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Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

It might feel fair but it really really doesn't arrest this topple into the abyss that will drag all of us down.

There will be many who are both Trump supporters and victims of his policies.

As satisfying as shaudenfreude feels in the moment, it's like the flip side of bitterness, it neither achieves not changes anything. It's self oriented.

Pointing and laughing at the leopard-eaten won't save the rest.



Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm defending or justifying any if this horror show.

But FFS this split between "us clever good them stupid bad" is also contributing to the fucking chasm opening up.at our feet. I'll keep backing away for sure but I'm not going to put extra work into hating those who've been fooled and manipulated so badly.
I’m not so sure fooled is the correct term.

On The Newsagents podcast Emily Matiss said (paraphrasing) This will boil down to whether America is Materialistic or Idealistic.

The moment she said it my heart sank and I knew Trump would win. I knew America would choose their pockets over anything. Americans would be fully aware what the downside would be but would still chose their pockets. It’s a different culture where money is seen as a moral virtue. Part of their moral compass where ‘Greed is good’ to quote a well known film.
 
I’m not so sure fooled is the correct term.

On The Newsagents podcast Emily Matiss said (paraphrasing) This will boil down to whether America is Materialistic or Idealistic.

The moment she said it my heart sank and I knew Trump would win. I knew America would choose their pockets over anything. Americans would be fully aware what the downside would be but would still chose their pockets. It’s a different culture where money is seen as a moral virtue. Part of their moral compass where ‘Greed is good’ to quote a well known film.


Yes this.

I was predicting Trump would win as soon as he declared he'd be standing.

I got laughed at on here but the only time I felt otherwise was during that brief moment of hope after Harris took over from Biden.
 
In some ways this is the crux of the issue.

You're baffled by them. They know they're unreadable and thereby get trashed by those they see as elitist: educated, privileged, more enabled and facilitated by the systems... There experience is being kept down booted down ignored etc, and they also see Black and Brown people, refugees, LGBTQ, etc all getting help and sympathy.

They feel beaten bruised and insulted.

all true but finding someone else to beat , burse and insult is not to be encouraged

it not class wanting to beat down just because it be done to you.. it a cunts reaction

got enough of it rising in ireland atm.. some people need a kick in the head to wake them up
 
Yes this.

I was predicting Trump would win as soon as he declared he'd be standing.

I got laughed at on here but the only time I felt otherwise was during that brief moment of hope after Harris took over from Biden.
I think for the Democrats to ever win again they need to overturn this false fallacy that Republican = better for the economy.

Bill Clinton was great for the economy, until he got himself sacked.
American economy under Biden recovered from Covid a lot faster than most of the world. Surprisingly so.
Obama gave Trump a good economy to claim as his own achievement.

Overturning people’s beliefs about the economy is where they should have focused. All other issues are irrelevant to getting elected.
 
Yes, some desperate people have behaved desperately, but all too many not-so-desperate people have behaved despicably as well to make this happen. Plenty of traditional Republican voters are not on the bread line.
I agree. And I’d like to have the space to acknowledge that I understand the motivations of deprived people, as well as despair at the outcome. To understand that Trump is a symptom, as well as despair at the pain caused by the symptoms. To understand that voters are not homogenous, as well as understanding that hatred is a selective type of “solidarity”. To hate the causes of fascism, as well as hating fascism.

Because, and I use the word sparingly and only after consideration, Trump’s ideology is fascist. Whether he transforms the US into a fascist state is another question. But he is fascist. And that I despair of.
 
There’s a couple of levels here. There’s one where I get that people don’t want business as usual because business as usual has fucked them.

But there is very much is another level where I wonder how people, justifiably angry or not, look at this man and think “the orange man baby is the answer to my problems”.
Yeah, this is the thing for me.

I absolutely understand people being angry. To a point, at least, I understand them being angry at things or people I don't think they should be angry at. And I understand why some of them would see Trump as the answer.

But I am perplexed, fascinated and depressed by a lot of the remaining people who think "yeah, I will vote for this guy". Clearly they are seeing and/or ignoring things I can't, but I'd genuinely love to understand the thought process more.
 
Well looking at the positives,,,, no there aren't any.

Unless Trump's term is such a disaster it even deters the US from electing another vindictive fascist criminal for a good few decades.
 
