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Do you now support military action against Syria's government?

Do you now support military action against Syria's government?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • No

    Votes: 162 89.5%

  • Total voters
    181
I would be astonished if this doesn'tr go on for a whole lot longer than 90 days, with eventual boots-on-ground triggered by the slightest pretext/excuse (probably a 'manufactured' one).

Its a certainty, but its possible the boots on the ground in this case could be turkish, Saudi and even Israeli in different areas rather than American . Once the syrian arab army has been sufficiently degraded for them to move in on the pretext of securing weapons, protecting them from jihadists etc . I envisage them more keen to be seen using proxies rather than their own. The way I see it is theyll escalate from missile strikes to airstrikes once air defences are sufficiently degraded, using as you say some pretext thatll easily be manufactured during the ensuing chaos .
 
Its a certainty, but its possible the boots on the ground in this case could be turkish, Saudi and even Israeli in different areas rather than American . Once the syrian arab army has been sufficiently degraded for them to move in on the pretext of securing weapons, protecting them from jihadists etc . I envisage them more keen to be seen using proxies rather than their own. The way I see it is theyll escalate from missile strikes to airstrikes once air defences are sufficiently degraded, using as you say some pretext thatll easily be manufactured during the ensuing chaos .
I agree with all of that except the Israelis (more likely Turkey plus compliant Arab league proxies - Qataris, Bahrainis, kuwaitis, on the grounds of favours being called in by Unkie Sam). The bit about missiles -> defences f-ed -> airforce strikes is especially plausible.
 
I agree with all of that except the Israelis (more likely Turkey plus compliant Arab league proxies - Qataris, Bahrainis, kuwaitis, on the grounds of favours being called in by Unkie Sam). The bit about missiles -> defences f-ed -> airforce strikes is especially plausible.

Im not talking about the Israelis taking over Syria, more like a major incursion in one zone , rubbing noses in it, flying the flag for the folks back home, seizing more territory as a temporary security buffer..because obviously theres jihadists, chemical weapons and all sorts running about... and then using that as a bargaining chip down the line with whatever puppet the yanks instal. Its no more unthinkable than their current occupation of the Golan heights, which are just as Syrian as Damascus itself .

Actually I think its a Texan with a Syrian passport if memory serves me correct..the next president they have in mind .

The way I see it the sharks are circling round a wounded Syria and just waiting to go in for the kill once its weakened enough . The zionists are very much one of those sharks and I cant see them letting an historic opportunity like that pass . Planting their flag on Syrian soil will send a massive psychological message to the Palestinians and Hezbollah alike . You are finally beaten, we won . Theres no hope for you now .
As well as playing massively to the jingoistic scum at home .

As I was saying in that Gorbachev exchange, the name of the game is total victory and not missing the opportunity to rub your defeated enemys nose in it .
 
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could well be, the turkish islamists are the most vociferous international voice calling for action . And with the defeat of political islam in Egypt its essential for them to wipe Assad out .
 
could well be, the turkish islamists are the most vociferous international voice calling for action . And with the defeat of political islam in Egypt its essential for them to wipe Assad out .

My thoughts too.
Turkey controlled the region for many years and it would be helpful to the US as a NATO ally for Turkey to regain some control in the region as a more digestible solution for sorting out problems in the area for America, than having to get Israel to do the whipping of an errant country as they have in the past.
 
Of course the way Israel is throwing out immigrants it leads one to think they might have a liking to a bit of expansionism too,
a bit more living space, so to say.
 
Im not talking about the Israelis taking over Syria, more like a major incursion in one zone , rubbing noses in it, flying the flag for the folks back home, seizing more territory as a temporary security buffer..because obviously theres jihadists, chemical weapons and all sorts running about... and then using that as a bargaining chip down the line with whatever puppet the yanks instal. Its no more unthinkable than their current occupation of the Golan heights, which are just as Syrian as Damascus itself .

Actually I think its a Texan with a Syrian passport if memory serves me correct..the next president they have in mind .

