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critique of loon theories around banking/money creation/the federal reserve

1. Sihhi pasted an article.
2. You replied to that post by saying
3. "The article you quoted earlier is credited to Robert H. Hemphill."

Now, if you meant a different article than the one that the post that you replied to contained it may have sensible for you to have said so - or maybe replied to the post containing the article.

And, just for the record, your Hemphill hero did also write for Father Coughlin's disgusting Social Justice anti-semitic rag - the one that contained all that red-baiting and open undisguised anti-semitisim. But, you, of course, would have no problem at all with that.

Searching via Hemphill's full name sees him as a retired manager from the Atlanta Federal Reserve - local branch of the lender of last resort the Federal Reserve. He becomes an associate of Irving Fisher - and in 1934 writes the foreword to Fisher's 100% Money - (a manifesto for outright gold-backed currency one-dollar must equal one fraction of an agreed gold weight, no gold no banks).
It is supported by a group of University of Chicago economists who in late 1933-early 1934 attack Roosevelt's proposals for serious Keynesian reform.
Its thrust is clear: "Our government has, in a significant sense, allowed the commercial banks to usurp its primary function of controlling the currency. Bank credit has become the predominant element in our circulating medium. Until the Civil War we tried 'free banking' with respect to note issue; at present we are still trying 'free banking' with respect to deposit currency. The latter system, like the former, gives us an unreliable and unhomogeneous medium; and it gives us a regulation or manipulation of currency which is totally perverse. Money is created when it should be destroyed, and destroyed when it should be created. Our much heralded achievements in control (witness the Federal Reserve System), being designed to yield greater "elasticity" of credit, have served only to aggravate the underlying difficulty."

ie credit should be restricted - that's what all this talk of usury amounts to - stop credit but carry on capitalism, its language is for "the outright abolition of deposit banking on the fractional-reserve principle."

FIsher's position is anti-Federal Reserve and anti-nationalisation of all banking (a standard demand of the CPUSA and its slowly but steadily growing "front" organisations). Fisher says "There is much talk today of nationalizing our entire banking system. I believe this would be a mistake. All I would do is to take over the monetary work of banks, leaving real banking to bankers. This is the true American way. Banking, ie money lending, should be left to individual enterprise just as much as railroading or insurance or farming or the grocery business. But banking should not include the manufacture of money"

Hemphill and Fisher are part of the "respectable" intellectual opposition to Roosevelt, likewise the business community and army is making plans in secret in case the trade unionisation drives become too serious.

At the same time as all this we have an essentially religious Christian - (Protestant and Catholics unite) - social movement - Father Coughlin's Social Justice on the back of his radio broadcasts - supportive of Huey Long popularising him well beyond Louisiana. As it grows it comes into conflict with the Catholic church (a basically conservative body) - its only recourse is to focus on non-Christian enemies. By 1936, Coughlin is wholly against Roosevelt who is a "great betrayer and liar ... who promised to drive the money changers from the temple, but has succeeded only in driving the farmers from their homesteads and the citizens from their homes in the cities."
It urges the Dixiecrats "to purge the man who claims to be a Democrat, from the Democratic party, and I mean Franklin Double-crossing Roosevelt." It also begins using open antisemitism in the face of the threat of "foreign entanglements" from about 1937 onwards.

Hemphill - a supporter of Fisher and member of the “Healthy Currency” movement as it's called - has no objection to writing for Social Justice in spite of its other antisemitic articles. 'I just do Environment News for the UKIP e-newsletter' - a tenable position?

This is the kind of stuff Hemphill is producing in a 9 May 1938 issue of Social Justice - 'Britain is doing well because it doesn't have the Federal Reserve':

socialjustice.gif


It's generic US right-wing populism - empty on its own terms, but able to create buzz. Even in its antisemitic phase over the years 1937-1940, after the failure of the 1936 populist candidate (when it was higher), Social Justice was able to command over a million subscribers - it wasn't empty fluff - the antisemitic resurgence in the late 1940s is explained in part by magazines like it.
 
even if you're not personally anti-semitic i would think that knowingly writing for an anti-semitic magazine means your personal ethics are a bit compromised to say the least. i would be horrified if i discovered that anything i wrote was being used for that kind of purpose.
 
No, you said the case was thrown out and nullified. I have corrected you to say that the judgment was nullified. This is completely different to the case being thrown out (in which case, the bank, as plaintiff would have lost) it is also very different to the judgment being overruled. Legal terminology has precise meanings and the distinctions are crucial. If you don't appreciate those differences then please don't bother discussing them.

This is ironic coming from you. :D
 
No, you said the case was thrown out and nullified. I have corrected you to say that the judgment was nullified. This is completely different to the case being thrown out (in which case, the bank, as plaintiff would have lost) it is also very different to the judgment being overruled. Legal terminology has precise meanings and the distinctions are crucial. If you don't appreciate those differences then please don't bother discussing them.
Technically, I don't think you can lose the case if the judge rules there is no case to answer. Seeing as we're all being legally precise and whatnot.
 
