Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[krtek a houby]

Thoroughly dischuffed with the recent turn of events.

Without wishing to resort to hyperbole, I believe future historians, such as will exist, will be able to pin point today as the start of the final stage of the implosion of human civilisation. I wish I wasn't exaggerating.

It began with the invention of the wheel, and its been downhill all the way since

 

[danny la rouge]

He isn't President yet

Does he know that, though? (To repeat an earlier joke).

 

[Wookey]

It began with the invention of the wheel, and its been downhill all the way since

We had some high spots! We got to the Moon after all, someone will realise that in a few million years time, and they'll be dead impressed.

 

[xenon]

Fuck it, I'm going to make myself unpopular.

I'm getting fed up with all this we need to understand and listen to these people. That's been said for years and it has got us here.

Maybe what needs to be understand is that a lot of people are just stupid and selfish. I don't get why people are desperate to absolve these people of responsibility for their choices. It's only the right that ever gets that privilege. The only difference between them and me is I'm a better person and a more intelligent person (there I said it) but they are just as accountable for their actions as me.

But they are poor (most of them actually won't be) so fucking what? so am I. But the media, so fucking what? I live in the same media landscape. These people do not deserve our understanding, or our sympathy when they fall victim to the person they choose to elect. Fuck em.

Well it's not really about giving them a big hug and nodding along to their incoherent controdictory reasoning. With the worst of the Trump supporters, the enthusiastically endorsing and salivating types, I feel similarly as I do towards burglers and muggers. However, you can still be mindful of the conditions that have lead to the empowering and mobilising of these peple.

None of that's rocket science anyway. If there's another election in 2028, I expect it to swing back to the Democrats as they'll at least be able to capitlise on the old hacknied need for change energy, even if they haven't faced up to anything else.

But cunting them off, the unashamed Trumpests, as a bit of catharsis is fine too by me. They're all over SM with loving the liberal / lefty teers ATM, so have at it.

 

[brogdale]

This is useful basic overview of the purchase that Project 2025 has over the 2nd Trump administration. It's obviously unclear to what extent the Heritage Foundation's ideas will direct US policy 2025 - 2029, but it's clear that in the conservative/neoliberal 'marketplace of ideas' some of their ideas will prevail.

Roberts was confident Trump would embrace and adopt many of Project 2025’s recommendations, and in doing so “usher in the most glorious golden age of conservative reform since Ronald Reagan”. Heritage had an “understanding based on conversations with President Trump and his associates that some large percentage of these recommendations will be in the mix for implementation”

pols if link is £walled...maybe google the title?

 

[emanymton]

Maybe most importantly, where does this position leave you/us in terms of what can be done about all this? Because really that position, , leads you to misanthropy, despair and giving up on any hope for a better world.

This pretty much just this

 

[Ax^]

I'll happily be proven wrong but I suspect, rather like in Brexit, the key wasn't the votes of the poorest and most desperate but the increasingly hard done by middle aged and middle class who were successfully convinced that their worsening economic position is due to immigration /the woke etc rather than the politics of both parties, and a need to restore a mythic past era, install some strong leaders. To feel big again.

Propped up by those doing OK and not keen to share.

think we all should stop looking at the USA as some ideal of Western ideal's


really motto of the american dream as this election shows is
"i got mine .. Fuck you "

 

[xenon]

I'm hearing rumours of a demo outside the American Embassy in London today. Anyone know anything?

Ha,. A load of Guardian reading fluffy middle class whiners shouting shit slogans outside the US embassy is just gonna look embarrassing.

 

[Plumdaff]

Ha,. A load of Guardian reading fluffy middle class whiners shouting shit slogans outside the US embassy is just gonna look embarrassing.

The alternative would be some reflection on how they might prevent similar happening here at the next election.

So a fucking demo (against the winner of the popular vote) it is

 

[Plumdaff]

This is useful basic overview of the purchase that Project 2025 has over the 2nd Trump administration. It's obviously unclear to what extent the Heritage Foundation's ideas will direct US policy 2025 - 2029, but it's clear that in the conservative/neoliberal 'marketplace of ideas' some of their ideas will prevail.



pols if link is £walled...maybe google the title?

https://archive.ph/VnIdn

 

[emanymton]

This pretty much just this

My phone posted early so to expand a bit.

I stopped hoping for a better world a while ago and switched to hoping things would get shit slower, but apparently that was too optimistic as well.

