Do you want AV for the UK? Cast your vote here!

[butchersapron]

On what basis do the preferences of those who chose to vote for say the Greens not deserve to be factored in to the final result?

On top of the pony, i want a lovely coalition...forever.

 

[articul8]

It will hurt it. A Yes vote won't.

You can say that your vote supports anything you like - in reality it props up the lib-dems and so the tories. You make this logic explicit above.

Not at all - I'm realistic enough to assume that the collapse of the coalition won't *automatically* benefit Labour. The Tories know this which is why they want a situation of 600 MPs elected by FPTP.

The boundary changes are now in place. The only way Labour can offset their effect is to introduce AV. The Tories are dead set against it.

Why help the Tories?

 

[weltweit]

On what basis do the preferences of those who chose to vote for say the Greens not deserve to be factored in to the final result?

But they are, the number of people who vote for the greens is recorded.

More to the point, why should their second preferences be valued as highly as other people's first preferences, that would give the greens supporters more influence than others participating in the election whose first preferences were compares with others seconds, and whose second preferences were not consulted - not at all.

We are talking about AV here not PR ... there is little chance under AV that the Greens will get much joy at the end of the process.

 

[Santino]

Why doesn't it matter what those who vote for eliminated candidates think about the rival merits of those in contention?

What you want is some form of voting that proportionately represents voters' preferences. Or you could support AV, which is sometimes less proportional than FPTP and will most likely lead to more centrist politics, less minority parties and more smug cunts in safe Tory-LibDem seats claiming to represent over 50% of their constituents.

 

[Proper Tidy]

But every vote will count!
You just don't get much say in who that vote is for

 

[articul8]

We are talking about AV here not PR ... there is little chance under AV that the Greens will get much joy at the end of the process.

They wouldn't get less than under FPTP - and Green voters would get the chance to influence the outcome. Frankly I'm in favour of one vote that counts per voter - which we don't have now. A preference is just that - not a vote. No-one gets more than one vote under AV.

 

[Proper Tidy]

We'll all have a chance to vote Lib Dem!

 

[articul8]

But every vote will count!
You just don't get much say in who that vote is for

The Greens (say) would see the true extent of their support *for the first time* and get to target them more effectively for local govt. seats. Which is no doubt one reason why the Greens are campaigning for a *yes* vote

 

[butchersapron]

Not at all - I'm realistic enough to assume that the collapse of the coalition won't *automatically* benefit Labour. The Tories know this which is why they want a situation of 600 MPs elected by FPTP.

The boundary changes are now in place. The only way Labour can offset their effect is to introduce AV. The Tories are dead set against it.

Why help the Tories?

So vote YES to keep the coalition going. A blow to your own logic that voting NO won't hurt it and a shocking expose of what your position means politically.

A vote YES is a vote for every single cut.

 

[butchersapron]

The Greens (say) would see the true extent of their support *for the first time* and get to target them more effectively for local govt. seats. Which is no doubt one reason why the Greens are campaigning for a *yes* vote

Wow, might we see some sort of disaggregation

 

[Santino]

The Greens (say) would see the true extent of their support *for the first time* and get to target them more effectively for local govt. seats. Which is no doubt one reason why the Greens are campaigning for a *yes* vote

And then AV will mean they'll never get another seat in parliament. Bravo.

 

[butchersapron]

They wouldn't get less than under FPTP - and Green voters would get the chance to influence the outcome. Frankly I'm in favour of one vote that counts per voter - which we don't have now. A preference is just that - not a vote. No-one gets more than one vote under AV.

Preference not votes now

I think you ran out of road a few threads back.

 

[Santino]

I want to be able to keep changing my preference until I get it right.

 

[articul8]

Ridiculous - if a NO vote won't end the coalition, how will a Yes help to perpetuate it?

A yes vote will help to kick out the Tories at the next GE. A No vote maximises the chances of rewarding them for the cuts.

 

[butchersapron]

Ridiculous - if a NO vote won't end the coalition, how will a Yes help to perpetuate it?

A yes vote will help to kick out the Tories at the next GE. A No vote maximises the chances of rewarding them for the cuts.

Er..a NO vote has the potential to end the coalition. A yes vote doesn't.

You get paid for this? How?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I want to be able to keep changing my preference until I get it right.

So do we, Santino, so do we.

/Nick Clegg

 

[articul8]

And then AV will mean they'll never get another seat in parliament. Bravo.

Which other seat are they likely to take under FPTP? Even Greens admit Brighton Pavillion was a fluke (whats more, they would still have taken it under AV - according to the British Election Survey)

 

[butchersapron]

I want to be able to keep changing my preference until I get it right.

Just keep voting till the lib-dems gets elected you tory.

 

[weltweit]

They wouldn't get less than under FPTP - and Green voters would get the chance to influence the outcome. Frankly I'm in favour of one vote that counts per voter - which we don't have now. A preference is just that - not a vote. No-one gets more than one vote under AV.

Simply not true, people voting for the popular candidates get just one vote, their first preference, but people voting for unpopular candidates get not just one first preference, but when that fails to win through, on the second count their second preferences are counted as if they were as important as first preferences.

Only those voting initially for losing candidates get the privilige of having their second preferences counted - counted with the same value as everyone else's first preferences.

What about everyone else's second preferences, why don't they get counted ??? why ???

 

[articul8]

Er..a NO vote has the potential to end the coalition.

Really?

 

[butchersapron]

Simply not true, people voting for the popular candidates get just one vote, their first preference, but people voting for unpopular candidates get not just one first preference, but when that fails to win through, on the second count their second preferences are counted as if they were as important as first preferences.

Only those voting initially for losing candidates get the privilige of having their second preferences counted - counted with the same value as everyone else's first preferences.

What about everyone else's second preferences, why don't they get counted ??? why ???

Well, did they vote lib-dem or not?

 

[Santino]

Which other seat are they likely to take under FPTP? Even Greens admit Brighton Pavillion was a fluke (whats more, they would still have taken it under AV - according to the British Election Survey)

What seat are they likely to take under AV?

 

[articul8]

What about everyone else's second preferences, why don't they get counted ??? why ???

Jesus wept. If your first preference is *counted* then there is no need to for preferences to be transferred. It is only when your 1st preference has been eliminated *before* it can be counted that this becomes necessary.

 

[articul8]

What seat are they likely to take under AV?

Who knows - as a transfer friendly party it is likely that there chances would, if anything, be greater than under FPTP, though it is true they might not get their full PR quota.

 

[stethoscope]

Doesn't the 'Green Left' group within the Greens want a no-vote, but it's the wider party that's going for a yes because they don't want to be tarnished with rather lame Tory accusations.

 

[weltweit]

Jesus wept. If your first preference is *counted* then there is no need to for preferences to be transferred. It is only when your 1st preference has been eliminated *before* it can be counted that this becomes necessary.

weep all you like ...

Those voting for losing candidates get a second chance to influence the election, a second chance which is denied others.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Cleggy Cleggy Cleggy
Can't you see
Sometimes your words just hypnotize me
And I just love your tory ways
This is what all the second preference voters say

 

[articul8]

The Green left - at their latest AGM in a phone box somewhere near Hove - decided that they would bloc with the Tory position. For reasons best known to themselves.

 

[Santino]

Who knows - as a transfer friendly party it is likely that there chances would, if anything, be greater than under FPTP, though it is true they might not get their full PR quota.

Can you provide one example of AV helping out a minority party? Just one.

 

[Santino]

The Green left - at their latest AGM in a phone box somewhere near Hove

Zing!