Denormalisation of alcohol

[story]

I remember, years ago, going out with a friend of mine, and afterwards, as we walked back to his place, we were singing a number of songs and really enjoying it. I slept on his sofa, and the next day I remarked how much fun it had been singing as we walked along the road, and he could not remember. How much enjoyment in life has been forgotten like that?

“Remember when we went to see that band play at wherever it was? Best night ever! Can’t remember a thing!“ I’ve heard this so many times. What’s the fucking point.


ElizabethofYork
Innit. And they talk over each other and interrupt each other and talk in this insistent manner that demands some extra degree of agreement cos anything subtle isn’t noticed. And get stuck on catch phrases, like a woman the other night who kept saying “WHATEVERRRR!!” at everything anyone said, and also at everything she herself was saying too.

I do drink, and sometimes I still get buzzed but since those kids mocked us in the street I’ve developed a firm objective view of my own drunken behaviour. I saw us through their eyes and it really curbed my own excesses.

 

[story]

I remember, years ago, going out with a friend of mine, and afterwards, as we walked back to his place, we were singing a number of songs and really enjoying it. I slept on his sofa, and the next day I remarked how much fun it had been singing as we walked along the road, and he could not remember. How much enjoyment in life has been forgotten like that?

But also, with the emotional constipation a lot of Brit’s suffer, how much enjoyment has been gained by the same means.


One of my favourite memories is watching a couple of beered up blokes at a gig holdong onto each others shoulders and shouting “I FUCKING LOVE YOUOOOO!” into each others faces with real intensity.

 

[PTK]

But also, with the emotional constipation a lot of Brit’s suffer, how much enjoyment has been gained by the same means.


One of my favourite memories is watching a couple of beered up blokes at a gig holdong onto each others shoulders and shouting “I FUCKING LOVE YOUOOOO!” into each others faces with real intensity.

Yes, I was thinking that people often need a means of lessening their inhibitions.

 

[Humberto]

Where do you draw the limit though? Phasing out smoking? Ok. But do people enjoy it? Or alcohol even?

It's always about less freedom. See I don't believe cannabis or cocaine or ecstasy is a good time, or worth the after effects.

 

[PTK]

Where do you draw the limit though? Phasing out smoking? Ok. But do people enjoy it? Or alcohol even?

It's always about less freedom. See I don't believe cannabis or cocaine or ecstasy is a good time, or worth the after effects.

I think that cannabis was all right, when I smoked it as a young person. Of course, the smoking aspect is not good for the health. I don't think that I had deleterious after effects.

 

[Humberto]

Well you can become dependent and can be desperate for it. To me it has its upsides and downsides. And you notice within yourself the effects.

 

[Humberto]

Don't get me wrong, people enjoy and lean on different things. But where do you draw line is my question? 'These people eat a chip shop meal, don't get much exercise it should be dealt with' ?

 

[PTK]

Well you can become dependent and can be desperate for it. To me it has its upsides and downsides. And you notice within yourself the effects.

Having said what I said, I am sick of seeing people near where I am live dealing in it. I don't want to come across drug deals when I am out and about. It is hard time it was legaised, but not to be smoked.

 

[story]

Having said what I said, I am sick of seeing people near where I am live dealing in it. I don't want to come across drug deals when I am out and about. It is hard time it was legaised, but not to be smoked.

Why not?
Honest question. It really doesn’t bother me in the least* so I’m curious why it bothers you.


*aside from the adjacent concerns about people suffering because they’re addicted, the exploitative chain of supply etc.


Or is it these adjacent concerns that bother you?

 

[Humberto]

Having said what I said, I am sick of seeing people near where I am live dealing in it. I don't want to come across drug deals when I am out and about. It is hard time it was legaised, but not to be smoked.

So you would want less prohibition, more education and to back the fuck off if you won't fund it. It will go on anyway, to society's detriment if you criminalise drug users.

 

[story]

Well you can become dependent and can be desperate for it. To me it has its upsides and downsides. And you notice within yourself the effects.

To some extent though the dependency bit isn’t really about the drugs, it’s about the pain people experience living under the cosh of abuse, the toxic repercussions of capitalism etc.

