Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Of explaining REAL socialism to you? Virtually noneWhat is the fucking point....
Do you want AV for the UK? Cast your vote here!
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Proper Tidy
Arsed
Bennite, blates.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
even that much?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Tony or Hillary?
TBF in recent years, Tony Benn's been thoroughly decent.
And I still remember him on Question Time a few years ago reading out a list of the countries that have been bombed by the USA since the end of WW2. Good man.
TBF in recent years, Tony Benn's been thoroughly decent.
And I still remember him on Question Time a few years ago reading out a list of the countries that have been bombed by the USA since the end of WW2. Good man.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I do quite like Tone, I just think his politics are a bit shit. Well meaning, but shit.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's on 'our side', though, PT. He's alright. There are precious few of them. Jeremy Corbyn, maybe one or two others.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Yeah he is, well up to a point iykwim. In different circumstances, those of us seeking a transformation of society would come into conflict with those seeking a reformist parliamentary road. Such people would hold us back. But I agree, as it stands, he is an ally. And I do quite like the fella, met him once. I still think his politics are shit though.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Yes I'm a socialist, but like I say, I rarely venture into the political boards so you won't know my politics that well, but when I do I end up taking issue with those on the left who advocate violence on demos for example, and so people often assume I'm anti left.
As for fakery, that could do with it's own thread (and no, I can't be arsed) but basically I mean those bombastic 'socialists' who sit around talking the talk all day, go on the odd demo now and then but then drive around in a gas gussler or own shares in Exxon. I'm not refering to anyone specific on here, but you do get a whiff of it sometimes. I've known a few in the 'real' world like that.
Groucho Marxist sounds good to me.
In which case you don't sound much like a socialist...or maybe you're one of those other 'socialists'?
Somehow, I don't think you have it in you to be a Groucho Marxist.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
basically, Campaign Group MPs-Cryer, McDonnell etc
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
In which case you don't sound much like a socialist...or maybe you're one of those other 'socialists'?
Somehow, I don't think you have it in you to be a Groucho Marxist.
To quote an old cliche, socialism is a broad church and that's how it should be. I don't care what camp others might want to put me in, but for the record I was indeed a supporter of Tony Benn. I called myself a socialist then and I'm still one thirty years later. If you don't don't like it, then quite frankly my dear.....
Tony says "Yes to fairer votes" btw.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
To quote an old cliche, socialism is a broad church and that's how it should be. I don't care what camp others might want to put me in, but for the record I was indeed a supporter of Tony Benn. I called myself a socialist then and I'm still one thirty years later. If you don't don't like it, then quite frankly my dear.....
Tony says "Yes to fairer votes" btw.
I think you mean "Labour is a broad church". Perhaps you'd like to tell me what you mean by the word 'socialism'?
AV does not equal "fairer votes", that's a myth. Tony Benn can do what he likes. I don't much care.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Proportionality is not the only index of fairness
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
True you could use the majoritarian principle, but only a liar would try to claim that majoritarian and proportional systems were in principle the same.
Louis MacNeice
Proper Tidy
Arsed
See. I told you all. I'm fucking good.
How's the parliamentary road to socialism lol going Andrew?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Hello Andrew
I guess I'm too young to know a great deal about Tony Benn and his politics but he did write the book (Arguments for Socialism) that had the most profound effect politically on me as a teenager, convincing me at that time that socialism was the right way forward and arming me for the numerous arguments I would subsequently have in a thoroughly Thatcherite middle-class school. So for that, I'll always kind of love him.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
He's a nice bloke and he's genuine
When and where did you meet him PT?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
STWC conference, People's Assembly or whatever it was called. About four or five years ago.
I've met him two or three times, he's sound and his heart is in the right place.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're wriggling. Is fairness something that can be measured? That's a very market-oriented way of looking at it. No?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
He is-Ive always liked him
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Aye, true. I met him once when I was doing a Miner's gig on Newcastle Town Moor. Nice bloke.
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
Me too, I read Arguments for Socialism when it came out in 1980 and it had a huge influence on me, I'd hardly been interested in politics up until then. I saw him speak on many occasions, he could be a brilliant and inspiring orator. He had practically the whole of Fleet Street out to destroy him for many years, but though it all and he remained dignified, focused and true to his beliefs.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
It's just a shame he is fundamentally wrong
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
seconded.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he is a stansgatesian
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