I do get your points here but your position here hasn't worked either, you say it was not acted upon, okay why? Who's fault is that? If you belive it is the fault of people on the left then why are they accountable in a why that Trump voters are not? If it is no one's fault then maybe it is the position that's wrong?

I think there is an unspoken assumption in your position that these people are too stupid to understand things which I think is more extreme than what I said out loud. We hold the left accountable becuase the left are better and smarter.

I don't have a solution, but I am increasingly sceptical of the "understand" approach. Or maybe I'm not maybe what I'm saying is we are not understanding in the right why.

This longer than I meant ot to be and I need to get back to work, and of of course many of us are somewhat fucked of this morning.

Tagging in LDC as I just remembered I'm replying to them but quoting myself

 

[Humberto]

I do get your points here but your position here hasn't worked either, you say it was not acted upon, okay why? Who's fault is that? If you belive it is the fault of people on the left then why are they accountable in a why that Trump voters are not? If it is no one's fault then maybe it is the position that's wrong?

I think there is an unspoken assumption in your position that these people are too stupid to understand things which I think is more extreme than what I said out loud. We hold the left accountable becuase the left are better and smarter.

I don't have a solution, but I am increasingly sceptical of the "understand" approach. Or maybe I'm not maybe what I'm saying is we are not understanding in the right why.

Because they are winning and we don't want that to happen?

 

[pogofish]

hmm don't think the world is where it was in 2016 or the republican party

not all republicans are card carrying racists or spud loons

him forgetting this about the people who only voted for him on party line as he was the republican pick should cost him at the ballot

that and hopefully RFK jr absorbing that voting group

First time round, it was fairly clear that the Republicans had enough pull over Trump to have at least a few old hands/experienced politicians on his cabinet but I'n not convinced that's the case now?

I'm also reminded on Batista in Cuba - his first stint as president was fairly restrained but it was only after he was cast out, then re-elected that his full levels of exploitation and corruption became apparent.

 

[Sue]

A US voter interviewed on the radio just now said he voted for Trump because he had such good relationships with overseas political leaders. I mean like who? (Apart from Putin that is.)

 

[existentialist]

I'm shocked. He still hasn't fired anyone yet. Won't be long though.

He doesn't actually take office until January...

 

[Ax^]

First time round, it was fairly clear that the Republicans had enough pull over Trump to have at least a few old hands/experienced politicians on his cabinet but I'n not convinced that's the case now?

I'm also reminded on Batista in Cuba - his first stint as president was fairly restrained but it was only after he was cast out, then re-elected that his full levels of exploitation and corruption became apparent.

aye those words have not aged well

saying that trump has always been the distraction .. it what the GOP will do now they have a massive mandate and popular vote to play with
Americans of all races appear to be happy to accept a jack boot for lower prices at the grocery store

 

[krtek a houby]

A US voter interviewed on the radio just now said he voted for Trump because he had such good relationships with overseas political leaders. I mean like who? (Apart from Putin that is.)

Kim, Xi, Erdogan, Orban, Duterte

 

[BristolEcho]

A US voter interviewed on the radio just now said he voted for Trump because he had such good relationships with overseas political leaders. I mean like who? (Apart from Putin that is.)

My brother was banging on about this the other day giving his meeting with Kim Jpng Un as an example. Ignoring that pretty much everyone has said how much of a disaster that was and it didn't work. I think for my brother he just sees big acts and then doesn't follow up on it as he's not that engaged so assumes it all went fine.

 

[existentialist]

Well it's not really about giving them a big hug and nodding along to their incoherent controdictory reasoning. With the worst of the Trump supporters, the enthusiastically endorsing and salivating types, I feel similarly as I do towards burglers and muggers. However, you can still be mindful of the conditions that have lead to the empowering and mobilising of these peple.

None of that's rocket science anyway. If there's another election in 2028, I expect it to swing back to the Democrats as they'll at least be able to capitlise on the old hacknied need for change energy, even if they haven't faced up to anything else.

But cunting them off, the unashamed Trumpests, as a bit of catharsis is fine too by me. They're all over SM with loving the liberal / lefty teers ATM, so have at it.

Mostly, I've learned a different approach, which saves even having to work out if they are unashamed Trumpists (or Covid deniers, Reform Party bag carriers, etc) or not.