Technically, I don't think you can lose the case if the judge rules there is no case to answer. Seeing as we're all being legally precise and whatnot.
What happened was that a JP massively over-estimated what they were fit to or legally allowed to judge on (basically it was a sort of small claims court ran by someone whose real legal role is to conduct marriages and such like) and so his judgement was almost immediately nullified - thrown out.
 
What happened was that a JP massively over-estimated what they were fit to or legally allowed to judge on (basically it was a sort of small claims court ran by someone whose real legal role is to conduct marriages and such like) and so his judgement was almost immediately nullified - thrown out.
He's not on about that stupid TV licence case again is he? He's already had his arse handed to him on a plate on that thread, and the nanothermite thread, and the earthing thread, and the 'I can't believe it's not butter thread', to name but 4 this month.
 
I've had quite a lot of people telling me lately about how banks "create money out of nothing", how the federal reserve is a "Ponzi scheme" and other such nonsense. Now I know this is a load of bollocks but I don't really know enough about the way modern banking works to debunk them and explain what's really going on. (The least mental lot I've come across putting this stuff out have been a group called "Positive Money" but their theories are just a re-heated version of the Zeitgeist nonsense).

A slightly less mental, but I think equally incorrect, version says that interest is the reason why our economy requires year on year compound growth. Even some otherwise clued up commentators appear to believe this. I know it's bollocks too, and I am just about able to explain why capitalism requires this regardless of usury. But I'm not all that patient and can't generally be arsed to write out an essay or make a 10 minute speech every time I come across it (especially as it would be so badly written that nobody would bother reading/listening to it).

So I was wondering, does anyone know of a decent (preferrably Marxist, since I think Marx's theories explain why compound growth is essential for capitalism better than any other) critique of this crackpot shit? And if not does anyone have the patience/knowledge to write one out? Ideally I'd like something I can either link to, C&P or print out and give to people when I encounter this.

And is anyone else coming across this stuff more and more, even from people who really should know better?

I sent this to SN yesterday but might as well post it for all to see, especially as two of you appear to be colossal ignoramuses.

Ann Pettifor covers these issues and more in a 30 page review essay of Geoffrey Ingham’s Capitalism

The power to create money ‘out of thin air’
Understanding capitalism’s elastic production of money and moving on beyond Adam Smith and ‘fractional reserve banking’.

http://www.primeeconomics.org/wp-co...he-power-to-create-money-out-of-thin-air5.pdf

Contents
Title Page
Introduction 3
Regulatory capture and recourse to complexity 7
The great divide in economics 9
Bankers as ‘intermediaries’ 11
The stories economists tell about money 11
The argument rages: Paul Krugman 12
Keynes and the doctrine of private credit-creation 13
The myth of ‘fractional reserve banking’ 15
The Chicago School and ‘fractional reserve banking’ 18
The Chicago Plan re-visited 19
Let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater 21
Central banks and quantitative easing 23
Governments, ‘independent’ central banks & money 24
Private credit-money & the subordination of the state 25
Private markets as a ‘creditor god’ 26
Blaming the inflation of the ‘70s on its victims 27
Ingham’s list: the missing economists 28
Conclusion 29
 
He's not on about that stupid TV licence case again is he? He's already had his arse handed to him on a plate on that thread, and the nanothermite thread, and the earthing thread, and the 'I can't believe it's not butter thread', to name but 4 this month.
He's on about some other meaningless case from 40+ years ago where a registrar decided that jazzz is legally correct.
 
Here is an article that Hemphill wrote for Social Justice in November 1938. It's not directly anti-semitic - no mention of Jews or Jewesses - but instead of focusing on other multi-national financial firms it picks out "the Rothschilds" as being the only one that matters because the others are in hock to it.

This group then likely no mote than 200 separate firms— dominated in the final analysis, by the Rothschilds family — own and control about all the money in the world that is available for large scale financing. They can and do finance both sides of any modern war. No large scale war would be possible without their permission and co-operation.

Right at the bottom of the seventh column it states that the Rothschilds put Hitler into power (1933) and Mussolini (1922)

hemphill.jpg


Its solution is 100% American banking: "This fraternity of [Rothschild-controlled] International Bankers dominates but does not actually own the 16,000 independent commercial banks of this country. Their domination could be dissipated. ...
We are more nearly autonomous economically, than any other nation, and with a determined government, willing to pass the necessary measures controlling the import or export of goods and capital, we could insulate this nation from the foreign section of these financial hi-jackers."

The same issue has an article on behalf of the south with the essential background of the thing racialist but not outright neo-Confederate. it is an updated form of 'conspiracy against the South' 'the northern Yankees that caused the war':

hemphillp18.jpg




It explains later: "Long before the South was ground under the banker's heel by a vicious money system that has pauperized it for seventy-five years, her greatest son, Thomas Jefferson, at the dawn of our Government, pointed to the poverty and inevitable depressions that would flow from our present money machine. Jefferson told Southerners and the rest of us that our eyes were not open to the true cause of our economic woes. For seventy-five years the South tag been running around in circles, placing the blame on everything and anything as the cause of its poverty without once alighting on the true reason that Jefferson's unerring instinct seized upon as far back as 1791 when our present money machine was devised by a banker Alexander Hamilton."

