Denormalisation of alcohol

[Silas Loom]

Most of the 20 somethings I work with either don't drink (too busy mainlining Huel ) or drink very moderately indeed. I get the impression they reckon anyone having more than two drinks = pretty much an alcoholic.

You and Kabbes are basing your assumptions on colleagues. Workplaces and work culture has become much less boozy, certainly. For good reasons. Mainly to do with reducing risks and increasing inclusiveness.

Bahnhof and I are basing our assumptions on offspring. Outside of work, less has changed.

 

[Elpenor]

After work drinks is quite a city dweller thing anyway I reckon.

All of my employers have had a no alcohol on duty policy, and most workplaces have been sites where folk commutes to work by car.

 

[Sue]

You and Kabbes are basing your assumptions on colleagues. Workplaces and work culture has become much less boozy, certainly. For good reasons. Mainly to do with reducing risks and increasing inclusiveness.

In the sector I work in, I wouldn't say that's really true. There's still loads of booze in the office, people drinking at lunchtime, free bars at company nights out/parties etc.

Bahnhof and I are basing our assumptions on offspring. Outside of work, less has changed.

My neices and friends' kids (all in various stages of their 20s) either don't drink or literally have two drinks at Christmas. They spend most of their time in their rooms and think their parents/parents' generation are absolute lushes....

 

[kabbes]

You and Kabbes are basing your assumptions on colleagues. Workplaces and work culture has become much less boozy, certainly. For good reasons. Mainly to do with reducing risks and increasing inclusiveness.

Bahnhof and I are basing our assumptions on offspring. Outside of work, less has changed.

I’m basing it on my fellow and the kabbess’ fellow university students over the last five years, actually. I’m way too old at work to have a clue what my younger colleagues get up to!

 

[Winot]

I’m basing it on my fellow and the kabbess’ fellow university students over the last five years, actually. I’m way too old at work to have a clue what my younger colleagues get up to!

I'm planning a return to university in a few years and I sincerely hope they have got their act together by then.

 

[scifisam]

You and Kabbes are basing your assumptions on colleagues. Workplaces and work culture has become much less boozy, certainly. For good reasons. Mainly to do with reducing risks and increasing inclusiveness.

Bahnhof and I are basing our assumptions on offspring. Outside of work, less has changed.

I also have offspring, and she's teetotal and none of her friends drink. A quarter of young people Uber 25 don't drink at all. That leaves three quarters drinking at least occasionally, but it's a massive difference to how it was when we were young, isn't it?

 

[petee]

There are no physical health benefits from moderate drinking. That has been debunked.

i've seen that too and the awareness of it has been one spur to my (successful but fitful) attempts to reduce.

 

[story]

A few of us were standing around after hours and having a bit of a lark. Some youngsters rode by on their bikes and shouted mocking abuse at us for being drunk, asking rhetorical questions about why we wanted to waste our money on alcohol, pollute our bodies, embarrass ourselves in public. It was both hilarious, and humbling.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You and Kabbes are basing your assumptions on colleagues. Workplaces and work culture has become much less boozy, certainly. For good reasons. Mainly to do with reducing risks and increasing inclusiveness.

Bahnhof and I are basing our assumptions on offspring. Outside of work, less has changed.

Grandson drinks occasionally, only if he and his mates go out for a night out. He doesn't drink at home at all.

 

[Sasaferrato]

i've seen that too and the awareness of it has been one spur to my (successful but fitful) attempts to reduce.

I'm still trying to figure out how I went from 100+ units a week to zero. The only time I drink now is on holiday, where I do my best to drink my weight in brandy over two weeks, and a glass or two of champagne at New Year.

 

[Silas Loom]

I also have offspring, and she's teetotal and none of her friends drink. A quarter of young people Uber 25 don't drink at all. That leaves three quarters drinking at least occasionally, but it's a massive difference to how it was when we were young, isn't it?

That’s all good news then. Although there were probably more sober people in the background when we were all young than we remember.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That’s all good news then. Although there were probably more sober people in the background when we were all young than we remember.

I drank less when younger as booze dulled the effects of E’s.