The way I see it the sharks are circling round a wounded Syria and just waiting to go in for the kill once its weakened enough . The zionists are very much one of those sharks and I cant see them letting an historic opportunity like that pass . Planting their flag on Syrian soil will send a massive psychological message to the Palestinians and Hezbollah alike . You are finally beaten, we won . Theres no hope for you now .
As well as playing massively to the jingoistic scum at home .

As I was saying in that Gorbachev exchange, the name of the game is total victory and not missing the opportunity to rub your defeated enemys nose in it .
actually yes, I think that's spot on
 
My thoughts too.
Turkey controlled the region for many years and it would be helpful to the US as a NATO ally for Turkey to regain some control in the region as a more digestible solution for sorting out problems in the area for America, than having to get Israel to do the whipping of an errant country as they have in the past.
tbf, the Ottomans did. not quite the same thing (Ottomans were anatolian in origin)
 
tbf, the Ottomans did. not quite the same thing (Ottomans were anatolian in origin)

True, my point was that Turkey would be very useful for the United States to put in place as a force to keep the warring factions in check rather than getting Israel to flatten everything.
 
Turkey controlled the region for many years and it would be helpful to the US as a NATO ally for Turkey to regain some control in the region as a more digestible solution for sorting out problems in the area for America, than having to get Israel to do the whipping of an errant country as they have in the past.
The Evolving Landscape in Syria and Implications for Greater Kurdistan
huffingtonpost. 09/06/20
While most Syrian Kurds are Sunni Muslims, their staunchly secular politics pit them against the al-Qaeda affiliated groups seeking the creation of an Islamic emirate in Syria. Ethnic concerns, including the rebels' apparent hostility to Kurdish self-determination, exacerbate the division. Reports of al-Qaeda fighters beheading Kurds and issuing calls for their extermination will only further expand the PYD's support base from secular Kurds.

As the majority of Syria's oil and gas reserves exist in northeastern Syria, the stakes are high for both sides. The geopolitical ramifications of an established autonomous Kurdish region--or independent Kurdish state--in northeastern Syria are complicated. From Turkey's vantage point, a PKK-run Syrian Kurdistan would constitute a major setback, given the likelihood that the PKK would utilize the territory to launch attacks against the Turkish state (especially if the ongoing Turkey-PKK peace talks fail and the ruling leaders in Damascus and Ankara remain in power for the near to medium term). Turkish officials are naturally concerned about the prospects of Turkey's own Kurdish minority demanding greater autonomy from Ankara after being inspired by their Kurdish counterparts in Syria. That said, after the Gulf War, Turkey feared a semi-autonomous Kurdish state in northern Iraq, yet the KRG eventually became one of Turkey's closest Middle Eastern allies.
I wonder if USA will back the Kurds this time.
 
Of course the way Israel is throwing out immigrants it leads one to think they might have a liking to a bit of expansionism too,
a bit more living space, so to say.

they crave it, along with whatever water and energy resources are out there.
My thoughts too.
Turkey controlled the region for many years and it would be helpful to the US as a NATO ally for Turkey to regain some control in the region as a more digestible solution for sorting out problems in the area for America, than having to get Israel to do the whipping of an errant country as they have in the past.

there was an American commentator on RT tonight..crosstalk.. who was making the point Ive been making over the past while . Now these hostile neighbours have completely shown their hand and failed to unseat Assad, with his army making a comeback, Qatar sent to the naughty corner and political islam a dead duck in Egypt and everywhere else, stirrings of arab nationalism on the rise again from Egypt to the Golan...Syrias enemies are shitting themselves and fearful of retribution . And Erdogan will have a great deal to fear if Assad should survive this . Theres no way of repairing what he did .
Thats the primary reason for his all out diplomatic offensive demanding intervention . Keeping his own carcass safe from retribution .
 
another thing I noticed tonight . Putin has gone right out on a limb stating categorically not that he suspects the chemical attack was a provocation ,but that it definitely was one . A statement of fact that he cant backtrack on or evade . Hes putting his entire international credibility on that direct assertion , not having a flunky do it for him or leaving a verbal backdoor open .

http://rt.com/news/putin-g20-syria-meeting-511/

Personally I dont believe a man like him would leave himself exposed to possible ridicule like that if he wasnt very sure there were facts out there to back his position up . Hes also personally dismissed John Kerry as a liar . Personally said that to the media, called him a liar .If hes proved wrong hed have to apologise . Again I dont believe Putin would leave himself open like that unless he was very sure of his position . Hes a trained and decorated KGB man . I dont believe hed utter a word in public that could leave himself politically or diplomatically exposed . And in all these instances his words seem carefully chosen .

