Do you support an Austria-style lockdown of those not fully vaccinated against Covid-19?

[weltweit]

It is now mainly unvaccinated people that are going into hospital and costing lots of resources in intensive care. Had they been vaccinated they wouldn't in the main be in hospital so yes I support their vaccination.

 

[IC3D]

Loon.

Definitely

 

[elbows]

Note that the USA CDC have dropped the herd immunity goal. And of course some experts think this is reasonable because of how complicated the reality is, whilst others fret that the bullshit simplified herd immunity stuff was helping motivate peiple to get vaccinated and they are uneasy about it being dropped.

CDC shifts pandemic goals away from reaching herd immunity

Experts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have set aside herd immunity as a national target for ending the pandemic.

www.latimes.com

The prospects for meeting a clear herd-immunity target are “very complicated,” said Dr. Jefferson Jones, a medical officer on the CDC’s COVID-19 Epidemiology Task Force.

“Thinking that we’ll be able to achieve some kind of threshold where there’ll be no more transmission of infections may not be possible,” Jones acknowledged last week to members of a panel that advises the CDC on vaccines.

To Dr. Oliver Brooks, a member of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, it was a sobering new message, with potentially worrisome effects.

With just 58.5% of all Americans fully vaccinated, “we do need to increase” the uptake of COVID-19 shots, said Brooks, chief medical officer of Watts Healthcare in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, he said, Jones’ unexpected admission “almost makes you less motivated to get more people vaccinated.”

“It’s a science-communications problem,” said Dr. John Brooks, chief medical officer for the CDC’s COVID-19 response.

“We said, based on our experience with other diseases, that when you get up to 70% to 80%, you often get herd immunity,” he said.

But the SARS-CoV-2 virus didn’t get the memo.

“It has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, and it’s repeatedly challenged us,” he said. “It’s impossible to predict what herd immunity will be in a new pathogen until you reach herd immunity.”

The CDC’s new approach will reflect this uncertainty. Instead of specifying a vaccination target that promises an end to the pandemic, public health officials hope to redefine success in terms of new infections and deaths — and they’ll surmise that herd immunity has been achieved when both remain low for a sustained period.

 

[IC3D]

It is now mainly unvaccinated people that are going into hospital and costing lots of resources in intensive care. Had they been vaccinated they wouldn't in the main be in hospital so yes I support their vaccination.

This isn't true wards a having outbreaks every day amoungst fully vaccinated patients causing chaos right now and ICU has mostly non COVID patients it will hit the news very soon I'm sure

 

[gosub]

Loon.

not so much . Remarkable what was done in the timeframe, but the 2.0's will be better

It is now mainly unvaccinated people that are going into hospital and costing lots of resources in intensive care. Had they been vaccinated they wouldn't in the main be in hospital so yes I support their vaccination.

Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact 35%. unvaccinated

 

[elbows]

It is now mainly unvaccinated people that are going into hospital and costing lots of resources in intensive care. Had they been vaccinated they wouldn't in the main be in hospital so yes I support their vaccination.

That isnt true. It was the picture that was painted for a while, but when it comes to England at best its out of date, and at worst its misleading shit of the 'oversimplify and happily mislead to encourage vaccine uptake' variety. It may still apply to a greater extent to intensive care than it does for broader hospitalisation, but thats partly down to which age groups get the intensive care. And Im not always happy with the quantity and nature of available statistics, but I will dig something up later to indicate why I say that what you have written isnt true. One complication is that boosters obviously have some sort of impact, further muddling the waters/analysis of the real data, especially when that data lags behind a little.

 

[elbows]

not so much . Remarkable what was done in the timeframe, but the 2.0's will be better

Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact 35%.

Oh good thanks for providing that link, saves me digging further into the stats right now.

 

[Pickman's model]

I voted strongly support since it's the hardest line option available but I would prefer holding them down and forcibly vaccinating them or failing that little yellow stars on their clothing since most of them seem to be expecting that anyway.

scratch a liberal...