 

[danny la rouge]

I rarely drink at all these days. It doesn't seem to mix with long Covid. I can't seem to tolerate it: my symptoms get worse and it just isn't enjoyable.

But recently it's been swirling around my head that maybe I should make a commitment to going tea total. I always used to enjoy a drink and it's the culture I grew up with: socialising means having a drink. But maybe it's not enough to say "my drinking isn't a problem", because for some people the effects really are a problem, and if I believe in society - as I do - maybe it's not enough to think of it as just my business; maybe things would just be better generally if more people decided not to drink at all.

I've not decided yet. But I'm not actually very convinced by the objections I'm making. I think maybe my id is trying to excuse me from the effort.

 

[Silas Loom]

I rarely drink at all these days. It doesn't seem to mix with long Covid. I can't seem to tolerate it: my symptoms get worse and it just isn't enjoyable.

But recently it's been swirling around my head that maybe I should make a commitment to going tea total. I always used to enjoy a drink and it's the culture I grew up with: socialising means having a drink. But maybe it's not enough to say "my drinking isn't a problem", because for some people the effects really are a problem, and if I believe in society - as I do - maybe it's not enough to think of it as just my business; maybe things would just be better generally if more people decided not to drink at all.

I've not decided yet. But I'm not actually very convinced by the objections I'm making. I think maybe my id is trying to excuse me from the effort.

This is a good point. The fewer people who drink, the fewer enablers to encourage drinking.

Interesting that there’s a plausible take on denormalisation that doesn’t involve coercive states, which several people here don’t seem to approve of. Perhaps social proof is essential.

 

[lazythursday]

Smoking and drinking aren't the same thing, you can't drink second hand booze in the way you can breathe second hand smoke plus a modest amount of drinking can be beneficial whereas any smoking is bad for your health.
There are sound grounds for some regulation but I think basically the current rules are about right.

You have no idea the pain that you go through when one of your closest friends or family is drinking too much. Even if it doesn't get as far as actual abuse, or drunk driving etc, it is soul destroying. The knock on effects to other people's health is huge.

I rarely drink at all these days. It doesn't seem to mix with long Covid. I can't seem to tolerate it: my symptoms get worse and it just isn't enjoyable.

But recently it's been swirling around my head that maybe I should make a commitment to going tea total. I always used to enjoy a drink and it's the culture I grew up with: socialising means having a drink. But maybe it's not enough to say "my drinking isn't a problem", because for some people the effects really are a problem, and if I believe in society - as I do - maybe it's not enough to think of it as just my business; maybe things would just be better generally if more people decided not to drink at all.

I've not decided yet. But I'm not actually very convinced by the objections I'm making. I think maybe my id is trying to excuse me from the effort.

I don't drink now either, for similar reasons - not long covid but it triggers a fatigue response in me that I just can no longer cope with, that is probably associated with another health condition. And having stepped out of that drinking culture it's really quite distressing watching so many of my peers stagger into a really unhealthy late middle age, much of which is clearly caused by alcohol. Although maintaining friendships is also challenging when you no longer join in. The absolute best thing about alcohol is its conviviality, and that's not easy to substitute.

 

[8ball]

A few of us were standing around after hours and having a bit of a lark. Some youngsters rode by on their bikes and shouted mocking abuse at us for being drunk, asking rhetorical questions about why we wanted to waste our money on alcohol, pollute our bodies, embarrass ourselves in public. It was both hilarious, and humbling.

Fuck me, the Taliban have won.

 

[T & P]

Kids these days, eh?

 

[Poot]

I also have offspring, and she's teetotal and none of her friends drink. A quarter of young people Uber 25 don't drink at all. That leaves three quarters drinking at least occasionally, but it's a massive difference to how it was when we were young, isn't it?

My boy will drink (wonder where he gets that from ) He likes a bit of drinking culture. But my girl is scathing! I admit that she's only 15 but to her it is absolutely unacceptable, And when her best mate drank too much vodka and puked everywhere she made sure she was safe and that her dad collected her, then refused to speak to her for two days

My girl has a lot of Muslim friends and her boyfriend is Muslim, but then my boy also has Muslim friends and non-Muslim friends who don't drink and is still an absolute booze hound so I don't know. It is clear to me that my girl considers herself very, very cool, whereas the boy doesn't give a shit. Don't know whether that's a factor.

