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Did the US Troops really capture Saddam

Did they really catch him?

  • Yes, he was caught in a hole with 750k$ and a gun

    Votes: 44 60.3%
  • No, the US had to cought up plenty for cash for him

    Votes: 15 20.5%
  • It is a look alike

    Votes: 6 8.2%
  • It is 'Jungle Barry' back from the dead

    Votes: 8 11.0%

  • Total voters
    73
Right. So when he appears on TV in the show trial, and speaks in Saddam's voice with Saddam's turn of phrase to a population that is very, very familiar with how he behaves, what'll the explanation be then?

If they keep him under wraps and don't allow any broadcast of him, I might be a bit suspicious (apart from the fact that they obviously won't allow him full freedom to speak - that goes without saying). Otherwise I'm afraid this comes out as just knee-jerk nonsense.

Looks like Hussein to *me*. No shortage of video of him. Even if the nose has a bit of Ian McKellan to it.
 
they'd never let his ass speak publicly about just who (RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD! RUMSFELD!) he bought his WMDs from.

Thre weren't any WMDs but if you're talking about weapons in general, that's a public secret. It's already known, but loudly ignored by those it suits not to publicise.

What makes people so certain it is him, by the way?
 
It looks like him.

rt_saddam_beard_031215_nh.jpg
 
Ah - was going to post something along similar lines about the identification of Uday and Qusay.


Dr Jazzz - why do you assume that if you don't know about something, it didn't happen?
 
strange really. on sunday morning my mums girlfriend called her and said "they've caught saddam" so we put the telly on.

after about 10 minutes my girlfriend said "how long until some conspiracy nut post about this being staged appears on u75 ?"

he was caught. end of.
 
The debka site was exposed for the nonsense it is in the Guardian two years ago Israeli Website Mixes Fact And Fantasy

"A banner at the top of each page says: "We start where the media stop" - a claim that few could disagree with, since Debka blends fact, fantasy and propaganda in ways that make it difficult to separate one from the other.

One of Debka's recurring obsessions is its belief that the PLO, Hizbullah, Syria, Iraq and Iran have all joined a secret alliance against Israel. Many of its stories are tailored to support this theory."

Why are the conspiracy theorists so susceptible to state agendas?
 
Dr Jazzz said: \If Saddam is elsewhere, like his sons, he has absolutely no reason to appear in public.

What you mean apart from to release a taped message saying "Continue the battle, Im not captured the infidels are lying!"

Right, of course he'd keep quiet if it wasnt him. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by DrJazzz
Yes of course Bush/Blair would make a totally bogus propaganda announcement. WMD anyone? When these guys tell lies, they are whoppers.

If Saddam is elsewhere, like his sons, he has absolutely no reason to appear in public. He might not look the same anymore anyway (if I was him I would have made good use of the family plastic surgeon, coincidentally the only expert to visually identify the sons).

OK Dr. J lets assume that he is a look-a-like Saddam and that this whole event has been engineered by US/UK.

The question I would ask you is, why now? Both Bush and Blair have been in much tighter situations with their respective publics then they are now. Blair has Hutton and Bush has to face the loss of support for the war and the inevitable US deaths erroding his support all the way to the Election. Surely if you were either of them you would wait till at least early next year to announce this capture? Any positive PR gained from this will be lost come March. You are saying that they are self-interested, so what is the self interest here?

As for Saddam not apearing in Public? WTF? The nature of the man is to be a megolmaniac. He is reverred throught the region as the one Arab who would stand up to the US. He has so much more to gain from getting his face on TV as much as possible, than he does of just fading away into obscurity. He'll want to show the Arab world that he has not been beaten by the US/UK and that he will continue the struggle against them.
 
my flatmate was listening to the radio friday night and says that the very first reports, before it had been definitely confirmed as him, attributed his capture to Iraqi Kurds. When a little while later they changed the story to his capture by US soldiers, that was the only detail changed of the story, and no explanation was given.
im very bored by conspiracy theories generally but thought i'd offer that to those that care....:p
 
Originally posted by Anna Key
Plus the names of all the British companies which, with export licences and ECGD credit guarantees from HMG, - armed and supported him.
British companies make French and Russian weapons?
 
Dr. Jazzzz does have a point here that presumably there are a bunch of lookalikes running around Iraq (or rather hiding for their lives), hence the DNA test. With $25M on their various Saddamesque heads, pretty quickly they would have all been rounded up, I think.
It is him, but I'm not convinced by the story of how he got to be on TV at the weekend.
We heard so much about Saddam's bunkers before the War, and have seen all the construction his regime undertook building palaces etc., I would have expected him to have been holed up in far a far more bling, Bond- baddie mountain lair if he had indeed been in hiding. I think there's a lot to be said for him having been held against his will. At least recently. The question then is by whom. Could have been the Americans, the Kurds or his own people.
[That beard is too long to have been grown in the spider hole if he was making speeches on Nov 16th, so he was using it as a disguise before he was caught, or gave himself up.]
The Americans may well have had him in custody and set up the photo- op, designed to reduce his public image in such a way as to break his spirit as part of their interrogation technique. Having suffered that humiliation maybe he will lead them to the mythical WMDs. Predicatably, it would seem they managed to offend muslims the world over in so doing.
The Kurdish connection is intriguing, given the animosity they presumably feel towards Hussein, but the spider hole was found in a more "loyal" region - I simply don't know if Kurds would have been able catch and hold him hostage around there. If that's where he was caught, of course. Otherwise, they caught him and offered him to the Americans for $25M. Since our Turkish friendsaren't fond of the Kurds, they're unlikely to have seen any of it. More like a signed photo and honorary Marine certificate. If they were lucky.
I think it also entirely possible Saddam was held by his closet supporters, who being political animals, eventually decided to back the obvious winner in the conflict and turned on him. You can do a lot with $25M.
Unlucky for them, though, there was clearly no way the reward was just going to be paid to whomever, to possibly fall into the hands of evildoers and fund anti- American insurgency (perish even the accusation by the opposition). There was probably some protracted negotiation along the lines of "how do you like living? That's worth $25M - about what the salvo of missiles pointed at your village is going to cost..."
Therefore, the timing and spinning of this story could have been very carefully managed.