 

[cupid_stunt]

BTW this thread was about a lockdown, not the vaccines, we have plenty of other threads where they are discussed.

 

[Yossarian]

Its working class people that would and are having this non vaccine pushed on them by bosses and Tories. So I'm against it.

As things currently stand, working class people who are vulnerable to COVID, or who live with people who are, are having highly infectious colleagues pushed on them by bosses and Tories.

 

[gosub]

BTW this thread was about a lockdown, not the vaccines, we have plenty of other threads where they are discussed.

Anyone who has n't had the vaccine, facing an apartheid is going to bring up effectiveness of the vaccine

 

[Yossarian]

I wish people would drop the "apartheid" comparisons - the purpose of the South African system was not to encourage more people to choose to be white.

 

[editor]

not so much . Remarkable what was done in the timeframe, but the 2.0's will be better

Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact 35%. unvaccinated

The important bit:

The vaccines substantially, but not perfectly, protect these people from severe illness. As a result, some still become ill enough to need treatment in hospital. And this small share of a large population is now enough to make up a majority of hospital admissions.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Anyone who has n't had the vaccine, facing an apartheid is going to bring up effectiveness of the vaccine

No one on this thread is facing an 'apartheid', which is a fucking insulting term to use, Griff was rightly rounded on just the other day for using that term.

The effectiveness of the vaccines have proven to be good, not perfect, but good. But, this thread was not supposed to be about vaccines, there's plenty of other threads for that, it's a shame that people can't respect the editor's OP and question.

 

[elbows]

No one on this thread is facing an 'apartheid', which is a fucking insulting term to use, Griff was rightly rounded on just the other day for using that term.

The effectiveness of the vaccines have proven to be good, not perfect, but good. But, this thread was not supposed to be about vaccines, there's plenty of other threads for that, it's a shame that people can't respect the editor's OP and question.

Its a thread about lockdowns for unvaccinated people, and as a result is it not reasonable to expect to avoid discussions about what vaccines can and cannot achieve, and what the risks are of transmission, hospitalisation etc in vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. Because such aspects are quite the factors when it comes to thinking about the merits and flaws of a 'lockdown the unvaccinated' policy.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

How would you enforce such a lockdown? My suggestion is that the vaccine be amended so that all those who have had one jab should display a bright blue nose, those who have had two a red nose, and a pink nose for the booster. I can think of no other easy way to identify at a glance those who might be breaking the lockdown. Unless I've missed something obvious.

 

[MickiQ]

I voted strongly support mainly because it would be funny to see the reaction if the government announced it.

Yes but you're just a contrary bastard who enjoys shit stirring

 

[editor]

To be honest, I'm pretty much in favour of anything that winds up the kind of cunts who harass schoolchildren in the street with aggressive anti-vaxx scaremongering.

 

[elbows]

How would you enforce such a lockdown? My suggestion is that the vaccine be amended so that all those who have had one jab should display a bright blue nose, those who have had two a red nose, and a pink nose for the booster. I can think of no other easy way to identify at a glance those who might be breaking the lockdown. Unless I've missed something obvious.

They wouldnt seek to do it at a glance, they would be relying on checking peoples papers, 'vaccine passports' for various settings etc. Since they already switched to a lockdown for all in Austria, we wont get to see that play out anyway.

Its quite hard to extrapolate such concepts to the UK and England especially, since the UK government didnt even want to do the most basic version of vaccine passports for England. And we get all the usual rhetoric about our 'consent-based form of policing' which is as much about not actually having the resources to pro-actively police certain measures as anything else. If our case numbers, hospitalisations etc dont cross a certain threshold this winter, then we probably arent going to find out how the UK would take such things further.

 

[SpookyFrank]

To be honest, I'm pretty much in favour of anything that winds up the kind of cunts who harass schoolchildren in the street with aggressive anti-vaxx scaremongering.

They're gonna be bitter and angry no matter what. Who I worry about is the people who are maybe at risk of developing full-blown covidiocy and could be tipped over the edge by any authoritarian measures to encourage vaccine uptake. At present with the vaccines (almost) entirely optional it's been hard for the loons to gain too much ground with their scaremongering schtick.

