Did the US Troops really capture Saddam
- Thread starter JFC
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phuckthewar
www.rabidnation.com
My own take on this little propaganda coup of Bush's, if anyone gives a shit (not that you should) can be read here. But my inclination is to believe some variant upon the following:
a. it ain't him.
b. if it is him, they've had him for months, and have been waiting until they needed a good propaganda victory to trot him out. (it's worth noting that his "capture" was announced JUST IN TIME to pre-empt the normal Sunday A.M. political shows, which this week would have been all about Halliburton's overbillings and its ties to Dick Cheney.).
c. if it is him, it doesn't matter one whit; politically and militarily he was about as spent as you could get as of last April.
d. Whether it is or isn't him, expect him to "die in captivity," "commit suicide," or "die trying to escape" at some point - they'd never let his ass speak publicly about just who (RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD!) he bought his WMDs from.
And a further "psychic prediction": Expect Osama to be "captured" sometime just before the next election. (My sources on "the other side" tell me he's whiling away his time right now eating Swansons frozen dinners in a holding cell on a military base somewhere in Greenland).
a. it ain't him.
b. if it is him, they've had him for months, and have been waiting until they needed a good propaganda victory to trot him out. (it's worth noting that his "capture" was announced JUST IN TIME to pre-empt the normal Sunday A.M. political shows, which this week would have been all about Halliburton's overbillings and its ties to Dick Cheney.).
c. if it is him, it doesn't matter one whit; politically and militarily he was about as spent as you could get as of last April.
d. Whether it is or isn't him, expect him to "die in captivity," "commit suicide," or "die trying to escape" at some point - they'd never let his ass speak publicly about just who (RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD!) he bought his WMDs from.
And a further "psychic prediction": Expect Osama to be "captured" sometime just before the next election. (My sources on "the other side" tell me he's whiling away his time right now eating Swansons frozen dinners in a holding cell on a military base somewhere in Greenland).
Jorum
Well-Known Member
I haven't read many pages, but some of Debka-file stuff appears to be somewhat pro-Israel hardliners.
Not exactly the most unbiased, rational sentiment is it. So their credibility as an impartial newsite/analyst is questionable.
Also, they say Saddam had money and weapons, but that doesn't make sense when they later say:
So they "snatched" Saddam unexpected from his captors?
Which must mean his captors kept him imprisoned along with with $750,000 in cash and an assault rifle? How is that explained?
(just realised that it could be argued that the guns and money are a US lie)
Not exactly the most unbiased, rational sentiment is it. So their credibility as an impartial newsite/analyst is questionable.
Also, they say Saddam had money and weapons, but that doesn't make sense when they later say:
So they "snatched" Saddam unexpected from his captors?
Which must mean his captors kept him imprisoned along with with $750,000 in cash and an assault rifle? How is that explained?
(just realised that it could be argued that the guns and money are a US lie)
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't have much trouble believing that this is the real Hussein, and they've captured him. I don't know whether it's a great victory for the searching powers of the US Military, someone ratted him out for the cash, or a combination of the two. It doesn't really matter either way.
I don't think the "timing" indicates anything really. This isn't any more of a significant time than any other time, the level of criticism has been increasing steadily but there's been no recent blip. All that says is that they were under pressure to find him as soon as possible. What would be the point in keeping him captive and then releasing the news now? It would have been far better if they'd put that news in earlier.
I don't think the "timing" indicates anything really. This isn't any more of a significant time than any other time, the level of criticism has been increasing steadily but there's been no recent blip. All that says is that they were under pressure to find him as soon as possible. What would be the point in keeping him captive and then releasing the news now? It would have been far better if they'd put that news in earlier.
Smacks too much of "Merry Christmas, we found the bad guy" for my liking. I'm not saying it's not him but I think the timing is highly dubious.
hmmmm...anyone else beginning to see the similarities between strangely timed events, the word dubious, and the name dubya? Strange? I think it's the dictionary pre-empting it's own definitions!
hmmmm...anyone else beginning to see the similarities between strangely timed events, the word dubious, and the name dubya? Strange? I think it's the dictionary pre-empting it's own definitions!
I have been checking out what DEBKAfile has to say almost daily since before the beginning of the war, and have found it to be spectacularly wrong on many occasions. It is, of course, as you'd expect from its IMI background, blindly pro-Israel.
Erich Zann
I am what you are
There's still plenty of time for him to be killed before he gets to speak in public. Plus don't they need his help finding the WMD's
They were doing DNA test in buildings they'd bombed in the hope that they'd killed him. It was something they were after but didn't achieve.
I am so tired of these witless wankers with thier idiot theories of how the world ought to be. Questions questions ...
I am so tired of these witless wankers with thier idiot theories of how the world ought to be. Questions questions ...
two conspiracy theories in one thread.