I also noticed that during the G20 footage he had Hollande sitting right beside him at one of the conferences. Hollande got off the plane in Russia stating categorically France will be backing the US up in military action . Hes getting back on the plane saying France will be waiting for the UN results. That could be quite significant .

g20_thisone-440x238.jpg


Also saw reports tonight were Russian sources have been claiming they and the UN have proof from a defector , including documentary proof, that one of Saddams former henchmen in the chemical weapons business has been the source of the rebels chemical weapons. And that this has been traced to that attack in Alleppo some months back were a number of syrian troops were killed. And were Russia claims all the components including the rockets and detonators were home made. Apparently this evidence has been the source for Carla Del Pontes previous assertions that as far as the UN are concerned its the rebels whove been behind the previous chemical attacks.

These are just observations of my own but I feel they could be significant .
 
Think you have a strong point about Putin and not making statements like that without back up...

we have to remember that while there was one set of UN inspectors bollocking about basically on the chemical weapons issue and using unacceptable preconditions to avoid going into Syria for months, at the same time theres been another one quietly working away in the background on war crimes in general, and the use of chemical weapons by either side falls into their remit as well .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188

As is noted in that report Del Pontes assertion was unusual in its forthrightness and her superiors pulled her back into line, shes been quiet since . But Ive a feeling its findings could well be related to Putins apparent sense of making his assertions on very solid ground . Russia itself has been very transparent about the evidence its inspectors collated, establishing a chain of custody and all the rest. Its findings have been very detailed , unlike the wests evidence which remains shrouded in secrecy and an apparent determination not to let the relevant UN bodies examine any of it . The evidence that Russia has made public concerning home made chemical weapons projectiles that killed dozens of syrian troops and civilians seems to have been backed up by Del Pontes teams findings.
While the wests remains something nobody is allowed to examine and would appear to have been largely provided courtesy of Mossad .

At the very least it would appear that Kerry and Obamas assertion that the rebels dont possess the capacity to unleash a chemical weapons barrage is a demonstrable lie. And thats just for starters.
 
and this is interesting . Hollandes announcement that France would wait for the UN report is definitely the first time hes said that . Its a major policy shift and seems to have been a direct result of a coversation he had with someone in Russia . Its such an about face that even his own foreign minister didnt seem to have a clue, as he was completely dismissing the UN just hours earlier . So that looks very much like something of significance has happened . Its definitely not a decision hes made in consultation with his own people . Strikes me as important .

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=235&sid=26745367&s_cid=rss-235
 
Think you have a strong point about Putin and not making statements like that without back up...
yes and no, it might well be the case, but Russias interests in Syria are so great that Putin would be obliged to do everything and anything to stop this attack going ahead, and as the evidence will most likely never be conclusive then strong language is all that remains.
Hes a trained and decorated KGB man . I dont believe hed utter a word in public that could leave himself politically or diplomatically exposed .
I have to agree with Delroy on the point of CRs pro-Putin line being way too much: simply the KGB are cunts, which makes Putin a cunt and a liar. Senior politicians of all stripes say all kinds of shit, particularly "decorated KGB men".
Which is not to say the US version is true.
 
cunt he may well be , but the fact is hes a well trained cunt . Particularly in the business of not giving anything away that can compromise, undermine and embarass you later . Which was my sole reason for bringing that up in the first place .Its a simple statement of fact to illustrate a point and observation and a fact should never be a source of annoyance to anyone when maturely discussing a subject . I felt the point was relevant to the issue at hand regardless of Delroys carry on.

