cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
In my experience many hardline covid conspiracy merchants are also holocaust deniers.
Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
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BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Some are so "awake" the whole of recent history collapses. The narrative we've been told is of course rarely the true story (which leads to all sorts of epistemological questions anyhow) but the whole point of history is a handling of primary and secondary sources. We give it our best shot. With many loons though the whole thing is put in the bin.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Hopefully when covid settles down, this movement wi go back to their chakras. Covid is emotional and people are traumatised, it'll be coming out sideways all over the shop. Luckily we have a msm who have largely, give or take, stuck with the "covid is real" angle and without that, we'll, I'm not sure where we would be. It's been a war effort in many ways, people largely all facing in the right direction. I can talk covid with the right wing tradesmen at work and there is no sense that we are rubbing up against each other, as we do if we are stupid enough to bring up brexit. The media has played a part in that.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
I know you are not being serious, but in the fetid world of the anti-vaxxer, this would actually makes more sense.
Also if the vaccine was to depopulate the world, why not just release a more effective virus??
If the vaccine was made to kill people (IT ISN'T) when millions of the vaccinated start dying, there'll will be chaos which 'They' would not want.
Also with the anti-vaxxers it's 'The Virus doesn't exist, but China released it deliberately'
I sure some conspiracies do exist, but we don't know about them and they will be fairly small scale, and not the 'truther' ones.
Conspiracy Theory test:
Does the theory have internal logic and consistency? If 'no' it's bollocks.
How many people does it take to keep it secret? The more people it needs, the more likely it's bollocks
Take Flat Earth. It has no internal logic or consistency and it would take a good percentage of the worlds population to keep it from the sheeple. Therefore it's crap. Even before taking one look at any scientific evidence.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Just get her to do it if she's so keen.
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
I refer you to the pirate stories of yesteryears:
7 men carry a box onto an island
one man comes back
and ultimately, the secret is only safe when the last person knowing it has died.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
I assumed you were. I was simply adding on my thoughts on how we should be dealing with these bastards that are quite literally jeopardising lives. Its very possible that if we don’t kill this pandemic quickly there could be mutations that have a far higher death rate, or take out large numbers of young people like 1918 flu did. Every single transmission is another opportunity for that to happen. We could see consequences that make the last year pale into insignificance, and anyone who hinders the vaccine delivery or refuses a jab without a good medical reason would be culpable. I know you were joking but I was adding my thoughts that these scum need to be dealt with at community level. My next door neighbor who I had always got on with is an anti-vaxer-tear down the 5G masts idiot. She told me at the start of the first lockdown and I haven’t spoken to her since. When I look at her I think of my nephew who has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis and can’t have the vaccine, and I am reminded of the potentially catastrophic outcome should be contract this vile disease. I have nothing but contempt for any person who refuses the vaccine without a medical reason. I don’t think we should beat around the bush with them. They should be at the very least ostracised and driven out of the communities they endanger.Not sure but I think I might have been joking a little bit
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Better still liquidise them and use them as a growth medium to produce more vaccine.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Agree with most of that but you come up against some of the same issues you come up against when it comes to fascists.
The propagandists, the died in the wool true believers are pretty easy - ostracise them, if you can get away with it sabotage their lives and disrupt any attempts to organise or disseminate their ideas. I've done a bit of this myself. Kept seeing q and other loon stickers on lamp posts etc where I live. Then one morning I caught a little scrote putting them up. We had a dufference of opinion, he thought he was going to keep putting the stickers up, I thought otherwise. After a small amount of unpleasantness he came around to my point of view. But the problem is most of this isn't spread by stickers or even face to face human contact. It's social media. Not sure how to deal with that.
But there's another group, who for various reasons accept some of the loon ideas (some of them perfectly understandable - cynicism towards elites etc) but aren't part of the propaganda machine. There's too many to simply write off. And to me it's symptomatic of a failure of the left that the far right/conspiraloons have tapped into their cynicism and we haven't.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Some may remember the news stories about what this fucker did. He has now ended up with a 3 year federal sentence.
www.nbcnews.com
Pharmacist who 'intentionally' destroyed 500 Covid vaccine doses gets three years in prison
Steven Brandenburg told a federal judge on Tuesday that he was "desperately sorry and ashamed" about what he did.
www.nbcnews.com
Some may remember the news stories about what this fucker did. He has now ended up with a 3 year federal sentence.
Pharmacist who 'intentionally' destroyed 500 Covid vaccine doses gets three years in prison
Steven Brandenburg told a federal judge on Tuesday that he was "desperately sorry and ashamed" about what he did.
It's bad enough (I mean, really very bad) that he took them out, but then to put them back, not tell anyone, and leave so many people to be unknowingly injected with spoiled vaccine! What an utter shitbag.