I think its him. I think its him because its not the perfect situation for Bush and Blair (though I think its a good one for Bush, and I don't think he cares about Blair).
Also, their 'hoax' cold be discovered if they 'capture' him so if they wanted a boost, why didn't they just kill him.
Of course, people on these boards have long been saying 'he'll never be captured etc etc etc'
Tunes change and all that.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
i'd say it was him, i can't see the us falling for a look-a-likey, and dna is pretty conclusive...propaganda coup yes, and they needed it, it was always going to be used for propaganda, whever it happened
bush and blair both need a positive spin on this sorry war...
how many conspiracy threads have been posted so far about this?
bush and blair both need a positive spin on this sorry war...
how many conspiracy threads have been posted so far about this?
Timing mate? Timing?
Hah, for the last two years, the timing of events is what it's all been about...
I have until now accepted the whole event as above board. But reading some posts, i'm beginning to get that questioning hat on again.
I mean, he was found in a pit with nearly a million dollars. With such a beard, it would seem necessary that he had spent the entire time of its growth in this said, rat infested, pit.
Hardly what one might expect of such a man.
Ah, fuck knows.
100% correct. The Yanks are highly unlikely to permit a public trial, in Iraq or anywhere else.
Should a trial be unavoidable then Iraq is the best option for the Yanks. Their puppet government would make it easier to keep Rumsfeld's name out of it.
Plus the names of all the British companies which, with export licences and ECGD credit guarantees from HMG, - armed and supported him.
pilchardman
Dances With Penguins
Well it looks more like Santa to me. I think there'll be a lot of unhappy kiddies this year...
XerxesVargas
formerly MrMalcontent
It was deffo him. Its a lie thats to hard to perpetuate if the real Saddam is still out there.
Its hardly the most desperate point in the last few months for either Bush or Blair, so why wheel him out now? Bush has taken a hammering in his domestic ratings, (wasn't it last month that the US support for the war dropped below 50% for the first time?) And Blair, well Blair is well on the racks and any respite given by this will evaporate when Hutton is published.
So when you look at it logicall, surely if the USA/UK have had him locked up for the last few months then they would have wheeled him out by now? And if they did have him, wouldnt just after/before Hutton workout better for him?
Its hardly the most desperate point in the last few months for either Bush or Blair, so why wheel him out now? Bush has taken a hammering in his domestic ratings, (wasn't it last month that the US support for the war dropped below 50% for the first time?) And Blair, well Blair is well on the racks and any respite given by this will evaporate when Hutton is published.
So when you look at it logicall, surely if the USA/UK have had him locked up for the last few months then they would have wheeled him out by now? And if they did have him, wouldnt just after/before Hutton workout better for him?
Actually the beard suggests he was out and about, as it would provide a very effective disguise.
XerxesVargas
formerly MrMalcontent
I dont get this arguement. Rumsfeld name is already associated with Saddam, we all know he was there and the role he played. As for the companies that armed him, well its only news if they armed him illegally ( that is to say without the knowledge of the government of the time) and I doubt there are that many. The fact the sucessive US and UK governements armed Saddam wont make a jot of difference. Its not like this is some great secret.
Ed said -
I believe he was ratted out also, and I think that with the amount of money involved in the reward, there would have been paperwork, witness's and lawyers present so no body could renege or say one thing and do another.
This would have made it difficult for the US to just go in a kill him if they knew he was unarmed and in a position where he didn't have much alternative but give up and had witness's to say as much.
The story that he was unarmed, dishevelled and in a small hole may have been leaked if he was killed, or alternatively, it may have been a requirement for the information? (captured alive)
But having said that, I spose things can alway's be made to look accidental.
But I do agree, it would make sense for the yanks to have killed him.
I believe he was ratted out also, and I think that with the amount of money involved in the reward, there would have been paperwork, witness's and lawyers present so no body could renege or say one thing and do another.
This would have made it difficult for the US to just go in a kill him if they knew he was unarmed and in a position where he didn't have much alternative but give up and had witness's to say as much.
The story that he was unarmed, dishevelled and in a small hole may have been leaked if he was killed, or alternatively, it may have been a requirement for the information? (captured alive)
But having said that, I spose things can alway's be made to look accidental.
But I do agree, it would make sense for the yanks to have killed him.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
If definietely him.
For the USuk to bullshit about it would be suicidal - they would be rumbled veru quickly.
As for the 'Saddam was being held captive in a hole' - well thats entirely plausible (although the beard is most likely for disguise purposes') - especually if it was his own 'side' who sold him out.
Easy to do as well - 'great leader - you must hide, the yankees are coming!'. Saddam climbs into hole, not so loyal sidekicks lock the lid down and start going about co-ordinating the 'squillions of cash for Saddam' deal with the USuk.