Thats it. No more news for me. I have been far too mentally invested in this election. All the news, podcasts, discussions, political comedy.
It's not funny anymore, that country is so utterly utterly fucked.
I don't want to know. I don't want to hear. There is nothing I can do except get ground down into a pit of despair.
I'm switching off.
 
Well looking at the positives,,,, no there aren't any.
You don't actually live in the US? (or maybe you do)
Unless Trump's term is such a disaster it even deters the US from electing another vindictive fascist criminal for a good few decades.
His last term was economically and politically a bit of a disaster and that didn't put anyone off.
 
Everybody is entitled to vote for who they want of course but it just baffles me personally why anyone would vote for Trump.

He only ever comes across imo as a petulant, childish, arrogant, self centred, focused more on being negative about others (which says a lot about someone) yet still egotistical, power hungry, wants the job as leader of the most powerful country in the world for all the wrong reasons, law unto himself tyrannical megalomaniac.

I don't know him personally though so could be wrong.

I think that says a lot more about the mindset of the people who voted for him than anyone with any faith in the inherent good of humanity would probably like to admit.

:(
 
Thats it. No more news for me. I have been far too mentally invested in this election. All the news, podcasts, discussions, political comedy.
It's not funny anymore, that country is so utterly utterly fucked.
I don't want to know. I don't want to hear. There is nothing I can do except get ground down into a pit of despair.
I'm switching off.

Understand your grief, but was it really that much of a surprise?
 
Yeah, this is the thing for me.

I absolutely understand people being angry. To a point, at least, I understand them being angry at things or people I don't think they should be angry at. And I understand why some of them would see Trump as the answer.

But I am perplexed, fascinated and depressed by a lot of the remaining people who think "yeah, I will vote for this guy". Clearly they are seeing and/or ignoring things I can't, but I'd genuinely love to understand the thought process more.

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but the bit I absolutely cannot get my head around is the idea that this silver-spooned, New Yorker billionaire-son-of-a-millionaire is standing up for the little guy against 'the elite' when he's clearly part of the elite and wouldn't piss on the little guy if he was on fire.

The bigotry and scapegoating I understand - that's sadly as old as the hills - but he probably doesn't even believe in half of it. It's just a device or a wedge to garner support. I realise I'm straying into Walter Sobchak territory here ("Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos"), but at least the Le Pens and the Geert Wilders actually believe in their shite.
 
People underestimate how vast America is. There are millions and millions of people living in small communities miles away (literally and figuratively) from the New Yorks, Chicagos, LAs etc. These are folks who have virtually no local law enforcement, a single school which runs with no day to day involvement with authority other than edicts passed down from on high, hospitals miles and miles away, volunteer local fire services etc etc. As a general rule, these communities will forever vote for the "smaller government" option, because government intervention is essentially meaningless - it's only noticed when the long arm of authority 'interferes' in a negative sense (that their taxes pay for). It's no wonder the Libertarian "leave us the fuck alone" mindset is so prevalent.

These people aren't stupid en masse, or a homogeneous block defined by racism and misogyny. There will no doubt be elements of that within communities (as there are in ALL communities), but it's not millions of people driven by hate and enthusiastic about finally getting hateful representation; they'll have simply weighed up the "low tax/low intervention, American jobs for Americans" promises of the republicans vs the "additional funding for community outreach programmes in the underprivileged inner city areas of Detroit" perception of the Democrats, and voted on the "what matters more to me?" principle. Which in many cases means an X next to Trump's name.
As the auld quote goes, all politics is local
 
Fuck it, I'm going to make myself unpopular.

I'm getting fed up with all this we need to understand and listen to these people. That's been said for years and it has got us here.

Maybe what needs to be understand is that a lot of people are just stupid and selfish. I don't get why people are desperate to absolve these people of responsibility for their choices. It's only the right that ever gets that privilege. The only difference between them and me is I'm a better person and a more intelligent person (there I said it) but they are just as accountable for their actions as me.

But they are poor (most of them actually won't be) so fucking what? so am I. But the media, so fucking what? I live in the same media landscape. These people do not deserve our understanding, or our sympathy when they fall victim to the person they choose to elect. Fuck em.
 
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I ve just returned to the internet after some disruptions, why is the world on fire, is it 2016 again?

like 2016 but this time most people can no longer be arsed with it

don't think the trumpers are going to have a much fun when most people just go "meh"
 
Fuck it, I'm going to make myself unpopular.

I'm getting fed up with all this we need to understand and listen to these people. That's been said for years and it has got us here.