I tend to agree with them, then differentiate on the details, which they're usually not up to speed with enough to want to argue about them. And if they're diehard Trumpists, me not going toe-to-toe with them from the outset confuses them, and sometimes pisses them off. But at least this way, they get to do the heavy lifting in the pissed-offness department, not me. If they aren't diehard Trumpists, then there's a small chance that being heard might allow the possibility of a little doubt to creep in.

It does take a hell of a lot of restraint sometimes, though.

ETA: I once amused myself hugely in a discussion with a rather generalist conspiracy type by using only quantum-mechanical ideas and terms to reframe his strange ideas. He definitely left more confused than when he arrived. Trouble is, he's a nice bloke and means well, he's just massively misguided.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Your position is also exactly the same as authoritarians and fascists;

This BS - equating fascists with anti-fascists - has to stop.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Every fucking time some two bit Nazi gets elected the jerk urban reflex is to blame everybody but the ones who actually voted for them.

 

[emanymton]

This BS - equating fascists with anti-fascists - has to stop.

I didn't take that part personally, I don't think he actually thinks I'm a fascist, or as bad as one. At least I hope not.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's been said, but not acted upon in an effective and politically sound way.

Your position is also exactly the same as authoritarians and fascists; they're stupid, we need to be in charge. It's a massive problem on the left and a significant part of why this has happened.

Maybe most importantly, where does this position leave you/us in terms of what can be done about all this? Because really that position, if it doesn't lead you to some kind of authoritarianism, leads you to misanthropy, despair and giving up on any hope for a better world.

Here’s where the nuance lies. And it’s a hard balance to strike.

I’ve not seen the stats, but I’m pretty sure it won’t turn out that only the privileged voted for Harris and only the unprivileged voted for Trump. So there are just going to be some privileged bigots voting for bigotry. I don’t know that my understanding will help with them much.

And also I do get why the disenfranchised are won over by the far right, but I’m also certain we must oppose the far right. So the liberal howl of “you’re stupid” doesn’t help at all. But at the same time we (as in those of us who are not liberals) do need a response.

As has been said, many of us have our battles in life yet don’t support far right demagogues. We have a political grounding that prevented that. But how and why? And how do we replicate that throughout our class?

And once someone has been won over by a far right demagogue? On a one to one basis I might be able to appeal to them, knowing that “there but for the grace of Marx etc”, but I fear that if the only response we can come up with is one to one conversations, we aren’t going to get anywhere.

There is a gap between punching fascists on the street and hoping to reason with people won over by fascism. There are inconsistencies there that I personally haven’t bridged.

This is a similar place to that in which I found myself during the far right pogroms this summer. I still haven’t resolved it.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

aye those words have not aged well

saying that trump has always been the distraction .. it what the GOP will do now they have a massive mandate and popular vote to play with
Americans of all races appear to be happy to accept a jack boot for lower prices at the grocery store

When I heard Black and Latino men being interviewed about why they supported Trump, I knew he'd win. I hoped I was wrong. They were all saying what a "manly man" he was. Exit polls show that 22 percent voted for Trump. That's almost double their numbers in 2016. It was the triumph of misogyny over racism.

 

[andysays]

A US voter interviewed on the radio just now said he voted for Trump because he had such good relationships with overseas political leaders. I mean like who? (Apart from Putin that is.)

Starmer was pretty quick to congratulate him earlier.

 

[LDC]

Every fucking time some two bit Nazi gets elected the jerk urban reflex is to blame everybody but the ones who actually voted for them.

It's not about blame though, and I wasn't saying they were, but that the position of sneering and blaming the thick people is similar to the position that authoritarians have. Yes, people can have selfish and bigoted ideas, but reducing it to that is not just not enough, it's part of the problem. We need better politics and ones that lead us in productive directions.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It looks like the orange buffoon will win the greater number of votes this time.

 

[Ax^]

When I heard Black and Latino men being interviewed about why they supported Trump, I knew he'd win. I hoped I was wrong. They were all saying what a "manly man" he was. Exit polls show that 22 percent voted for Trump. That's almost double their numbers in 2016. It was the triumph of misogyny over racism.

aye sadly the racism is coming with the misogyny as a bonus

 

[A380]

think we all should stop looking at the USA as some ideal of Western ideals…

I never did, always look more to France and The Netherlands for that TBF. But probably cos I’m a wanky reformist.

 

[brogdale]

Starmer was pretty quick to congratulate him earlier.

Starmer was also pretty quick to speak to him after the 1st assassination attempt and had dinner with him at trump tower when he was in NY for the UN thing.