The problem, apparently, is "the moneyless condition of the South" caused by northern bankers (a similar story was spun by neo-Confederate tendencies lurking within the KKK etc - the north never gave the South the finances to reform its agricultural system to reform slavery appropriately, the north gave all the finances to the blacks in "Radical Reconstruction" a vile myth) Ron Paul today still basically explains that slavery could have been ended by simple discussions and the north treating the South more fairly.
 
Coughlin isn't the only figure - the positions advocated by certain posters are worthless and/or dangerous depending on the circumstances (empty sleight-of-hand and ultimately relying on slave-owner anti-barbarians like Cicero or anti-semites like Henry Ford). It thrives by constantly, deliberately confusing Nazism and state socialism.

So in 1938 when Henry Wallace (to the left of Roosevelt, Agriculture Secretary and later 1948 CPUSA-supported Peace and Progress candidate) urges nationalisation of farmland in USA, Coughlin paints him as both Nazi and Communist. (He also supported nationalisation of banks - which banker conspiracists are also set against):

wallaced.jpg




When Coughlin begins to attract heat from the Church again and the wider press after his antisemitic coverage - he allows select Americanised non-Yiddish speaking Jews to write in his publication to assert Jews hate socialism more than anyone else and want to see it removed from labor unions. He begins the line of attack that he is saving Jews from a Nazi-like fate:

nazism.jpg


This stuff has been in Britain before - look at the New Party Oswald Moseley formed and Strachey, AJ Cook and others were able to sign up to, it attacks finance capital - particularly international finance capital - as the source of the 1929 Depression and Britain's problems.
Obviously Moseley went on to form a BUF, taking the conspiracy of big finance one step further to Jewish big finance.

Coughlin's movement doesn't pick up adherents at the outset by this kind of stuff - that comes after generalised populism - the farmers are poor, the sharecroppers are told to move on, the workers have no jobs, our children are starving; the hypocrite immoral un-Christian rich are doing well though; stick close to one another and Jesus radio broadcasts that Coughlin is popular for.
 
The Hemphill article is bang on in no respect, and virtually all of its facts and assertions (barring its point about the relative isolation of American economy) are wholly false. it outlines a Rothschild conspiracy against the world controlling both sides in any inter-nation war.

This is still asserted by racist anti-Illuminati US conspiracists such as Andrew Carrington Hitchcock - "1929: The Rothschilds crash the United States economy by contracting the money supply." the claim that international finance in and of itself provoked the Great Depression.

and anti-semitic British conspiracist David Icke: "Rothschild means Red-shield and it originates with the red shield 'Star of David' symbol (not a Jewish symbol before the Rothschilds) which they displayed on their house in Frankfurt. The very flag of Israel tells you who owns it. There are many reasons why the Rothschilds and their allies wanted to hijack Palestine and one was to keep the Middle East in a state of disruption and turmoil from which a global war can eventually be triggered to usher in the New World Order of world government dictatorship. The creation of Israel is a means not an end and the Rothschilds will be quite happy to leave the Jewish population to their fate if it suits them. After all, they've done it before." ie that Rothschilds eased Hitler into power

and general End the Fed conspiracism: "Zionist Jews own and run the Federal Reserve Bank that the US government continually borrows from...and is in debt to. Napoleon said: When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency. The Federal Reserve Bank is a consortium of 9 Zionist Jewish-owned & associated banks with the Rothschilds at the head"
 
Rothschild... Jewish... Israel ... Palestine ... Jewish ... Rothschilds... Zionist Jewish-owned & associated banks with the Rothschilds at the head

You're beginning to sound a tad weird and obsessive tbf.

Why are you going on about magazine articles from the 1930s, instead of concentrating on the many lucid critiques of usury that are being published today?

This one is especially good, I don't suppose any of you lot have read it?

http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Nation-Corporate-Criminals-Corruption/dp/030795255X
 
Coughlin... anti-semites like Henry Ford... Nazism... in 1938 when Henry Wallace...Roosevelt.... Coughlin... Nazi and Communist.... nationalisation of banks... non-Yiddish speaking Jews... Jews hate socialism... saving Jews from a Nazi-like fate... Oswald Moseley... Jewish big finance.... un-Christian rich ... Coughlin

You're definitely barking up the wrong tree, and may well be barking mad too.

All of this is quite historically interesting, in a mad, obsessed sort of way but it has nothing to do with today's critiques of usury. It is stupid and dangerous to suggest that it does.

This does, on the other hand. I don't suppose anyone here knows it?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Payoff-Wall-Street-Always/dp/1935212966/ref=pd_sim_b_3
 
ultimately relying on slave-owner anti-barbarians like Cicero

Got to say though, this is good. Absolutely insane, but good stuff.

I've honestly never encountered anyone who was against Cicero before.

What about slave-owner anti-barbarian Socrates? Any opinion? Going to denounce Western culture's 'ultimate reliance' on him too?
 
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