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Do you want AV for the UK? Cast your vote here!

AV referendum, May 2011

  • Total voters
    144
weltweit said:
Those voting for losing candidates get a second chance to influence the election
Click to expand...

Or, in other words, they get a first chance to influence the election, when otherwise they would have faced the trade off between wasting their vote or tactically voting
 
Why don't the Tories want this, if it would help them press forward their agenda.

That's what hasn't been explained.
 
articul8 said:
It would help every smaller party to be rewarded with its true degree of 1st preference support
Click to expand...
Rubbish, the Australian Greens only got a single seat (out of 150) but 11.76% of the vote, they weren't "rewarded" with anything like their degree of 1st preference support.

EDIT: figs for 2010 election
 
AV is a fundamentally unfair system where the fair one man one vote preference of the electorate expressed asin FPTP can be overcome by the second preferences of people who voted for marginal parties and who (and it is only them) get a second bite of the cherry.
 
butchersapron said:
This only works if you count the extreme right lib-dem party as of the centre left.

Why would you do that? Oh. yeah, i remember. Vote lib-dem
Click to expand...

You may not like it but most voters in the world outside u75 DO consider them as centre left. Less during the coalition, but do you think the coalition is going to last for ever?
 
redsquirrel said:
Well you made the claim, but this shows that the Tories were likely to have achieved majorities if past elections had been AV. Add to that the fact that a large proportion of those LD voters that would give their 2nd preference to Labour before last year are now likely to vote Labour first I'd say that AV is at least as likely to benefit the Tories as Labour.

What a bizarre point, the centre-left hasn't managed to get 50%+ of the vote for donkeys years either (or, depending of what definitions you're using, ever?) and the Labour vote at recent general elections has been in a similar range.
Click to expand...

Yours is a better link than the 'yougov' one I was going to post, and it clearly shows that most second preference votes would have gone to the lib dems from first choice tory and Labour voters, and those having the lib dems as their first choice, mostly then choosing Labour as their second choice. Apart from back in the 80s, it suggests that the tories would've come off worse in every case under AV.

You're right that many lib dem voters may give their first pref votes to Labour next time round, but I don't see how that would help the tories.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
Yours is a better link than the 'yougov' one I was going to post, and it clearly shows that most second preference votes would have gone to the lib dems from first choice tory and Labour voters, and those having the lib dems as their first choice, mostly then choosing Labour as their second choice. Apart from back in the 80s, it suggests that the tories would've come off worse in every case under AV.
Click to expand...
None of which makes your claim that the Tories can't have a majority under AV true.

You're right that many lib dem voters may give their first pref votes to Labour next time round, but I don't see how that would help the tories.
Click to expand...
I said that opposite, that at the next GE it's highly likely that most LibDem 2nd prefs will go to the Tories rather than Labour.
 
I didn't say they couldn't, I said they wouldn't be able to rely on it like they have in the past under fptp. Parties will still be able to achieve majorities in parliament with av, but if they do, it'll be a fairer reflection of the electorate's wishes instead of just being handed to them on a plate after achieving a mere 30 to 40% of the vote.

I don't agree that lib dem second prefs will go to the tories at the next election, why do you think that? If the coalition makes it that far then only their own diehards will probably vote for them anyway and traditionally they're far closer to Labour than the tories.

The effect av might have on the tory vote is only a side issue in the debate anyway.
 
redsquirrel said:
Rubbish, the Australian Greens only got a single seat (out of 150) but 11.76% of the vote, they weren't "rewarded" with anything like their degree of 1st preference support.

EDIT: figs for 2010 election
Click to expand...

You misunderstand what I was saying - the point is not that the Greens would get their due share of representation under AV (they wouldn't) but they would at least get to see how much support they actually have (they don't at present as the turnout is so low at the Euros, and their vote gets squeezed from tactical voting at GEs).
 
redsquirrel said:
I said that opposite, that at the next GE it's highly likely that most LibDem 2nd prefs will go to the Tories rather than Labour.
Click to expand...

Remember that the next GE is probably 4 years away. By then the LDs will have begun to re-establish their "equidistance" - in any case disaffected LDs voting for parties like the Greens will also have 2nd prefs that could benefit Labour.

Again - If the Tories think they stand to benefit, why are they all opposed. Seriously, they are disinterested in their party's fortunes?
 
Combustible said:
But it disadvantages them in other ways. Like by raising the threshold needed to win a seat.
Click to expand...

True enough - but given that they are nowhere near the threshold under FPTP in 99% of the seats that's not much of an immediate concern. AV would help the Greens target more effectively and build up local representation, keep momentum up for PR in the reformed Lords (where they do stand to make gains), and ultimately establish that the public has an appetite for a reformed system in the Commons (keeping the door open for future reform to a PR system).
 
weltweit said:
AV is a fundamentally unfair system where the fair one man one vote preference of the electorate expressed asin FPTP can be overcome by the second preferences of people who voted for marginal parties and who (and it is only them) get a second bite of the cherry.
Click to expand...

D'oh :facepalm: The whole point is that they haven't had a first "bite of the cherry" because their candidate has been eliminated before their vote counts.
 
Andrew Hertford said:
You may not like it but most voters in the world outside u75 DO consider them as centre left. Less during the coalition, but do you think the coalition is going to last for ever?
Click to expand...
What the party that is currently in power and enacting a sweeping range of cuts is centre-left. You're either a liar, an idiot or both.
 
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