Maybe what needs to be understand is that a lot of people are just stupid and selfish. I don't get why people are desperate to absolve these people of responsibility for their choices. It's only the right that ever gets that privilege. The only difference between them and me is I'm a better person and a more intelligent person (there I said it) but they are just as accountable for their actions as me.

But they are poor (most of them actually won't be) so fucking what? so am I. But the media, so fucking what? I live in the same media landscape. These people do not deserve our understanding, or our sympathy when they fall victim to the perosn they choose to elect. Fuck em.
I do think there’s a difference between understanding and supporting.

I understand why Brexit won, and therefore I could see that the argument wasn’t about the EU at all. And I think, on reflection, that those like Mick Lynch who voted Leave in the hope of nationalising rail missed the point. It wasn’t an opportunity to defeat international neoliberalism. It wasn’t that at all. Sadly. It was the arena in which the far right grabbed the narrative.

In those circumstances, where there is privileged liberals arguing for more of the same, versus far right rhetoric over immigration it’s not as simple as picking a side. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. But ffs, let’s be clear who my enemy is.
 
Fuck it, I'm going to make myself unpopular.

I'm getting fed up with all this we need to understand and listen to these people. That's been said for years and it has got us here.

Maybe what needs to be understand is that a lot of people are just stupid and selfish. I don't get why people are desperate to absolve these people of responsibility for their choices. It's only the right that ever gets that privilege. The only difference between them and me is I'm a better person and a more intelligent person (there I said it) but they are just as accountable for their actions as me.

But they are poor (most of them actually won't be) so fucking what? so am I. But the media, so fucking what? I live in the same media landscape. These people do not deserve our understanding, or our sympathy when they fall victim to the person they choose to elect. Fuck em.

It's been said, but not acted upon in an effective and politically sound way.

Your position is also exactly the same as authoritarians and fascists; they're stupid, we need to be in charge. It's a massive problem on the left and a significant part of why this has happened.

Maybe most importantly, where does this position leave you/us in terms of what can be done about all this? Because really that position, if it doesn't lead you to some kind of authoritarianism, leads you to misanthropy, despair and giving up on any hope for a better world.
 
I'll happily be proven wrong but I suspect, rather like in Brexit, the key wasn't the votes of the poorest and most desperate but the increasingly hard done by middle aged and middle class who were successfully convinced that their worsening economic position is due to immigration /the woke etc rather than the politics of both parties, and a need to restore a mythic past era, install some strong leaders. To feel big again.

Propped up by those doing OK and not keen to share.
 
Fuck it, I'm going to make myself unpopular.

I'm getting fed up with all this we need to understand and listen to these people. That's been said for years and it has got us here.

Maybe what needs to be understand is that a lot of people are just stupid and selfish. I don't get why people are desperate to absolve these people of responsibility for their choices. It's only the right that ever gets that privilege. The only difference between them and me is I'm a better person and a more intelligent person (there I said it) but they are just as accountable for their actions as me.

But they are poor (most of them actually won't be) so fucking what? so am I. But the media, so fucking what? I live in the same media landscape. These people do not deserve our understanding, or our sympathy when they fall victim to the person they choose to elect. Fuck em.

I don't disagree.
Yes, plenty of stupid and selfish in the mix. On here too. They walk amongst us.

Some just are that way. Some have become that way as a consequence of being shafted. Bit of both too.

When I say we need to understand I don't mean in a wafty softy way. And while you say that hasn't helped, I'd say that's not been achieved. It's probably a non starter anyway.

Understanding why my family vote for Trump and retain their bigotry doesn't help or halt anything. It doesn't make me agree with them either. But at least I'm not floundering about in a dazed state of baffled righteousness. And it enables me to take personal measures (with them as individuals and as a group) to limit harms.


ETA I want to add that my allowance of my family's views is very much down to the fact that they are native to, and living in, the Deep South. And they're way the fuck down the social and financial ladder (although they'd argue otherwise). If any of those factors were different I'd think, feel, and behave differently.

I've taken them to task many times over the years, and more vigorously whenever they've been outside those parameters (e.g. on visits, if their personal circumstances change etc).
 
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Thoroughly dischuffed with the recent turn of events.

Without wishing to resort to hyperbole, I believe future historians, such as will exist, will be able to pin point today as the start of the final stage of the implosion of human civilisation. I wish I wasn't exaggerating.

😢
 
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