Does the welfare system predispose people to unhappiness?

[phildwyer]

In my experience of living in different countries and visiting different cultures, I believe you have a choice between social support and cohesion, and personal liberty and tolerance.

You can either do what you like, live how you want to live - and experience less social cohesion and weak family support structures; or you can have strong family structures and social cohesion but little tolerance for idiosyncracy and personal choice.

I guess that´s broadly true. I´ve lived in the USA and Turkey, which seem to fit the extremes to which you refer.

 

[8ball]

It was not them I had in mind, no.

Why do you ask? Do you mean to imply that the family structure is not strong in Mexico?

I don't see any reason to think familial bonds in general in Mexico would be any weaker than they are in this country, but when you have a lot of poverty and also lack a social safety net then it is more likely that children with little economic value to the family are going to be given the heave-ho.

Do you have any good links to evidence of reduced levels of homelessness and associated problems in Mexico?

 

[phildwyer]

I don't see any reason to think familial bonds in general in Mexico would be any weaker than they are in this country, but when you have a lot of poverty and also lack a social safety net then it is more likely that children with little economic value to the family are going to be given the heave-ho.

Do you have any good links to evidence of reduced levels of homelessness and associated problems in Mexico?

Just the evidence of my eyes. I spend a lot of time here, and I see far fewer homeless than I do in the USA or the UK.

 

[8ball]

Just the evidence of my eyes. I spend a lot of time here, and I see far fewer homeless than I do in the USA or the UK.

So you don't notice much visible homelessness in the places you frequent in Mexico compared to the places you frequent in the USA or UK.

That's pretty much fuck all to go on if you're going to be constructing grand theories about the causes of it.

 

[phildwyer]

So you don't notice much visible homelessness in the places you frequent in Mexico compared to the places you frequent in the USA or UK.

That's pretty much fuck all to go on if you're going to be constructing grand theories about the causes of it.

Why?

The fact that you don´t see many homeless seems like pretty good evidence for the lack of homelessness to me.

Or do you think they´re all hiding or something?

 

[elbows]

Dwyer is probably right about homelessness in Mexico, but putting it all down to the family is a mistake.

eg:

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimes....html?id=cdf607a1-4b02-4dbd-a2ea-0d957862a589

In Mexico, people living in the most extreme poverty can always find some wreck of a shed to squat in. If they can scratch up enough money for a few concrete blocks and a piece of tin for the roof, there's always someplace in town where they're able to set up a home.

If they can figure out a way to make a few pesos, they're free to do so. Some end up selling gum and bobble-headed toy turtles to tourists. Others hawk homemade tamales on local buses, with little fear of being turned in for a FoodSafe violation.

 

[Yossarian]

Why?

The fact that you don´t see many homeless seems like pretty good evidence for the lack of homelessness to me.

Or do you think they´re all hiding or something?

Sounds like some Mexican cities have been taking advice from Rudy Giuliani.

http://www.alternet.org/world/socia...meless-people-and-panhandlers-targeted-police

 

[phildwyer]

Sounds like some Mexican cities have been taking advice from Rudy Giuliani.

Yes, it was all over the news here when he came to Mexico City to advise their police. As if ruining New York City wasn´t enough for him.

It was a joke, he had zero understanding of the country, its history or even the causes of the present violence. He just went on about ¨getting tough¨and ¨cracking down,¨and every practical suggestion he made was impossible to implement for lack of funds.

 

[8ball]

Dwyer is probably right about homelessness in Mexico, but putting it all down to the family is a mistake....

Finding some kind of a wreck to get some partial shelter is what people sleeping rough here do - they're still homeless according to any sane definition.

 

[Greebo]

Why?

The fact that you don´t see many homeless seems like pretty good evidence for the lack of homelessness to me.

Or do you think they´re all hiding or something?

What do you think happened to a lot of beggars and rough sleepers in the West End who suddenly weren't visible there while the olympics and paralympics were on?

 

[8ball]

Why?

The fact that you don´t see many homeless seems like pretty good evidence for the lack of homelessness to me.

Or do you think they´re all hiding or something?

You just need to have a bit of a think about my first sentence to realise how dim you're being - I was hardly being cryptic.

 

[Nylock]

Just the evidence of my eyes. I spend a lot of time here, and I see far fewer homeless than I do in the USA or the UK.

Are these the same eyes that told you 'nothing special happening here' at the time lower manhattan lost all its power and most of the Atlantic seaboard of the US had the shit kicked out of it a couple of weeks ago?

 

[Greebo]

Finding some kind of a wreck to get some partial shelter is what people sleeping rough here do - they're still homeless according to any sane definition.

A girl (and I use that word deliberately, she was tiny and only just 16) in the Housing Association houseshare I was also in spent over a year sleeping in multistorey car parks because she felt safer there. Pretty much the first thing she did after getting her room was to let her (also homeless) mates doss down on her floor overnight several nights running. She nearly got evicted for it too.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Are these the same eyes that told you 'nothing special happening here' at the time lower manhattan lost all its power and most of the Atlantic seaboard of the US had the shit kicked out of it a couple of weeks ago?

Phil's eyes are always lovingly and longingly focussed on his own reflection. Once you realise this, his posts make much more sense and can be treated with the respect they deserve.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What do you think happened to a lot of beggars and rough sleepers in the West End who suddenly weren't visible there while the olympics and paralympics were on?

Or even for the Queen Mother's funeral

 

[Greebo]

Phil's eyes are always lovingly and longingly focussed on his own reflection.

Come off it, even Dwyer doesn't deserve that.