bimble
floofy
you don't think believing religious stuff might help prep people for qanon which is (i think) largely a religion? ok.
Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
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Most of my family are evangelical christians, and conspiracy theories are a part of their beliefs to an extent, aswell the belief in bible prophecy. So I had the misfortune of being brought up my such people and being stuck with them for a considerable time. That didn't last though and I'm now finally free of them.
Their polititcs is not always what you would necessarily expect though. I looked up my Dad on facebook recently and I noticed a pro-Corbyn pic of his from 2018, and yes he is still very much into evangelical christianity. And in the past I witnessed him coming out with hideous bigotry and talking in toungues.
Perhaps if my Dad was American he'd be right-wing. What his politics is these days I'm not certain.
Their polititcs is not always what you would necessarily expect though. I looked up my Dad on facebook recently and I noticed a pro-Corbyn pic of his from 2018, and yes he is still very much into evangelical christianity. And in the past I witnessed him coming out with hideous bigotry and talking in toungues.
Perhaps if my Dad was American he'd be right-wing. What his politics is these days I'm not certain.
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BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
They are trapped. The ones who are really deeply in have been alogrithymed and confirmation-biased into a very dark place.
I am really unsure how they are going to deal with a massive part of the population being vaccinated and them blowing in the wind, sitting ducks for the virus. Do they just keep digging their heels in or finally, with great emotionally and mental restructuring, concede? I understand that many have different reasons for not taking the jab, (including well founded mistrust of the authorities in the BAME community), but you also have whole swaths of people, legion as pickman puts it, who literally believe that bill gates wants to kill us all, that communism will be rolled out by the WHO, UN etc, and that it's "zombie slime" that alters our very nature. These are the types who go on marches and film inside hospitals.
I mean how do you mentally return from that?
there's an interesting thread on that group - 99%against corruption on facebook - which I morbidly and foolishly peek into ever day - the thread is 100s of posters all laughting at how many of their friends and family have unfollowed them. they 9 times out of 10 have nothing but spiteful contempt for those who "believe" in covid and the vacinne program. A sort of bloodthirsty sneer "they might be happy with that jab now but just wait until they are having convulsions and the globalists wont come to their help" followed by 10 laughing emojis.
I am really unsure how they are going to deal with a massive part of the population being vaccinated and them blowing in the wind, sitting ducks for the virus. Do they just keep digging their heels in or finally, with great emotionally and mental restructuring, concede? I understand that many have different reasons for not taking the jab, (including well founded mistrust of the authorities in the BAME community), but you also have whole swaths of people, legion as pickman puts it, who literally believe that bill gates wants to kill us all, that communism will be rolled out by the WHO, UN etc, and that it's "zombie slime" that alters our very nature. These are the types who go on marches and film inside hospitals.
I mean how do you mentally return from that?
there's an interesting thread on that group - 99%against corruption on facebook - which I morbidly and foolishly peek into ever day - the thread is 100s of posters all laughting at how many of their friends and family have unfollowed them. they 9 times out of 10 have nothing but spiteful contempt for those who "believe" in covid and the vacinne program. A sort of bloodthirsty sneer "they might be happy with that jab now but just wait until they are having convulsions and the globalists wont come to their help" followed by 10 laughing emojis.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think it depends on the religious stuff eg fewer Jews or animists will I think be found among the ranks of qanon than twice too often born again Xians
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Only to land here
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I choose not to torment myself with counterfactuals. If someone I know turns out to be a nut, I'll deal with that as and when I discover it. Until then I count myself lucky.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
another thing i have noticed is how evidence is valued. On that group there are so many 2 minute clips, or screenshots. So someone will post a screenshot of some random doctor's post on twitter, and the comment will be "See! Why can't people wake up to this! You won't see THIS on mainstream media" and all it is some random quote, doctor or not, saying some anecdotal stuff that often doesn't even prove what they saying it proves. It doesn't infact prove anything other than that someone has said it.
Conversations in pubs never in used to go like that did they? "Oh, I know a doctor who thinks it rubbish, so therefore it's all a globalist ploy to kill us all". Something weird has happened in the last ten years in regards deduction and argument. It seems a new path of radicalization has been bored out and many are willing to travel on it. hope i'm wrong.
Conversations in pubs never in used to go like that did they? "Oh, I know a doctor who thinks it rubbish, so therefore it's all a globalist ploy to kill us all". Something weird has happened in the last ten years in regards deduction and argument. It seems a new path of radicalization has been bored out and many are willing to travel on it. hope i'm wrong.
Johnny Doe
Well-Known Member
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
That gives me a little hope for them. If someone is going to the lengths these people are to "make OK" the reactions of others, that says to me that they are, at some level concerned enough about those views to invest such energy in laughing them off.