 

[Serge Forward]

Kids these days, eh?

Trouble with kids these days is they've got too much respect for authority.

 

[PTK]

I gave up drinking alcohol for medical reasons more than forty years ago. I can testify to the huge social pressure, as a young person, that there was to indulge. Some people almost seemed to regard it as a personal affront when I drank a non-alcoholic drink in a pub. Being a non-drinker of alcohol, I have been able to see more clearly some of the absurdities indulged in by those who partake. For example, people almost missing their coach back to Birmingham from a demonstration in London, because they HAD to have a drink in a pub in London before returning.

 

[story]

That’s all good news then. Although there were probably more sober people in the background when we were all young than we remember.

That’s probably true, drunk people don’t seem to notice sober people, or they don’t notice that they’re sober. Although it’s also true that yiung’uns (here in London anyway) don’t drink anything like as much as we did back then.

I was out last night and stayed til the end. I was pretty sober. I mean I’d had a few but nothing like as much as everyone else, so I sat and watched the crowd at throwing out time, roaring and blurring their way through the dragged out goodbyes. Everyone was smiling and loving each other but it was like watching them through a monitor screen hooked up to an alternative dimension.

I’d wanted to leave far earlier but the person who was my +1 (so I didn’t want to bail on them) was staggering drunk, again, so I’d given up saying “I’m ready to go, are you ready to go” and just waited till the end (it was fine, I had other people to talk to). I suspect they were reluctant to leave with me exactly because I was sober and they wanted to stay in Drunk-land rather than find themselves alongside a citizen of Sober-ville. As soon as we hit the outdoors they were staggering and leaning on walls so I’m glad I waited to make sure they got home safe. But what a fucking drag.

lazythursday was saying about how secondary drinking does have an immediate impact. I love this person a lot but the drunk version is a drain on my time and energy. I once lived with someone with a drink problem. Even when they were working on being sober the drink was front and central. Aside and on top of everything else, it’s so boring.

I’ve been dependent during hideous times in my life but fortunately I don’t have an addictive personality so once the hideousness was gone, so was the problem drinking (I was getting falling over drunk alone at home on bottles of cheap scotch.) so it’s not that I don’t understand the need to drink, and I know how awful addiction is (lots lots of good dear friends to various substances over the years).

I like a booze buzz. But I loathe and detest the way drinking culture is so powerfully promoted and supported. Greetings cards, jokey t.shirts, the constant assumption that we’re all just biding our time til wine o’clock.

Imagine if tobacco or any other drug were promoted in the same way. Seriously, next time you see a reference to drinking on a birthday card imagine switching out the booze for smack or coke and then say it’s okay to promote alcohol like that.

 

[story]

My boy will drink (wonder where he gets that from ) He likes a bit of drinking culture. But my girl is scathing! I admit that she's only 15 but to her it is absolutely unacceptable, And when her best mate drank too much vodka and puked everywhere she made sure she was safe and that her dad collected her, then refused to speak to her for two days

My girl has a lot of Muslim friends and her boyfriend is Muslim, but then my boy also has Muslim friends and non-Muslim friends who don't drink and is still an absolute booze hound so I don't know. It is clear to me that my girl considers herself very, very cool, whereas the boy doesn't give a shit. Don't know whether that's a factor.

I think it is considered cool not to get drunk, stay sober. A lot of youngsters have decided that they won’t swear too. I really notice it when I’m effing and jeffing and they’re not.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think it is considered cool not to get drunk, stay sober. A lot of youngsters have decided that they won’t swear too. I really notice it when I’m effing and jeffing and they’re not.

Bunch of cunts.

 

[Poot]

I think it is considered cool not to get drunk, stay sober. A lot of youngsters have decided that they won’t swear too. I really notice it when I’m effing and jeffing and they’re not.

Ha! Those youngsters do NOT live in my house, let me tell you!

 

[story]

Ha! Those youngsters do NOT live in my house, let me tell you!

Maybe it's more that I'm now so old they think I might be offended if they do.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Thinking about it, it may be age that has put the kibosh on my alcohol consumption. The last time I was really drunk, it took a couple of days before I felt back to normal.

