Discussion about UK politics forum

[the B]

Making petty remarks like this at every fecking post isn't making you look very clever

Do posts like 'Have you heard of paragraphs' and 'Fuck off [insert further insults]' and '[insert wanker smilie]' make people look clever?

 

[oisleep]

Do posts like 'Have you heard of paragraphs' and 'Fuck off [insert further insults]' and '[insert wanker smilie]' make people look clever?

No but ern at least varies his responses and doesn't bleat on and on about the same petty point

No disrespect like, but it's getting pretty tedious

 

[the B]

So does the mudslinging on UK P&P...

 

[nosos]

Several people have made specific references to me by name and have dismissed this thread as a personal vendetta I have rather than admit that the UK p&p situation is an ongoing thing.

There are problems with UK p&p - I've said that many times over on this thread - I don't disagree with you. What I do disagree with is you and B's solutions. I don't doubt you see problems and that you genuinely feel they are problems - I'm saying that this thread is a direct result of your recent spat with Butchers, Ernie, Flims and MoM. Which is most certainly true - you've tacitly admitted as much yourself. It doesn't invalidate your criticisms at all, it just stops me - and I imagine quite a few others - from taking them anywhere near as seriously as they would otherwise.

I didn't bring these things up. Would you like to explain how these things are directly relevant to the general behaviour of the bulk of UK p&p posters?

I don't think anyone claimed they were - they are however very much relavent to the tone and content of your criticisms. Would you explain how they're not?

And do you believe in any kind of moderation policy at all on internet forums?

To a limited extent yes - I've been on forums sans moderation and they fall apart - but then again those forums aren't a community to the same extent urban is. For me it's about content - where there is substantive content I don't have a problem. People like to take the piss - as others have said it's the internet for fucks sake.

I suggest that you would be better off on a "total free speech" type forum where all kind of vile stuff is tolerated or do you in reality actually support rules and limits, like there are on urban75?

I support Mike's right to run his forums his way and I have a lot of respect for the relatively even-handed manner in which he does it.

if the statud quo wasn't to your liking then you wouldn't be saying 'let people continuing doing what they are doing'?

If the status quo wasn't to my liking - as it hasn't been in general on urban75 I'd make an effort to change it and challenge it (and I do) myself rather than endlessly whine on about other people's behaviour being mean and unacceptable.

 

[nosos]

So does the mudslinging on UK P&P...

Go back to Russia then commie!

 

[the B]

bananaphone

nos - as you said above, urban is a community of sorts...don't think it's one that tries or wants to promote or maintain being mean though...

 

[JTG]

Oh ffs.

For the record I managed 17 pages of this tripe before I gave up.

UK P&P is one of my favourite forums and the one which got me on here in the first place. I occasionally stick me oar in but most of the time read and think. There have been some bloody good threads in there, many of them have radically changed my views on politics and life.

butchers is a great poster and a decent bloke (yes I have met him several times!). Give him summat to chew on and he'll post really good stuff, post shite and he'll say so,

ern is ern. I can't believe some people haven't worked him out yet.

And there is nowt wrong with bashing Galloway, the man's an absolute shithouse.

Apart from all that, post and read if you like it, ignore if you don't. Either that or post stuff of your own but it's a hard school in there and your views will get a thorough examination. Suspect this is why TeeJay started crying about it, he usually posts nonsense (shame, the other Greens in there are pretty sound).

FWIW, I often think General has a load of crap posted all over it and music is summat I'm interested in but I get intimidated (especially when nasty old Dub made some particularly hurtful remark about my appreciation of a band he doesn't think much of ). I never started a thread saying how dreadful music is because everyone laughs at my taste and talks about bands I know sod all about.

Edit: just scanned the UKP forum. Loads of interesting non-SWP/RESPECT stuff in there. Does anyone moaning on this thread actually read that forum?

 

[flimsier]

.... in comparison to some on uk p+p, rednblack is quite a positive poster

I am just catching up with this thread. Bear with me.