Anyways , another interesting factoid about the weapons inspectors . A possible explanation for their tardiness in requesting access to the site until days later could well be that the USA was applying pressure behind the scenes to prevent them even going there in the first place . Turns out John Kerry was putting the screws on Ban Ki Moon , actually demanding he pull the inspectors out of Syria . He didnt want them going anywhere near the site..or anywhere near Syria for that matter .

In the immediate aftermath of the suspected chemical weapons attack, America pushed in the Security Council for a statement condemning the attack and calling for "full and unfettered" access for weapons inspectors - a move blocked by the Russians.

Only a few days later, however, the White House described the inspectors' work as "redundant," because US intelligence pointed already to the Assad regime's culpability.
US Secretary of State John Kerry, in a phone call to Mr Ban, even pressed for the team's immediate withdrawal from Damascus abruptly ending its two-week mission - a request the secretary general resisted.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23967577

It was after that refusal to withdraw them that persons unkown who apparently shared Kerrys desire for the inspectors to stay away started lobbing mortars into the vicinity of their hotel, and then the next morning methodically disabled the lead UN vehicle with sniper fire, causing a temporary retreat from the site.

So in public we have the yanks calling for the inspectors to be given access under conditions unacceptable to any sovereign state and in the knowlege that wont be accepted . But theyre speedily granted access to the site and immediately the western powers freak out, announce to the world theyre completely useless and behind the scenes trying to ensure theyre taken out of Syria altogether before they get there .

And we have this free and unfettered access precondition also delaying the original investigation into the previous massacre they were there to investigate in the first place, which a UN commissioner has frankly stated was most likely to have been the jihadists .

More than a bit disturbing .
 
cunt he may well be , but the fact is hes a well trained cunt . Particularly in the business of not giving anything away that can compromise, undermine and embarass you later .

The kind of cunt happy to lock up members of a punk band for two years for daring to criticise him.
 
I heard someone, I think an MP, it must have been on the radio as that is where I get most of my news, anyhow they said there is information that the rebels may have had some nerve agent and it escaped in error, or something like that they said .. anyhow they said the information was on www.infowars.com .. what ... where .... why would one take inforwars word on anything .. they are conspiraloons united .. !!
 
and this is interesting . Hollandes announcement that France would wait for the UN report is definitely the first time hes said that . Its a major policy shift and seems to have been a direct result of a coversation he had with someone in Russia . Its such an about face that even his own foreign minister didnt seem to have a clue, as he was completely dismissing the UN just hours earlier . So that looks very much like something of significance has happened . Its definitely not a decision hes made in consultation with his own people . Strikes me as important .

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=235&sid=26745367&s_cid=rss-235

Yeah some kind of deal has been struck or simply he's looking at the same public polling as all other sane politicians and thinking 'Fuck that shit!'..?
 
Putain doesnt give a shit what the rest of the world thinks.
Dodgy bloke gets poisoned by gently glowing tea Putain shrugs:eek:
Its not like th average russian gives a shit one way or the other about syria.
 
I heard someone, I think an MP, it must have been on the radio as that is where I get most of my news, anyhow they said there is information that the rebels may have had some nerve agent and it escaped in error, or something like that they said .. anyhow they said the information was on www.infowars.com .. what ... where .... why would one take inforwars word on anything .. they are conspiraloons united .. !!
http://web.archive.org/web/20130130...chemical-weapon-attack-Syria-blame-Assad.htmlThe Mail.
 
have to be a bit careful about taking stuff reported in RT as 100% accurate*. for example they said that the Russians had pulled out of their naval base in Syria which was closely followed by the Russian version of the MOD saying "erm no we haven't"

apologies if it categorically states it in the video on that page but tbh I really CBA sitting through a 48 minute press conference to find out

*tbh just the same as anything written in the Sun etc
 
Pretty damning stuff here...

http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...ers-syrian-government-didn’t-launch-chemical-

Preface: Without doubt, intelligence is being manipulated to justify war against Syria. Here, here, here, here and here.