I'd be more concerned for the ones who simply discount the views of anyone who doesn't believe.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
did warn people. there's even worse ones than that. i think there's a certain value in seeing what "ecosystems" people are inhabiting. I mean racist and far right arseholes you could for years kinda predict what they are going to say to anything put to them. This sort of sub group of extremism is something new and utterly bizarre - it's a mixture of otherwise ordinary (in that they have no real history, it seems, of being involved in fringe and out-there ideas) who are suddenly believing the most vehemently mind bending, wreckless (for themselves and others) things. Something has changed recently.Why did I look?
bimble
floofy
I just learnt that there is no pig extract in any of the covid vaccines that are being used in the UK. Apparently that's a thing that religious minorities have been scaring themselves about.
Pickman's model jews have a problem, the religious ones are a bit rubbish at vaccinating their children. Dunno about the animists they're probably fine.
www.ny1.com
Pickman's model jews have a problem, the religious ones are a bit rubbish at vaccinating their children. Dunno about the animists they're probably fine.
Orthodox Community Faces Down Misinformation In Vaccine Education Efforts
Education efforts get underway ahead of a major holiday.
www.ny1.com
prunus
Tick tock.
I can’t read that name without thinking “they’re pretty dead set against corruption, except maybe about 1 time in 100, when they don’t really mind”. I don’t think it’s what they mean though.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
There's a sort of strange echo there of the 'corruption in videogame journalism' stuff of a few years back. Maybe a coincidence but that stuff certainly bled through into the alt-right and QAnon side I think.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
I don't like to seem reductive and "psychologise" certain type of belief systems, but I do wonder if this is just simply anti-social/narcisstic, i.e. the "dark triad" personality types, manifesting themselves under the stress of a pandemic. The members of that facegroup seem to be a broad church of different social classes/status. Maybe it is just the unpleasent finding a niche and shouting loudly because of the stressful affect of a pandemic. I've seen many pictures of people doing maskless selfies at supermarkets with grinning, smug faces - "Standing up for all the nonsheep out there" is the sort of caption. Now, if that doesn't scream "sociopathic", I'm not sure what does. Just like those who drive 90mph in 30 zones. Again a seductive but tempting explanation and i'm sure way to reductive/simplistic.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
On reddit, r/nonewnormal is thoroughly, tear-jerkingly depressing. Not that I want anyone to go there, but like a mouth ulcer you can't stop licking, I can't bring myself to unsubscribe. As some may understand, I keep thinking I can engage in a way that makes someone re-think, but nobody there is interested in anything that isn't already part of the groupthink.
And this is not a class issue, as far as I can tell .. it seems to cut across what I understand as social class at every level. Which to me, makes it even more difficult to fix. It's personal, individualist and subjective. There's no way in - unless you're in already .. and then there's no way out.
It's possibly even more troubling than capitalism itself.
And this is not a class issue, as far as I can tell .. it seems to cut across what I understand as social class at every level. Which to me, makes it even more difficult to fix. It's personal, individualist and subjective. There's no way in - unless you're in already .. and then there's no way out.
It's possibly even more troubling than capitalism itself.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
almost impossible to find a qanon believer who is not a covid skeptic too. It's all on the same twisted dark road. They both seem to have a weird fascination with stopping "child abuse" too. Not that they gave much of a shit about before their current agendas. They darkly project all sorts of stuff on to their enemies.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
it's capatalism that's enabled it - the online grift for either money and/or likes/followers has destroyed many a mind.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
an old boss at work is an old school tory. lives in buckinghamshire, reads the torygraph into work each day. reads military books. visits archeological sites at the weekend. you know the type.
he hasn't been touched by the internet. he just doesn't go there except for work. he has read that paper on the train each day for years.
he is not a racist. he's just not. It's not in him. He's a bit brexit, a bit patriotic. But far right, he's just not. But yeah, he's a tory. He hates boris but likes people like Major, etc. the rest of us in the office are left, middle, or far left. he joins in. there is no sense of anger when he puts his points, and he has no anger toward anyone putting their points. it's just friendly debate. i probably disagree with almost all of his outlooks but he's a human being who knows how to listen, to be silent at the right time, to change his mind, to concede now and then, or laugh at others if they laugh at him. he supports his staff and is famously kind hearted and people love him. he's the sort of bloke who would carry on the evening after a do with a Union man in the pub after work and politics would not even be mentioned. but yes he's a middle england tory bore. torygraph every day.
i think people like him, no matter where they sat politically, have been lost by the algorithm. the folk who read their paper every day and had their views but still had best mates who thought different to them. go on any of these forums and disagree with someone and see what happens.
he hasn't been touched by the internet. he just doesn't go there except for work. he has read that paper on the train each day for years.