I like rednblack a lot and know him well enough to say hello and chat in real life. I think he's a great poster when he actually deals with the issues. He has a lot to say (pm - this is me not being sarcastic ) I would argue (and I think he would accept) that a vast minority (at least, perhaps a majority) of his posts are actually designed to wind people up or are single line attempts at being funny. As well as posting a million RESPECT threads. I think he'd be a bigger thorn in RESPECT's side if he posted to his capabilities.

I know that sounds patronising. Apologies. I couldn't find exactly the right words.

FWIW, I find myself doing the same thing all too often.

 

[flimsier]

Butchers' post changes my opinion not at all ... OK then, so it seems that TeeJay may sometimes part of the abusiveness problem. Although I haven't seen those quotes in the context of other abuse from others that no doubt existed too -- I very much doubt that Teejay stuff quoted above was
unprovoked.

I'm sorry WoW. When sober ( ) I consider myself a reasonable poster.

I have had fights with BA, PM, RnB and others. Some of those I would blame for the way P&P is, but TJ is one of the worst offenders. He seems to feel he is 'above it all' and casts aspersions regularly about all other posters.

Of course, he may feel sanctimonious like that because he's a supporter of the Green PArty - who have more support than any other group a regular P&P poster supports - but when you challenge him on the Green Party, he goes 'not me gov'.

Hence I can't forgive the sanctimoniousness. If that's a word.

 

[flimsier]

You can ignore threads which indicate that their going be be full of sectarian infighting, they contain SWP, IWCA, Respect or Trot in the thread title. The problem comes when a normal discussion gets derailed into sectarian infighting. You can't ignore it because of the sheer volume of posts, if you attempt to 'fight' against it you just make the signal to noise ratio worse. As soon as that happens the original discussion is dead.

except for threads that start with 'so that's why' as their title.

And hence need binning (IMO).

 

[TeeJay]

I'm sorry WoW. When sober ( ) I consider myself a reasonable poster.

I have had fights with BA, PM, RnB and others. Some of those I would blame for the way P&P is, but TJ is one of the worst offenders. He seems to feel he is 'above it all' and casts aspersions regularly about all other posters.

Of course, he may feel sanctimonious like that because he's a supporter of the Green PArty - who have more support than any other group a regular P&P poster supports - but when you challenge him on the Green Party, he goes 'not me gov'.

Hence I can't forgive the sanctimoniousness. If that's a word.

I am not going to respond to this. I will debate with you on some serious issues and am not going to rise to this line of "debate".

 

[flimsier]

People like ernie have actually been in the SWP and campaigned for them, so I am interested in hearing his opinions on current developments, however bad tastefully they may be, they are relevant

That would be great, if he posted them genuinely.

usually, he tries to wind people up though.

Oh, and who are these 'people like ernie'?

 

[flimsier]

I'd like to apologise to everyone for the contribution I have made recently to throwing abuse around. I intend to try my best from now on to 'do as I would be done by'.

OK. Me too. I wrote a long post about the post that pointed out mine and Teej's threads but deleted it.

It praised him.

My previous post about Teej stands, but only coz I wish they'd been pruned a bit (a fwe of his posts, I mean).

 

[flimsier]

When Respect fail in the election it'll all quieten down again on that front.

That's not true. If that happens, how many gloating threads will there be?

Before RESPECT, there were a million and one SWP threads... its kinda like 'who's the target to be?'

 

[General Ludd]

Oh, and who are these 'people like ernie'?

There's more than one Ernie! Fuck!

 

[flimsier]

Why don't they go and do their "own" thing on their "own" forum? For example one called "the SWP forum"?

that would be excellent, except would you like to count and calculate the number of said threads actually started by SWP members?

 

[General Ludd]

That's not true. If that happens, how many gloating threads will there be?

But they'll die down quickly enough. The election has meant a greatly inflated number of SWP related threads, partly because most 'who are you going to vote for threads' ends up discussing Respect.

