Roman Empire adopted him as a lucky mascot.

It was common in the Roman empire to deify "heroes" and build temples to them.

 

[DotCommunist]

It was common in the Roman empire to deify "heroes" and build temples to them.

yes but thats not much more than a sophisticated version of ancestor worship as found in many religions. Jesus as 'messiah' redeemer etc taps into a slightly different vein common to many religions

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

yes but thats not much more than a sophisticated version of ancestor worship as found in many religions. Jesus as 'messiah' redeemer etc taps into a slightly different vein common to many religions

True. My take on some of the sources I've read is that Paul grabbed that framework and used it for his power grab. It was a common theme in several religions of the general region, but it was also politically useful to exploit.

 

[two sheds]

True. My take on some of the sources I've read is that Paul grabbed that framework and used it for his power grab. It was a common theme in several religions of the general region, but it was also politically useful to exploit.

As long as women don't wear hats in church. If that doesn't happen then we're all ok.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

As long as women don't wear hats in church. If that doesn't happen then we're all ok.

Or speak, or have consensual sex, or attempt to hold power of any kind, etc. Its not an accident that some of the women mentioned as his early followers ended up on the Gnostic side.

 

[jesuscrept]

@jesuscrept

Sod off is it, prat, in the first instance many believed his divinity and were tortured and killed for it long before the roman church gained enough dominance to turn the tables.

You need to brush up on your christian history. The Christians may have been persecuted but they were converting people with the sword long before Rome turned Christian.