Do you now support military action against Syria's government?

[dylanredefined]

It was a very strong threat, made for a variety of purposes including trying to get them to behave in certain ways, not a declaration that they would be attacked under all circumstances. We know which countries the USA has long regarded as enemies, and Syria is on that list. But in case you didn't notice he also mentioned Cuba in the same speech, and they are not about to attack Cuba. On the other hand, Libya which was also mentioned was of course eventually attacked despite the fact that it responded in the desired manner to the issue he claimed at the time was central to becoming a US target, i.e. WMD.

That was more to do with the population revolting and Qaddafi bombing them.
He had been welcomed back into the international community and everyone was gearing up to buy his oil and sell him new weapons when the people decided they had had enough of him. The West reluctantly joined in their is even less enthusiasm for Syria. As Assads a horrible dictator and the rebels are little better. Either side wins their is going to be a massacre.

 

[Tankus]

How "embarrassed" does Paddy feel now ?

 

[DotCommunist]

That was more to do with the population revolting and Qaddafi bombing them.
He had been welcomed back into the international community and everyone was gearing up to buy his oil and sell him new weapons when the people decided they had had enough of him. The West reluctantly joined in their is even less enthusiasm for Syria. As Assads a horrible dictator and the rebels are little better. Either side wins their is going to be a massacre.

reluctantly my chocolate starfish, they couldn't fucking wait. Soon as there was blood in the water.

 

[J Ed]

How "embarrassed" does Paddy feel now ?

It's always a tough one when your team falls out of the premier league, hopefully he can buck up and realise that bombing the shit out of foreigners in order to replace autocrats with worse autocrats amenable to you is a game of two halves and you just have to get involved really

 

[Kid_Eternity]

How "embarrassed" does Paddy feel now ?

Probably not enough. A so called Liberal Democrat dismayed by a democratic result? You couldn't make it up...

 

[dylanredefined]

reluctantly my chocolate starfish, they couldn't fucking wait. Soon as there was blood in the water.

Well has any government not been keen on a little war? They were slightly less keen on this one. If his population wasn't revolting they would have happily dealt with him.

 

[elbows]

Regarding Gaddafi, various European countries were happier to deal with him than the USA were, where considerably more ill will remained over Lockerbie. The tories also seemed to be a tad unhappier at dealing with him than new labour were. Either way his lack of real friends and his reputation for being awkward and unpredictable to deal with came back to bite him. Once the uprising got going there was very little hesitation.

 

[DotCommunist]

Regarding Gaddafi, various European countries were happier to deal with him than the USA were, where considerably more ill will remained over Lockerbie. The tories also seemed to be a tad unhappier at dealing with him than new labour were. Either way his lack of real friends and his reputation for being awkward and unpredictable to deal with came back to bite him. Once the uprising got going there was very little hesitation.

I don't think anyone in power forgot that he gave PIRA enough plastique to make them a very serious threat. And all the guns.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Brown Moses has posted on the evidence currently available about the August 21 attack: http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/a-detailed-summary-of-evidence-on.html

 

[elbows]

Brown Moses has posted on the evidence currently available about the August 21 attack: http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/a-detailed-summary-of-evidence-on.html

Interesting stuff that I shall keep an eye on, though not enough to convince me one way or another. Food for thought all the same, especially some of the other posts on that blog.

I expect one of the largest barriers in peoples minds that prevents them buying the idea that the regime did it is why the regime would have indulged in such attacks at such a moment. It'squite the question, and I've not seen it tackled too well so far. I'm still scratching my head over it, and only have a set of half-baked possibilities so far. If its not just propaganda, I'd certainly like to know more about the evidence of a panicked phone call between the regime and one of their units.

 

[TomUS]

Interesting stuff that I shall keep an eye on, though not enough to convince me one way or another. Food for thought all the same, especially some of the other posts on that blog.

I expect one of the largest barriers in peoples minds that prevents them buying the idea that the regime did it is why the regime would have indulged in such attacks at such a moment. It'squite the question, and I've not seen it tackled too well so far. I'm still scratching my head over it, and only have a set of half-baked possibilities so far. If its not just propaganda, I'd certainly like to know more about the evidence of a panicked phone call between the regime and one of their units.

I've heard from the mainstream media that the rebs had held those suburbs for a long time & the regime had been unable to dislodge them & had been taking heavy casualties.

Would indeed be interesting to see/hear the communications between Syrian units at the time of the attack. Hope Obama & co provides this but it better be very convincing considering the "intelligence" about Iraq.

 

[Casually Red]

That was more to do with the population revolting and Qaddafi bombing them.
He had been welcomed back into the international community and everyone was gearing up to buy his oil and sell him new weapons when the people decided they had had enough of him. The West reluctantly joined in their is even less enthusiasm for Syria. As Assads a horrible dictator and the rebels are little better. Either side wins their is going to be a massacre.

if youve any evidence whatsoever he bombed protestors feel free to disclose it . And reluctant my backside . They turned a motion authorising a no fly zone into a carte blanche to bomb Libya to smithereens for over 9 months, acting as Al Qaedas airforce . Thats what toppled him , not the people .

And its also why Russia and China are vetoing like fuck at the UN this time round, after the manner in which a no fly zone resolution was subverted into a green light for regime change and the killing of a sovereign head of state .

 

[sunny jim]

if youve any evidence whatsoever he bombed protestors feel free to disclose it . And reluctant my backside . They turned a motion authorising a no fly zone into a carte blanche to bomb Libya to smithereens for over 9 months, acting as Al Qaedas airforce . Thats what toppled him , not the people .