 

[8ball]

To some extent though the dependency bit isn’t really about the drugs, it’s about the pain people experience living under the cosh of abuse, the toxic repercussions of capitalism etc.

Though the kebabs are some compensation tbf.

 

[story]

Though the kebabs are some compensation tbf.

You eat kebabs when you’re on coke and mdma? That’s proper wrongness

 

[Humberto]

It gets worse

 

[8ball]

You eat kebabs when you’re on coke and mdma? That’s proper wrongness

Just don’t let the vegans know.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I think that cannabis was all right, when I smoked it as a young person. Of course, the smoking aspect is not good for the health. I don't think that I had deleterious after effects.

Of all the drugs I ever used to take, cannabis is the one I’m closest to regretting. So much time spent around doing fuck all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It's very interesting watching drunk people now that I don't drink. I gave up booze completely about 2 and a half years ago. When I go out with drinkers now, it follows the same routine every time. It starts off okay, then after about 3 drinks you start to see a change.

With the vast majority of people I can usually see the change in them from their very first drink. It’s quite eye opening, particularly when you think they’re still technically legal to drive.

 

[lazythursday]

What i'd actually do to denormalise alcohol is this:

1) do something with the tax regime to make it far cheaper to drink in pubs and more expensive to buy in shops than at present

2) restrict sales of alcohol off premises to a limited number of specialist shops (we could call them 'off licences'...). No booze aisles in supermarkets, no booze on sale in every deli and cinema and coffee shop etc.

3) only point of sale advertising allowed

 

[lazythursday]

And actually 4) for people I know, perhaps the worst change over the past couple of decades has been the normalisation of ever stronger beer and cider on tap, I might legislate on a percentage limit for those products.

 

[Humberto]

Seems a bit puritan.

 

[lazythursday]

Seems a bit puritan.

Hardly. I'm actually making it cheaper for people to go and be social in the pub.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Seems a bit puritan.

Or maybe sensible. Nobody would be restricted in what they wanted to buy, but it may be a step towards reducing the bombardment of alcohol in every bloody corner of our society.

 

[Humberto]

Make it more expensive to buy in shops? Why?

 

[Silas Loom]

With the vast majority of people I can usually see the change in them from their very first drink. It’s quite eye opening, particularly when you think they’re still technically legal to drive.

That change after the first drink is complicated, though: some of it - at least for habitual drinkers - stems from relieved withdrawal symptoms, some of it is performative, in that drink-appropriate behaviour is selected instead of work-appropriate behaviour, and some of it is genuine degradation of inhibitors.

But that switch to a slightly elevated mood is a world away from the stupidity onset after the fourth pint, which is definitely the point where non-drinkers need to leave them to it.

 

[Sue]

And actually 4) for people I know, perhaps the worst change over the past couple of decades has been the normalisation of ever stronger beer and cider on tap, I might legislate on a percentage limit for those products.

This is definitely an issue. For example, there's a pub near me that brews its own beer. Out of the 10 to 12 beers typically on tap, maybe two or three are less than 6%. (I did ask whether they'd considered having more beers that were less strong and the barman pretty much rolled his eyes at me. Haven't been back since.)

 

[lazythursday]

Make it more expensive to buy in shops? Why?

Encourage people to use pubs rather than drinking at home. Because pubs have additional social benefits and to some extent problem drinking can be limited within premises.

 

[Silas Loom]

Make it more expensive to buy in shops? Why?

Stops supermarkets from making booze a loss leader and a larder staple, encourages people to think of drinking as something which is mainly done in the special circumstances of a pub visit.

 

[Humberto]

Stops supermarkets from making booze a loss leader and a larder staple, encourages people to think of drinking as something which is mainly done in the special circumstances of a pub visit.

To what end? Fucking hell.

 

[lazythursday]

This is definitely an issue. For example, there's a pub near me that brews its own beer. Out of the 10 to 12 beers typically on tap, maybe two or three are less than 6%. (I did ask whether they'd considered having more beers that were less strong and the barman pretty much rolled his eyes at me. Haven't been back since.)

Yep I know the kind of place all too well!

 

[Silas Loom]

To what end? Fucking hell.

Harm reduction. HTH.