 

[emanymton]

Just want to say that in general I like P&P the way it is and don’t feel that I’ve ever been the victim of any kind of abuse or bullying

 

[General Ludd]

that would be excellent, except would you like to count and calculate the number of said threads actually started by SWP members?

oisleep, sihhi, ernestolynch, freethepeeps, Squatticus and TeeJay are the people who've started SWP-related threads on the front page of UK P&P. Out of 31 non-sticky threads that doesn't seem that bad. And TJ is special so the thread he started about the SWP doesn't actually count.

 

[freethepeeps]

Oi leave it out, I hardly ever post on UK P+P and my post was about George ruining my trip..........

 

[flimsier]

Didn't see him denying it here:
www.respectcoalition.com/index.php?aid=26

He has though, explicitly said that his anti-abortion stance is not the RESPECT position (contrary to so many P&P posts) and he has said privately (so I understand directly from the woman herself) to LG that he's happy for RESPECT to have a pro-choice stance though he won't mention it in any speech.

I'm sorry for having no links, but I don't lie.

 

[Dubversion]

i don't see that makes any difference.. what if an equivalent politician in another party - Labour, say - held deeply racist views? if they promised to shut the fuck up about it, would you ignore it and cast your vote in their favour?

 

[flimsier]

What I cannot reconcile is his previous antipathy to Trotskyism, which he used as a reason not to join the Scottish Socialist Party (whereas its more likely that he felt he couldn't control it with the rival tanned personality of Sheridan in competition), yet now he is mixing with all manner of mad Trot dogs.

Sheridan and he exchanged greetings, hugged, and wished each other all the best at the RESPECT launch.

More likely is the obvious point that he was expelled from the Labour Party between these events.

 

[TeeJay]

that would be excellent, except would you like to count and calculate the number of said threads actually started by SWP members?

I don't actually have a list of SWP members and sometimes it is hard to know who is a current member, who is an ex-member & supporter, who is an ex-member turned enemy and who is simply a Respect member/supporter but not an SWP member. As far as I can work out there are about 9 or 10 SWP members who post regularly on urban75 along with another 20 or so people who said they are going to vote for Respect in the poll that was run, but maybe I have got this wrong?

 

[flimsier]

Several people have made specific references to me by name and have dismissed this thread as a personal vendetta I have rather than admit that the UK p&p situation is an ongoing thing. I started this thread without mentioning any personal dispute I have had with anyone, and it has been other people who have tried to introduce arguments about my so called "hidden agenda" and questioned my "honesty". I didn't bring these things up. Would you like to explain how these things are directly relevant to the general behaviour of the bulk of UK p&p posters? And do you believe in any kind of moderation policy at all on internet forums? Do you think there should be any kind of limits on the level and type of abuse that is tolerated? Is it OK to make all sorts of false claims about people? And how would you enforce these things? I suggest that you would be better off on a "total free speech" type forum where all kind of vile stuff is tolerated or do you in reality actually support rules and limits, like there are on urban75? Doesn't it actually come doen to an argument where the lines are drawn, and so you are not actually that different from the B, you just have a different place that you would draw the line? Maybe you simply prefer the status quo and don't want things changed, hence you are using the the 'lassiez faire' argument, but presumably if the statud quo wasn't to your liking then you wouldn't be saying 'let people continuing doing what they are doing'?

Will you now be honest about your reasons for starting the AF thread?

 

[emanymton]

For the record Galloway is not a supporter of capital punishment in general just in certain cases such as former dictators.

 

[freethepeeps]

For the record Galloway is not a supporter of capital punishment in general just in certain cases such as former dictators.

I don't understand your post.......

 

[flimsier]

I am not going to respond to this. I will debate with you on some serious issues and am not going to rise to this line of "debate".

You don't need to debate if you don't wish, but I was expressing my opinion about your level of 'debate'.

For example, Cut and paste the Green manifesto makes everyone go

 

[Dubversion]

For the record Galloway is not a supporter of capital punishment in general just in certain cases such as former dictators.

at risk of being a cliche, have you got a source for that?

 

[flimsier]

Just want to say that in general I like P&P the way it is and don’t feel that I’ve ever been the victim of any kind of abuse or bullying

emy - you are typical (IMO) of the sort of poster who would make a really good moderator. Surely you see the problem though?