I rarely feel good about anyone going to prison but for him I will make an exception.
Johnny Doe
Well-Known Member
I fear even then, these people won't see they were conned. Much like 'end of the word is nigh types', when the cast iron date comes and goes and a new narrative for a new date and why the last one was wrong appears, until it happens, it could still happen. Hence, the story is adjusted, but hasn't been proven untrue
In all the years people have been peddling NWO/global genocide/reset theories based on events none of them have come to pass (obviously). Yet these ideas still prevail. They even have conferences and festivals, probably even cruises (until they bump into the ice wall obviously)
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Indeed. The same thing applies to the 9/11-was-a-hoax crew - remember how some of them were claiming the attacks had been faked as a pretext to introduce repressive legislation, the Patriot Act supposedly being a harbinger of worse things to come, black helicopters whisking dissenters off to FEMA concentration camps and so on.
Similarly, Sandy Hook and other firearms massacres were seen by the more extreme loons as hoaxes that would give the US gubmint an excuse to take away people's right to bear arms.
But Columbine took place 22 years ago, 9/11 was 20 years, Sandy Hook 8 years... how long does it take before a hardcore conspiraloon admits s/he may have been wrong?
This may also apply to the anti-vaccine crew - if they fear the long-term effects of the vaccines won't manifest for several years... (a conspiraloon hoax doing the rounds a week or so ago claimed that Prof Luc Montagnier - of HIV discovery fame - had stated in a video that everyone who had been vaccinated would die within 2 years. Needless to say, in the video clip they were spreading, he said no such thing
)
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
A lot of other cults or cult-like groups are similar, aren't they? I guess many people have invested too much time and money and brainpower as to reverse their previously-held beliefs. Apocalyptic religious cults giving a specific date when the world would end and the Second Coming take place. I once knew a bloke who'd been raised as a child in Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's commune at Poona. When I mentioned his 93 (?) Rolls Royces, this feller became defensive and said, well, the Rollers were a mistake but there was a lot of good things happening there too. I mean, maybe there were - but from what I've read, there was also a great deal of sexual and financial exploitation, brainwashing and the like. I guess he didn't want to admit that his formative years and schooling hadn't been what they could have been, because of a decision made by his hippy parents, and didn't want to face the idea that his parents had made an irresponsible decision.
.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Those pesky Jews poisoning the water supply - a common rumour in the Middle Ages during pandemics. And people with leprosy were accused of infecting wells. Norman Cohn's Warrant for Genocide and The Pursuit of the Millennium are good resources for this sort of thing. He argues there's a direct line from these beliefs that leads to 20th century Nazi propaganda about Jews spreading disease.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah definitely. One of the fundamental things that underlies the belief in this stuff seems to be that whatever you choose to believe (or feel to be true) at any given time is essentially valid. It has some inherent quality of truth to you individually which is what really matters here. Most obviously this is seen in the belief that your view as someone who has watched some YouTube videos is as valid as someone who has spent their life researching a subject, but I think it also allows for this sort of flexibility. It doesn't need the sort of self-analysis that says 'hang on, what I believed before turned out to be nonsense, why is that?' They can just adjust, what they then believe becomes the new truth and is just as valid as the old one.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Argh! My brother's girlfriend reckons Israel (apparently) requiring visitors to have some sort of electronic proof of vaccination is 'like the Nazis all over again.'
Today's version: 'Would you ban people with HIV from events etc'?
I don't much about this, but it seems Hannah Arendt disagreed with Norman Cohn: Warrant for Genocide - Wikipedia
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
The investment of time and emotion is important I think, and not limited to cults or similar, you can see it in all sorts of areas of life. Sports and training methods are an example I've seen; people do what they've been taught or seen done with certain training methods, even though evidence and practice has moved on and shown other things are better, but some people get stuck in patterns, or just struggle with change and the admission that what they've been doing for years isn't that great. And the longer they stick with things in some ways the harder it is for change to happen as they have to admit they've been wrong for longer.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Just bumped into my next neighbour, which is rare as our main doors open on different roads & there's a 7 foot fence between the back gardens, he's a retired guy that always seemed pleasant enough.
Needless to say the conversation soon got onto the pandemic & vaccines, he's not having the jab, because he has underlying health issues & they haven't been tested on people like him, I pointed out millions of people in his position have had it, but, no he doesn't trust them. His wife has had hers, I bet the conversations about that were difficult between them. So, I thought, just hesitate, fair enough.
Then he started going on about freedoms and not trusting MSM, I am like, oh FFS, I've got a live one here.
Next up - just about everything, have they died of covid or with covid, Bill Gates has a lot to answer for, etc. etc.
Now, I am thinking I need to move.