And its also why Russia and China are vetoing like fuck at the UN this time round, after the manner in which a no fly zone resolution was subverted into a green light for regime change and the killing of a sovereign head of state .

This.

 

[elbows]

I doubt China and Russia were naive enough not to know what a 'no fly zone' meant in Libya, it always means a 'we fly zone' and therefore a 'we bomb zone'.

I've never seen any evidence that he bombed protesters, and that was quite a masterstroke of propaganda at the time. If he bombed anything, it was probably arms dumps that had fallen into rebel hands, and possibly some runways that also ended up in rebel territory.

Compared to other NATO etc bombing campaigns they didn't totally smash the country to bits, and civilian casualties from the bombings did not resemble the sorts of horrors seen with the likes of 'shock and awe' in Iraq. Nor is it sufficient to describe the rebels as simply being Al Qaeda, since they comprised of many different groups with a few different backers and different ideas about how Islamic Libya should be post-Gaddafi. Thats not to excuse what happened though, and I very much regret the difficulty in sustaining a conversation about Libya on u75 in the last year or so.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Well, would you believe it? Regime change is on the cards and Obama has 90 days of potential bombing at his disposal.

 

[TomUS]

Well, would you believe it? Regime change is on the cards and Obama has 90 days of potential bombing at his disposal.

It won't be regime change. It'll be cruise missile strikes on facilities where everything of military value has been removed. It will achieve nothing.

 

[Sprocket.]

It won't be regime change. It'll be cruise missile strikes on facilities where everything of military value has been removed. It will achieve nothing.

Apart from the pointless, violent deaths of innocent people who have had nothing whatsoever to do with any deaths.

 

[teqniq]

It won't be regime change. It'll be cruise missile strikes on facilities where everything of military value has been removed. It will achieve nothing.

Syrian regime moves prisoners to likely targets of western military strikes

 

[TomUS]

Syrian regime moves prisoners to likely targets of western military strikes

And the world will then be shown video of the "civilian" casualties. This thing will turn out badly for everyone except these guys...

Shares of defense giant Raytheon have surged as the debate over a military response to Syria’s use of chemical weapons has raged around the world.

The Waltham-based manufacturer of the Tomahawk cruise missiles, expected to be used in any strike on Syria, saw its stock hit a 52-week high last week at $77.93 per share, and has stayed near that high, closing yesterday at $75.41. The stock hit its peak Aug. 23, the day news broke of the chemical attack by the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

http://bostonherald.com/business/business_markets/2013/08/raytheons_shares_boom

 

[sunny jim]

According to this the Syrians seem to be well armed with sophisticated weapons supplied from Russia

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36076.htm

 

[TomUS]

According to this the Syrians seem to be well armed with sophisticated weapons supplied from Russia

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36076.htm

I wouldn't take that article very seriously. It's from a Syrian source. And it says the P-800 Yakhont anti-ship missile has a range of 180 miles. The Tomahawk has a range of over 1000 miles.

 

[Casually Red]

And the world will then be shown video of the "civilian" casualties.

there will be no shortage of civilian casualties , with no need for quotation marks, just like there always have been . Its why Bradley mannings in jail, for letting the world see them and the animals cheering as they did it .

 

[Casually Red]

Well, would you believe it? Regime change is on the cards and Obama has 90 days of potential bombing at his disposal.

it looks like he could well have a lot longer than 90 days, kerry has indicated that a further 60 days will be triggered eeverytime he says theres been a CW attack . And the saudis are funding it on condition they do what they did Libya and Iraq . Destroy the place basically .

 

[likesfish]

I don't think anyone in power forgot that he gave PIRA enough plastique to make them a very serious threat. And all the guns.

Plus every other Group all over the world really suprised some animal rights types didnt get a shipment form the mad bastard letting him into the tent to piss out seemed a better idea than any other idea.

 

[Tankus]

Got to wonder what the Iranians have been giving him ?

They have been playing about with super cavitation torpedoes for years , based on the Russian Shkval , 200knts plus and very hard to defend against , they had ambitions to bag a carrier in the Gulf of Hormuz a few years back
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/supercavitating-torpedo



Cant see the Americans keeping it short if they lose a ship or two

 

[Casually Red]

i doubt very much the yanks will either come that close or the syrians will go to sea looking for them . If The Iranians react in Hormuz it could be a different matter there though .

 

[weltweit]

Do I support military action against Syria?

The true answer to this question is, it does not matter, it makes not an iota of difference if I am pro or against, the powers that be in the world will do whatever they want.

 

[Streathamite]

How "embarrassed" does Paddy feel now ?

Paddy lost his capacity for embarrassment yonks ago

 

[Streathamite]

it looks like he could well have a lot longer than 90 days, kerry has indicated that a further 60 days will be triggered eeverytime he says theres been a CW attack . And the saudis are funding it on condition they do what they did Libya and Iraq . Destroy the place basically .

I would be astonished if this doesn'tr go on for a whole lot longer than 90 days, with eventual boots-on-ground triggered by the slightest pretext/excuse (probably a 'manufactured' one).

 

[Streathamite]

if youve any evidence whatsoever he bombed protestors feel free to disclose it . And reluctant my backside . They turned a motion authorising a no fly zone into a carte blanche to bomb Libya to smithereens for over 9 months, acting as Al Qaedas airforce . Thats what toppled him , not the people .

And its also why Russia and China are vetoing like fuck at the UN this time round, after the manner in which a no fly zone resolution was subverted into a green light for regime change and the killing of a sovereign head of state .

precisely - on both counts