Without doubt, the Syrian rebels had access to chemical weapons … and have apparently used them in the recent past.

Associated Press reported last week:

An intercept of Syrian military officials discussing the strike was among low-level staff, with no direct evidence tying the attack back to an Assad insider or even a senior Syrian commander, the officials said.


So while Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that links between the attack and the Assad government are “undeniable,” U.S. intelligence officials are not so certain that the suspected chemical attack was carried out on Assad’s orders, or even completely sure it was carried out by government forces, the officials said.

***

Another possibility that officials would hope to rule out: that stocks had fallen out of the government’s control and were deployed by rebels in a callous and calculated attempt to draw the West into the war.

Reuters notes today:

With the United States threatening to attack Syria, U.S. and allied intelligence services are still trying to work out who ordered the poison gas attack on rebel-held neighborhoods near Damascus.


No direct link to President Bashar al-Assad or his inner circle has been publicly demonstrated, and some U.S. sources say intelligence experts are not sure whether the Syrian leader knew of the attack before it was launched or was only informed about it afterward.

Indeed, numerous intelligence officers say that the rebels likely carried out the August 21st attack.

For example, the Daily Caller reports:

The Obama administration has selectively used intelligence to justify military strikes on Syria, former military officers with access to the original intelligence reports say, in a manner that goes far beyond what critics charged the Bush administration of doing in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq war.

According to these officers, who served in top positions in the United States, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordan, a Syrian military communication intercepted by Israel’s famed Unit 8200 electronic intelligence outfit has been doctored so that it leads a reader to just the opposite conclusion reached by the original report.

***

The doctored report was picked up on Israel’s Channel 2 TV on Aug. 24, then by Focus magazine in Germany, the Times of Israel, and eventually by The Cable in Washington, DC.



According to the doctored report, the chemical attack was carried out by the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division of the Syrian Army, an elite unit commanded by Maher al-Assad, the president’s brother.



However, the original communication intercepted by Unit 8200 between a major in command of the rocket troops assigned to the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division, and the general staff, shows just the opposite.



The general staff officer asked the major if he was responsible for the chemical weapons attack. From the tone of the conversation, it was clear that “the Syrian general staff were out of their minds with panic that an unauthorized strike had been launched by the 155th Brigade in express defiance of their instructions,” the former officers say.



According to the transcript of the original Unit 8200 report, the major “hotly denied firing any of his missiles” and invited the general staff to come and verify that all his weapons were present.



The report contains a note at the end that the major was interrogated by Syrian intelligence for three days, then returned to command of his unit. “All of his weapons were accounted for,” the report stated.



***



An Egyptian intelligence report describes a meeting in Turkey between military intelligence officials from Turkey and Qatar and Syrian rebels. One of the participants states, “there will be a game changing event on August 21st” that will “bring the U.S. into a bombing campaign” against the Syrian regime.



The chemical weapons strike on Moudhamiya, an area under rebel control, took place on August 21. “Egyptian military intelligence insists it was a combined Turkish/Qatar/rebel false flag operation,” said a source familiar with the report.



[A "false flag" is a ploy for starting war which has been used by governments around the world for thousands of years.]



Agents provacateurs are as old as warfare itself. What better than a false flag attack, staged by al Qaeda and its al Nusra front allies in Syria, to drag the United States into a war?

And 12 very high-level former intelligence officials wrote the following memorandum to Obama today:

The general staff officer asked the major if he was responsible for the chemical weapons attack. From the tone of the conversation, it was clear that “the Syrian general staff were out of their minds with panic that an unauthorized strike had been launched by the 155th Brigade in express defiance of their instructions,” the former officers say.
According to the transcript of the original Unit 8200 report, the major “hotly denied firing any of his missiles” and invited the general staff to come and verify that all his weapons were present.
The report contains a note at the end that the major was interrogated by Syrian intelligence for three days, then returned to command of his unit. “All of his weapons were accounted for,” the report stated.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/12-u-s-intelligence-officials-tell-obama-it-wasnt-assad.html

We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”
 
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