There's no denying it has pushed the Halliburton overcharging story off the frontpages. Whether this is by fortune, or design is pretty much a question of faith.

At the end of the day, the Vice President of the country that has reduced Iraq to rubble is a former director of the company awarded the plum contract to rebuild that same country in a closed tender. (The deal of the century, to date). This company was accused last week of overcharging the American forces for supplies, oil, etc. etc. It does not take much to wonder if they plan to overcharge the Iraqis too. For years to come. At the very least, it smacks of cronyism, to make the understatement of the century.

This is certainly the most politically sensitive story, domestically, for the Bush administration since the election campaign effectively started. And yet, a bigger story has already trumped it.
Furthermore, it's much better to keep Saddam alive and use his trial to focus attention away from any future unsavoury stories that may come to light, rather than blow your wad on a grainy pic of a corpse that fades from the news in a week.

Put the Osama production into turnaround for a couple years...
 
I don't think we'll know for sure until Friday.
Because by then, if the real Saddam was not captured, he would put out something saying he was still at large.
 
Originally posted by infobomb
A hole like that is a pretty good hiding place. Well, usually - but it seems he was ratted out.


D'you reckon??

Because I don't get the whole "Coalition" triumphalism about the thing.

He was hiding in his cook's house, in his home town. And how many MONTHS did it take to find that out??

Fucking embarrassing is what I say.
 
I expect Saddam's daughter has been put under some sort of hypnosis or mind control.

A bit like they did with Ian Huntley.
 
Originally posted by white rabbit
I expect Saddam's daughter has been put under some sort of hypnosis or mind control.

A bit like they did with Ian Huntley.
:D

Don't make his job easy for him....!
 
It's well him.

And, Dr J, why (by your standards) would a DNA test prove anything? Your approach to news seems to be characterised by a kneejerk denial of any factual data presented in the public arena. You're a conspiracy theorist, remember? Surely they wouldn't just release bogus data to trick us?

tm x
 
Originally posted by Tricky Mickey
It's well him.

And, Dr J, why (by your standards) would a DNA test prove anything? Your approach to news seems to be characterised by a kneejerk denial of any factual data presented in the public arena. You're a conspiracy theorist, remember? Surely they wouldn't just release bogus data to trick us?

tm x

Releasing completely bogus data is tricky even for them. But they don't need to if they can force misrepresentations of the real information.

In the case of the two men who were bogusly presented as Uday and Qusay Hussein, they could not produce either a fabricated or genuine DNA test result to match the sons, although the tests were much trumpeted. The inescapable conclusion to draw is of course that they were not the sons. editor and Dr.Christmas were still expecting the results to turn up months ago!

Given that they presented these phoneys as Uday and Qusay, I go on the evidence that I can find rather than the word of Bush and Blair. Knowing that there are many extremely good Saddam Hussein doubles, and the propaganda value of his apparent capture, I'm following the maxim of 'believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see'...

I've just been googling and have found some reports apparently confirming the Saddam test, but the wording was strangely ambiguous and not on any major news site.
 
I've got to say I think some people are a bit too quick to dismiss conspiracy theories, especially with the US's previous record of PR hoaxes like Jessica Lynch's "rescue"...

It seems pretty certain to me that US troops weren't the ones to capture Saddam. What are others' opinions on that point?

As for the rest... ?
 
all this 'is it him' shit. Look, you know tony blair and george bush? when they wheel on a crap impressionist of tony blair or george bush do you think, ohh, look it's tony blair or george bush? No. Anyone would be able to tell in a nanosecond. And all the Arab press says its him. What else is there to say?
gx
 
I believe it's him. Although I agree with the poster who said his nose seems a tad more, er, robust than usual :D
 
I agree with Hussein's daughters who say he was drugged. I saw the footage of him being tested and he sure looked like a totally beaten man, shaking his head as if to try and get more consciousness.

Part of the answer though has to lie in the 'winning the hearts and minds', and this is particularly so when it comes to arabs and the need to be strong and defiant in defeat.

It doesn't seem like the sort of hiding place he'd choose to me. How long was he planning on being there?
 
He was a desperate, beaten, broken man who'd been living in a shithole for months to avoid detection; it's not a case of choosing to hide somewhere out of many varied, pleasant, secure places, he was a man on the run and of course he's going to look beaten and confused; that's not evidence of drugging.

Dr J - what's your response to the Soham trial? You've been incredibly reticent.
 
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