he is not a racist. he's just not. It's not in him. He's a bit brexit, a bit patriotic. But far right, he's just not. But yeah, he's a tory. He hates boris but likes people like Major, etc. the rest of us in the office are left, middle, or far left. he joins in. there is no sense of anger when he puts his points, and he has no anger toward anyone putting their points. it's just friendly debate. i probably disagree with almost all of his outlooks but he's a human being who knows how to listen, to be silent at the right time, to change his mind, to concede now and then, or laugh at others if they laugh at him. he supports his staff and is famously kind hearted and people love him. he's the sort of bloke who would carry on the evening after a do with a Union man in the pub after work and politics would not even be mentioned. but yes he's a middle england tory bore. torygraph every day.
i think people like him, no matter where they sat politically, have been lost by the algorithm. the folk who read their paper every day and had their views but still had best mates who thought different to them. go on any of these forums and disagree with someone and see what happens.
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lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I'm worried about where this is all heading to be honest. I've stopped engaging at all with any of the local covid deniers, including some that I am acquaintances with, because they are now so delusional (satanic paedophilia etc) I'm starting to question whether they are potentially dangerous in the future. If you believe this stuff with such a fervour, it's only a small step to believing that the guy down the road arguing with you on Facebook is an active agent of Satan / the New World Order (and possibly a paedophile) preventing the awakening of the human race and therefore needs violently suppressing.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
as i've said i had a best friend disappear down the rabit hole. and seeing his posts the idea of him raising his kids (which he does for half the week) become suddenly very worrying.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Am reminded of the beloved local where you'd rub shoulders with all people with all different beliefs and occasional, conversation might get heated, and surreal.
But it was still back and forth and learning, of sorts.
Don't see anything like that with this new religion. It's just off the charts, reality denying, weapons grade bonkers.
And it's everywhere now. Least it feels that way.
Remember when people would put "Jedi" on the census forms, for the lols? Maybe some were vaguely serious, but this... this is all pervasive.
And it's grown so fast. Genuinely worried where it takes us next.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
or the pub after work. no one would say, "all those on the right sit on this table, all those on the left sit at this table." you just communed over the pint, and it didn't come into it. i wonder how long a group of covid deniers and non covid deniers could sit in a pub round the same table. maybe they could, i'm not so sure though.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
yes, when it's has some sort of semblance of reality involved, there's some sort of chance that a conversation can be hard. when there's little or no reality, it's next level as you say.
editor
hiraethified
Be even worse to go for a night out post-lockdown and find yourself on a table with friends spouting this kind of shit.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Took me a while, but it was Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals...
“ When the Christian crusaders in the Orient encountered the invincible order of Assassins, that order of free spirits par excellence, whose lowest ranks followed a rule of obedience the like of which no order of monks ever attained, they obtained in some way or other a hint concerning that symbol and watchword reserved for the highest ranks alone as their secretum: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." — Very well, that was freedom of spirit; in that way the faith in truth itself was abrogated. Has any European, any Christian free spirit ever strayed into this proposition and into its labyrinthine consequences? has one of them ever known the Minotaur of this cave from experience? — I doubt it; more, I know better: nothing is more foreign to these men who are unconditional about one thing, these so-called "free spirits," than freedom and liberation in this sense; in no respect are they more rigidly bound; it is precisely in their faith in truth that they are more rigid and unconditional than anyone. ”
No point to make, just sharing the quote because .. well, here we are.
“ When the Christian crusaders in the Orient encountered the invincible order of Assassins, that order of free spirits par excellence, whose lowest ranks followed a rule of obedience the like of which no order of monks ever attained, they obtained in some way or other a hint concerning that symbol and watchword reserved for the highest ranks alone as their secretum: "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." — Very well, that was freedom of spirit; in that way the faith in truth itself was abrogated. Has any European, any Christian free spirit ever strayed into this proposition and into its labyrinthine consequences? has one of them ever known the Minotaur of this cave from experience? — I doubt it; more, I know better: nothing is more foreign to these men who are unconditional about one thing, these so-called "free spirits," than freedom and liberation in this sense; in no respect are they more rigidly bound; it is precisely in their faith in truth that they are more rigid and unconditional than anyone. ”
No point to make, just sharing the quote because .. well, here we are.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
This is the thing isn't it. I've happily sat round the table with many of these people in the past. Danced with them at parties, shared a spliff, sat round a fire. I just have no idea how I will be able to do that in the future, because this isn't just some wacky conspiracy about covid, it's a whole insane (and very far right) worldview. And I just know that lots of other well meaning people will just try to make sure they are not excluded, because 'their heart is in the right place really' or some such hippy bullshit.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, the direction it could go (is going?) is worrying. I mean if you actually think this satanic child abuse rings, control and enslavement of the human race with 5G/whatever, global covid conspiracy thing is real, then the logical next step is quite concerning as some form of full-on resistance would seem a proportional response, as would denouncing anyone that disagreed with you.
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