The fact that he was alone - with no protection and helpless would point to this - at the very least it would seem that someone intimately invovled with the old bastard was behind it.
Which does suggest the very real possibility that the reward money has gone into funding more attacks on the USuk. The insurgents get more cash, and, with Saddam gone, the opportunity to promote themsevles as a campagin of national liberation and Bush gets a propagandor coup.
For the USuk to bullshit about it would be suicidal - they would be rumbled veru quickly.
As for the 'Saddam was being held captive in a hole' - well thats entirely plausible (although the beard is most likely for disguise purposes') - especually if it was his own 'side' who sold him out.
Easy to do as well - 'great leader - you must hide, the yankees are coming!'. Saddam climbs into hole, not so loyal sidekicks lock the lid down and start going about co-ordinating the 'squillions of cash for Saddam' deal with the USuk.
The fact that he was alone - with no protection and helpless would point to this - at the very least it would seem that someone intimately invovled with the old bastard was behind it.
Which does suggest the very real possibility that the reward money has gone into funding more attacks on the USuk. The insurgents get more cash, and, with Saddam gone, the opportunity to promote themsevles as a campagin of national liberation and Bush gets a propagandor coup.
A hole like that is a pretty good hiding place. Well, usually - but it seems he was ratted out.
Did nobody else read about the priest holes that we had during the whole Protestant/Catholic roundabout in this country?
Anyway - the Yanks did manipulate the timing: they caught him Saturday, and bigged it up for the Sunday breakfast news in the States. There were (unconfirmed) reports Saturday morning, here, IIRC.
Did nobody else read about the priest holes that we had during the whole Protestant/Catholic roundabout in this country?
Anyway - the Yanks did manipulate the timing: they caught him Saturday, and bigged it up for the Sunday breakfast news in the States. There were (unconfirmed) reports Saturday morning, here, IIRC.
The whole thing has been like a Sunday Sport story!
It looks like Saddam. But there were at least six Saddam Husseins, appearing on telly for whatever function when the real one preferred to shag some high-class hooker rather than open a hospital etc.
They underwent plastic surgery too I understand to look more like him!
Knowing the US political machine, and also previously believing Saddam safely escorted out of Iraq, I'm going to need the results of the DNA test before I begin to believe this is the real one.
I'm sure those who constantly cry for 'proof' around here will join me in that.
It looks like Saddam. But there were at least six Saddam Husseins, appearing on telly for whatever function when the real one preferred to shag some high-class hooker rather than open a hospital etc.
They underwent plastic surgery too I understand to look more like him!
Knowing the US political machine, and also previously believing Saddam safely escorted out of Iraq, I'm going to need the results of the DNA test before I begin to believe this is the real one.
I'm sure those who constantly cry for 'proof' around here will join me in that.
Do you really think that Bush would announce the capture of Saddam without sufficient proof. As with his sons, how would he explain another tape, or even an appearance?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
It is definitely Saddam Hussein, no question.
And I have taken Debka to pieces many a time when Betty GoStrat was pulling his stories from it.
It a piece of fucking shit and no mistake, worse than Joe Vialls and more sinister.
Probably written by pro-Sharon Israeli Jewish settlers who idly shoot at Arab kids.
Bunch of cunts not to be trusted - fuck Debka.
And I have taken Debka to pieces many a time when Betty GoStrat was pulling his stories from it.
It a piece of fucking shit and no mistake, worse than Joe Vialls and more sinister.
Probably written by pro-Sharon Israeli Jewish settlers who idly shoot at Arab kids.
Bunch of cunts not to be trusted - fuck Debka.
It's interesting that you mention the sons, because Dr. Christmas and editor were expecting the DNA tests to provide confirmation of their identity. AFAIK, it never came (for the simple reason that they were not the sons). We never heard what the results were.
But who cared? The announcement had been made and our version of reality created.
Yes of course Bush/Blair would make a totally bogus propaganda announcement. WMD anyone? When these guys tell lies, they are whoppers.
If Saddam is elsewhere, like his sons, he has absolutely no reason to appear in public. He might not look the same anymore anyway (if I was him I would have made good use of the family plastic surgeon, coincidentally the only expert to visually identify the sons).
But who cared? The announcement had been made and our version of reality created.
Yes of course Bush/Blair would make a totally bogus propaganda announcement. WMD anyone? When these guys tell lies, they are whoppers.
If Saddam is elsewhere, like his sons, he has absolutely no reason to appear in public. He might not look the same anymore anyway (if I was him I would have made good use of the family plastic surgeon, coincidentally the only expert to visually identify the sons).
DrJazzz might have something here...
That is defintely Saddam. No doubt.
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