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Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

Everybody is entitled to vote for who they want of course but it just baffles me personally why anyone would vote for Trump.

He only ever comes across imo as a petulant, childish, arrogant, self centred, focused more on being negative about others (which says a lot about someone) yet still egotistical, power hungry, wants the job as leader of the most powerful country in the world for all the wrong reasons, law unto himself tyrannical megalomaniac.

I don't know him personally though so could be wrong.
 
Aaronf said:
Everybody is entitled to vote for who they want of course but it just baffles me personally why anyone would vote for Trump.

He only ever comes across imo as a petulant, childish, arrogant, self centred, focused more on being negative about others (which says a lot about someone) yet still egotistical, power hungry, wants the job as leader of the most powerful country in the world for all the wrong reasons, law unto himself tyrannical megalomaniac.

I don't know him personally though so could be wrong.
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There’s a couple of levels here. There’s one where I get that people don’t want business as usual because business as usual has fucked them.

But there is very much is another level where I wonder how people, justifiably angry or not, look at this man and think “the orange man baby is the answer to my problems”.
 
danny la rouge said:
There’s a couple of levels here. There’s one where I get that people don’t want business as usual because business as usual has fucked them.

But there very much is another level where I wonder how people, justifiably angry or not, look at this man and think “the orange man baby is the answer to my problems”.
Click to expand...


In some ways this is the crux of the issue.

You're baffled by them. They know they're unreadable and thereby get trashed by those they see as elitist: educated, privileged, more enabled and facilitated by the systems... There experience is being kept down booted down ignored etc, and they also see Black and Brown people, refugees, LGBTQ, etc all getting help and sympathy.

They feel beaten bruised and insulted.
 
story said:
In some ways this is the crux of the issue.

You're baffled by them. They know they're unreadable and thereby get trashed by those they see as elitist: educated, privileged, more enabled and facilitated by the systems... There experience is being kept down booted down ignored etc, and they also see Black and Brown people, refugees, LGBTQ, etc all getting help and sympathy.

They feel beaten bruised and insulted.
Click to expand...
No, no, I do get all that. I know. And I suppose when people are told the ballot box is their only recourse, then they believe they have little option. I do get all that.

And I blame the left for not getting the message across that politics isn’t just the ballot box, for one thing.

But on the other hand, and on another level, this man? I can’t help finding that bit a little perplexing.
 
I think the blood's going to boil out of my body over the next 4 years and and doubtless Trumpists would go 'well hahaha, tough shit wokey bitch' but at the end of the day I'll be fine... unlike miscarrying women whose blood will literally be coming out of their bodies as they die in hospital car parks because a bunch of old, white guys think that 'Well maybe a miracle will happen' is sound medical guidance
 
danny la rouge said:
No, no, I do get all that. I know. And I suppose when people are told the ballot box is their only recourse, then they believe they have little option. I do get all that.

And I blame the left for not getting the message across that politics isn’t just the ballot box, for one thing.

But on the other hand, and on another level, this man? I can’t help finding that bit a little perplexing.
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I'm as bewildered as you are tbh.

And yes, this is a collosal failure of the Left and of the Dems, and of politics/democracy in general, which is theoretically meant to make sure the electorate is informed and empowered.

The long work of dis-educating, disenfranchising, dis-incentivising etc has inevitably brought us here.


Ringside seat at the circus at the end of the world.
 
danny la rouge said:
There’s a couple of levels here. There’s one where I get that people don’t want business as usual because business as usual has fucked them.

But there is very much is another level where I wonder how people, justifiably angry or not, look at this man and think “the orange man baby is the answer to my problems”.
Click to expand...
I agree on both points, it's a tale as old as time that the masses (us) are promised change by those with power and it's swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Then when they fail, another lot do the same and rinse and repeat. I'm sure that most just want normal comfortable lives (whatever that looks like) but the world is somewhere between ignorance and totally screwed.

I do feel for the Americans who's alternative is a 78 year old man who's been tangoed over and over again.
 
story said:
I'm as bewildered as you are tbh.

And yes, this is a collosal failure of the Left and of the Dems, and of politics/democracy in general, which is theoretically meant to make sure the electorate is informed and empowered.

The long work of dis-educating, disenfranchising, dis-incentivising etc has inevitably brought us here.


Ringside seat at the circus at the end of the world.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, I absolutely agree with all that. And I’m arguing that on another thread.

Smokeandsteam put it succinctly: Trump is a symptom of the problem.

I do however also wish to have some space to be frustrated and bewildered.
 
danny la rouge said:
Smokeandsteam put it succinctly: Trump is a symptom of the problem.
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But even this is paradoxical. Trump is both a symptom of the problem and the perfect exemplification of the problem. He is the elite. He will push the interests of the rich at the expense of everyone else. Those struggling Americans who think their lives are going to improve under Trump are going to be disappointed.
 
People underestimate how vast America is. There are millions and millions of people living in small communities miles away (literally and figuratively) from the New Yorks, Chicagos, LAs etc. These are folks who have virtually no local law enforcement, a single school which runs with no day to day involvement with authority other than edicts passed down from on high, hospitals miles and miles away, volunteer local fire services etc etc. As a general rule, these communities will forever vote for the "smaller government" option, because government intervention is essentially meaningless - it's only noticed when the long arm of authority 'interferes' in a negative sense (that their taxes pay for). It's no wonder the Libertarian "leave us the fuck alone" mindset is so prevalent.

These people aren't stupid en masse, or a homogeneous block defined by racism and misogyny. There will no doubt be elements of that within communities (as there are in ALL communities), but it's not millions of people driven by hate and enthusiastic about finally getting hateful representation; they'll have simply weighed up the "low tax/low intervention, American jobs for Americans" promises of the republicans vs the "additional funding for community outreach programmes in the underprivileged inner city areas of Detroit" perception of the Democrats, and voted on the "what matters more to me?" principle. Which in many cases means an X next to Trump's name.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
But even this is paradoxical. Trump is both a symptom of the problem and the perfect exemplification of the problem. He is the elite. He will push the interests of the rich at the expense of everyone else. Those struggling Americans who think their lives are going to improve under Trump are going to be disappointed.
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Yes, and that’s why I’m frustrated and bewildered. Despite knowing that desperate people have behaved desperately.
 
Gromit said:
If we only concentrate on the abortion issue…

The human misery they have caused to women as a result of voting Trump is incalculable…

On that alone Monstering them seems totally fair to me.
Click to expand...

It might feel fair but it really really doesn't arrest this topple into the abyss that will drag all of us down.

There will be many who are both Trump supporters and victims of his policies.

As satisfying as shaudenfreude feels in the moment, it's like the flip side of bitterness, it neither achieves not changes anything. It's self oriented.

Pointing and laughing at the leopard-eaten won't save the rest.



Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm defending or justifying any if this horror show.

But FFS this split between "us clever good them stupid bad" is also contributing to the fucking chasm opening up.at our feet. I'll keep backing away for sure but I'm not going to put extra work into hating those who've been fooled and manipulated so badly.
 
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