Needless to say the conversation soon got onto the pandemic & vaccines, he's not having the jab, because he has underlying health issues & they haven't been tested on people like him, I pointed out millions of people in his position have had it, but, no he doesn't trust them. His wife has had hers, I bet the conversations about that were difficult between them. So, I thought, just hesitate, fair enough.
Then he started going on about freedoms and not trusting MSM, I am like, oh FFS, I've got a live one here.
Next up - just about everything, have they died of covid or with covid, Bill Gates has a lot to answer for, etc. etc.
Now, I am thinking I need to move.
The problem is there's always something they can point to. Some event, some piece of legislation, some action or other than helps keep their nightmare dream alive. Just a little bit longer. After all isn't that how Alex Jones ekes out a living? With the pandemic they'll have something to dine on for years to come, not just the virus but the ongoing government response, across the world. Whether it's masks now, or covid passports in the months even years to come, whatever.Indeed. The same thing applies to the 9/11-was-a-hoax crew - remember how some of them were claiming the attacks had been faked as a pretext to introduce repressive legislation, the Patriot Act supposedly being a harbinger of worse things to come, black helicopters whisking dissenters off to FEMA concentration camps and so on.
Similarly, Sandy Hook and other firearms massacres were seen by the more extreme loons as hoaxes that would give the US gubmint an excuse to take away people's right to bear arms.
But Columbine took place 22 years ago, 9/11 was 20 years, Sandy Hook 8 years... how long does it take before a hardcore conspiraloon admits s/he may have been wrong?
This may also apply to the anti-vaccine crew - if they fear the long-term effects of the vaccines won't manifest for several years... (a conspiraloon hoax doing the rounds a week or so ago claimed that Prof Luc Montagnier - of HIV discovery fame - had stated in a video that everyone who had been vaccinated would die within 2 years. Needless to say, in the video clip they were spreading, he said no such thing
All of this is helped by the fact that governments, at least here in the west, aren't benign forces giving the plebs what they want.
And bubbling under this is the omnipresent slow moving catastrofuck of climate change. First seen as more gubmint interference through cultural karl marxist new deals and then, if it comes to climate driven mass migration, the NWO importing foreigners to replace us etc. You can invent your own lurid fantasy of course
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Interesting.
This: Arendt further criticizes Cohn for asserting that "the mass of the German population was never truly fanaticized against the Jews" is similar to some criticism levelled at Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners - criticised for portraying the entire early-to-mid-C20th German people as virulently anti-Semitic and that this hatred had its origin in the Middle Ages (can't recall if it was him or Cohn who quoted anti-Jewish rants by Martin Luther), if not before.
Goldhagen argued along these lines in order to explain why the Einsatzgruppen had willingly carried out horrendous mass shootings in occupied Poland, Ukraine and Russia; its members were older, and so had grown up prior to Nazi control over schools, and some of them came from Hamburg, known as a left-wing city (rather like Liverpool perhaps - the cosmopolitan nature of a port?)
I must say I wasn't convinced. Obeying orders under a dictatorship during wartime (even though mass killings of women, old men and children can hardly be seen as warfare or combat), and the alleged German characteristic of obedience to authority, would seem to be equally satisfactory explanations for these mens' participation in ghastly massacres like Babi Yar.
Admittedly, Goldhagen did ask former Einsatzgruppen who'd asked to be excused mass shooting duties what had happened to them - what punishment had they faced? It seems they weren't sent to concentration camps, but were just shunned, disliked, sent to Coventry by their comrades.
Similarly, the commandant of Treblinka, Franz Stangl - interviewed by Gitta Sereny for her excellent Into That Darkness book - doesn't come across as a virulent Jew-hater and dyed-in-the-wool Nazi. Instead, as a former policeman, he seems to have been someone who obeyed orders unquestioningly, and was an ambitious person who joined the NSDAP to further his career rather than anything else.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Absolutely, yes.
That anti-vaxxers' claims are constantly shifting (perhaps unsurprisingly for a movement without a single leader of figurehead) enables this flexibility.
The vaccines contain microchips that will allow Bill Gates to control us / will alter a person's DNA / will render people Bluetooth-enabled / vaccine recipients will die within two years / will make women (and/or men?) infertile / recipients will 'shed' their 'protein (?), thus endangering those in close proximity... I'm sure I've missed a whole lot more!
These ever-changing / mutating theories also make it difficult to argue against them. A whack-a-mole situation.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The "sunk cost fallacy". Alongside cognitive dissonance, it would be a surprise if conspiraloon thinking didn't exist.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
I'd reply: people are also born with an inability to control their bowel movements, but it doesn't mean we want adults to be uncontrollably shitting and pissing willy-nilly in supermarkets, shops, offices and at the football.
High Voltage
In the top 97% of Urban's most interesting posters
I presume you'd want some form of anaesthetic should you ever have need an operation
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