Drinking on holiday, in the heat, is different somehow. I would normally not drink at all until after dinner, and then drink maybe five large brandies between then and midnight, but was fine the next day. If I drank five large brandies tonight I'd have a banging head tomorrow.

 

[xenon]

It has become denormalised, has it not? Not amongst our generation, maybe. But Gen Z seem to barely touch a drop of the stuff.

Still seem to be plenty 20 somethings in the pubs I use. Maybe they aren’t is drinking as much, or staying there for an all day session. But then neither am I. These days. Well not often.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

That’s probably true, drunk people don’t seem to notice sober people, or they don’t notice that they’re sober. Although it’s also true that yiung’uns (here in London anyway) don’t drink anything like as much as we did back then.

I was out last night and stayed til the end. I was pretty sober. I mean I’d had a few but nothing like as much as everyone else, so I sat and watched the crowd at throwing out time, roaring and blurring their way through the dragged out goodbyes. Everyone was smiling and loving each other but it was like watching them through a monitor screen hooked up to an alternative dimension.

I’d wanted to leave far earlier but the person who was my +1 (so I didn’t want to bail on them) was staggering drunk, again, so I’d given up saying “I’m ready to go, are you ready to go” and just waited till the end (it was fine, I had other people to talk to). I suspect they were reluctant to leave with me exactly because I was sober and they wanted to stay in Drunk-land rather than find themselves alongside a citizen of Sober-ville. As soon as we hit the outdoors they were staggering and leaning on walls so I’m glad I waited to make sure they got home safe. But what a fucking drag.

lazythursday was saying about how secondary drinking does have an immediate impact. I love this person a lot but the drunk version is a drain on my time and energy. I once lived with someone with a drink problem. Even when they were working on being sober the drink was front and central. Aside and on top of everything else, it’s so boring.

I’ve been dependent during hideous times in my life but fortunately I don’t have an addictive personality so once the hideousness was gone, so was the problem drinking (I was getting falling over drunk alone at home on bottles of cheap scotch.) so it’s not that I don’t understand the need to drink, and I know how awful addiction is (lots lots of good dear friends to various substances over the years).

I like a booze buzz. But I loathe and detest the way drinking culture is so powerfully promoted and supported. Greetings cards, jokey t.shirts, the constant assumption that we’re all just biding our time til wine o’clock.

Imagine if tobacco or any other drug were promoted in the same way. Seriously, next time you see a reference to drinking on a birthday card imagine switching out the booze for smack or coke and then say it’s okay to promote alcohol like that.

It's very interesting watching drunk people now that I don't drink. I gave up booze completely about 2 and a half years ago. When I go out with drinkers now, it follows the same routine every time. It starts off okay, then after about 3 drinks you start to see a change. After 5 or more drinks, they get much louder - shouting even though they're sitting next to the person they're chatting to. Also lots of laughing at things that aren't very funny. After a few more they get slightly aggressive, and even louder. They repeat themselves and lose track of what they're talking about. By the end of the evening, some of them are away with the fairies and you know they're not going to remember much the next day. They stagger about, drop things, talk shit. This is when they lose their bags, phones, and other belongings.

I usually leave before the aggressive stage, because I can't actually stand it any more. I used to worry that people would be offended or annoyed that I'd left early, but soon realised that they didn't remember anything about it the next day.

 

[lazythursday]

@lazythursday was saying about how secondary drinking does have an immediate impact. I love this person a lot but the drunk version is a drain on my time and energy. I once lived with someone with a drink problem. Even when they were working on being sober the drink was front and central. Aside and on top of everything else, it’s so borin

Yep so very familiar. It can be so stressful extricating a drunk loved one from some sort of stupid confrontation, pleading with them to leave the pub, getting them home without injury or incident, stopping them burning the house down when they get there. So draining. And embarrassing and tedious. And the next day they remember barely any of it.

 

[PTK]

I remember, years ago, going out with a friend of mine, and afterwards, as we walked back to his place, we were singing a number of songs and really enjoying it. I slept on his sofa, and the next day I remarked how much fun it had been singing as we walked along the road, and he could not remember. How much enjoyment in life has been forgotten like that?