Our current vaccination rates are pretty good. Not perfect, but considering the ever-dwindling adherence to masks, social distancing etc still pretty damn goood. I don't think we should be do anything that could fuck that up.

 

[SpookyFrank]

How would you enforce such a lockdown?

The same way they enforced all the others, ie not at all.

 

[marty21]

Part of me wants a lock down for the unvaccinated, I want all this to be over, soon be 2 years since it all kicked off. I do worry about the precedent it would set, although I'd love to see raging anti vax heads losing it tbf.

 

[pug]

I fully support a permanent lockdown for all those who choose to be unvaccinated their internet should be disconnected too.

 

[gosub]

No one on this thread is facing an 'apartheid', which is a fucking insulting term to use, Griff was rightly rounded on just the other day for using that term.

The effectiveness of the vaccines have proven to be good, not perfect, but good. But, this thread was not supposed to be about vaccines, there's plenty of other threads for that, it's a shame that people can't respect the editor's OP and question.

Nah.

I'm vaccinated. My life, my choice. And I'm comfortable with all my reasoning on being so. But no way this would n't create a two tier society, and how is that not devicive?


And to what end? i

 

[gosub]

The important bit:

True. But I know I won't get a 3rd shot of AZ on Sunday. Not that it wasn't a vacine when I had it twice previously

 

[LDC]

Nah.

I'm vaccinated. My life, my choice. And I'm comfortable with all my reasoning on being so. But no way this would n't create a two tier society, and how is that not devicive?


And to what end? i

It's not permanent though! It's a short period of 10 days, likely to encourage vaccination and also to slow spread. I'm against it but it's not as dramatic as some make out.

 

[gosub]

It's not permanent though! It's a short period of 10 days, likely to encourage vaccination and also to slow spread. I'm against it but it's not as dramatic as some make out.

So impact on 8 working days then. for 6% playing ball and 24 % not playing at all....Thats an impact.
Concetrate on getting the 21.3 up


off Covid UK: coronavirus cases, deaths and vaccinations today

 

[Riklet]

Definitely against this. There are better ways to address the issue.

Even if it did help short term I think it opens doors to lots of bad stuff politically in the future. I'm also not convinced that strong coercive measures are effective in getting people to get vaccinated.

 

[gosub]

They wouldnt seek to do it at a glance, they would be relying on checking peoples papers, 'vaccine passports' for various settings etc. Since they already switched to a lockdown for all in Austria, we wont get to see that play out anyway.

Its quite hard to extrapolate such concepts to the UK and England especially, since the UK government didnt even want to do the most basic version of vaccine passports for England. And we get all the usual rhetoric about our 'consent-based form of policing' which is as much about not actually having the resources to pro-actively police certain measures as anything else. If our case numbers, hospitalisations etc dont cross a certain threshold this winter, then we probably arent going to find out how the UK would take such things further.

Talking a big bod in virology locally a couple of weeks back, who was calling foul over the numbers he was seeing. Long chat, like another one, and I owe him a pint over a bet on the rugby. Had Wales losing to NZ by 40

 

[elbows]

not so much . Remarkable what was done in the timeframe, but the 2.0's will be better

Most people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 are vaccinated - Full Fact 35%. unvaccinated

I got round to digging out the latest raw numbers. Obviously this picture will be affected by boosters going forwards and this version of the data doesnt shed any light on that at this time.

Data is from the weekly vaccine surveillance report. https://assets.publishing.service.g...34383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf





Broadly speaking this is the expected pattern. When you have a high proportion of people vaccinated, its those people that will still end up forming the brunt of the burden on hospitals etc, so there is no point kidding ourselves that the burden can be eliminated only by focussing on the unvaccinated. But as we see with things like positive case numbers in younger groups where less vaccination has been available or sought, the unvaccinated can obviously generate big numbers too. Need to deal with both, which means not restricting policy options to the unvaccinated only.