Crisis in Working Class Representation

[JCravitz]

In an important initiative aimed at shifting the political debate away from the cuts and pro-business agenda of the three main parties, transport union RMT is convening a conference on the “Crisis in Working Class Representation” in London this Saturday (7th November).

The RMT-sponsored conference comes at a time of increasing industrial militancy and will look at harnessing rank and file anger at attacks on jobs, pay, conditions and pensions into a co-ordinated political voice. The event will also bring together climate activists, pensioners, students, anti-racists and campaigners from both Britain and Ireland continuing the fight against the issues at the core of the Lisbon Treaty.

Did anybody go?

 

[love detective]

yes it was woeful

 

[Stoat Boy]

Its organisations such as the BNP and the EDL who are leading the way in working class representation in modern Britain.

Did they get an invite ?

 

[smokedout]

Its organisations such as the BNP and the EDL who are leading the way in working class representation in modern Britain.

Did they get an invite ?

membership of a trade union - 6 million

membership of the bnp - 12,000

memership of edl - probably about 30

lets keep a sense of perspective

 

[CyberRose]

membership of a trade union - 6 million

membership of the bnp - 12,000

memership of edl - probably about 30

lets keep a sense of perspective

How many people voted for those trade unions compared to the BNP? That's what determines the level of representation, not membership numbers...

 

[trevhagl]

membership of a trade union - 6 million

membership of the bnp - 12,000

memership of edl - probably about 30

lets keep a sense of perspective

He IS a Tory cunt though so what do you expect?

 

[trevhagl]

How many people voted for those trade unions compared to the BNP? That's what determines the level of representation, not membership numbers...

Trade unions haven't got a party to vote for.

 

[CyberRose]

Trade unions haven't got a party to vote for.

So would you say they represented anybody politically (rather than in the work space) considering most of their members will vote for somebody in elections to represent them?

 

[agricola]

Trade unions haven't got a party to vote for.

In that case they shouldnt have thrown millions of pounds (more than five million in the case of the CWU alone since 97) at the Labour Party. Lets face it, given the incredible weakness of the party finances - which are now (and have been for some time) almost totally reliant on the union contributions - the unions have done an especially shit job of using that influence to change policy.

 

[TAE]

How many people voted for those trade unions compared to the BNP? That's what determines the level of representation, not membership numbers...

 

[Zeppo]

Well said agricola. Unions like PCS are not affiliated to any party and passed a motion at this year's conference to stand trade union candidates on a platform of protecting public sector jobs/values. Whether this sees the light of day - who knows.

A general election coming and a left party supporting working class aspirations is nowhere. SP have campaigned for yours for a new workers party - where is it? RMT pushing for some sort of initiative. Respect tiny in a few areas. SWP sends out an open letter for something to happen.

Here we are in a recession, millions on the dole giving monies to banks to prop up a discredited financial system. It should be a great time for the left but it is in a sorry state in the UK. Depressing but we must be hopeful. The struggle continues - it is not over yet.

 

[Blagsta]

How many people voted for those trade unions compared to the BNP? That's what determines the level of representation, not membership numbers...

People choose to join trade unions y'know! Trade unions don't stand in elections.

 

[Blagsta]

So would you say they represented anybody politically (rather than in the work space) considering most of their members will vote for somebody in elections to represent them?

Most trade unions are affiliated to the Labour party.

 

[CyberRose]

People choose to join trade unions y'know! Trade unions don't stand in elections.

But surely the point of this thread (and the conference) is about representing people's political views, presumably in the various legislatures in this country (how else can you represent somebody in this context?).

Somebody said the BNP is "leading the way in working class representation in modern Britain", to which somebody else said trade unions have six million members. But I don't think the number of people in trade unions has any bearing on the level of "representation" in the political world (ie in elected politicians) other than what you say below...

Most trade unions are affiliated to the Labour party.

True, but would any one here be happy to acknowledge that the trade unions represent working class interests through the Labour Party? I don't think so, because that would mean the Labour Party represents the interests of the working class (which they do more than any other of the major political parties but not enough to make people here happy with that level of representation)

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

... because that would mean the Labour Party represents the interests of the working class (which they do more than any other of the major political parties but not enough to make people here happy with that level of representation)

not even that is true. Compass had a list of 10 demands for the right wing filth-party they work so hard for. 6 were Libdem policy. 0 were Labour. (9 were Green).

People who say that Labour are the major party of the working class are missing out the word "betraying".

 

[e19896]

People choose to join trade unions y'know! Trade unions don't stand in elections.

Bob Crow had a couple of good lines…’The choice between voting Labour and Tory is like choosing between being stabbed or hanged’…….he then welcomed Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn onto the platform and said what a top geezer Labour MP John McDonnell is!!

There were about 400 people present and Idont doubt their sincerity – it’s just that like the anarchists no one can agree with the others unity schemes because they all have one they made earlier. All white audience mainly made up of well seasoned working class blokes in their 40s and 50s – a surprising lack of youngsters and none of the 15-17 year olds you see in the anarchist scenes. Most speakers apart from Crow sincere but boring – no sense of excitement or dynamism or momentum. The usual banal programmes based around nationalisation and anti-Euro bashing – hardly likely to attract our class away from the BNP. Without the charismatic Crow this would be dead in the water. With the charismatic Crow it’ll still be dead in the water.It’ll be an annual event – Auld Lang Syne comrades?

Ian Bone​

 

[CyberRose]

not even that is true. Compass had a list of 10 demands for the right wing filth-party they work so hard for. 6 were Libdem policy. 0 were Labour. (9 were Green).

People who say that Labour are the major party of the working class are missing out the word "betraying".

I think your reply kinda proved my point...

 

[Lo Siento.]

How many people voted for those trade unions compared to the BNP? That's what determines the level of representation, not membership numbers...

well, in that case the three main parties clearly lead the way ´in working class representation´. And joining a trade union is a far greater commitment than voting, and involves a far greater amount of actually acting on your convictions.

 

[CyberRose]

And joining a trade union is a far greater commitment than voting, and involves a far greater amount of actually acting on your convictions.

That's all and well but surely the point of a conference entitled "crisis in working class representation" is about working class people being represented in politics? Ie where laws are made

 

[love detective]

Ian Bone​

there was no more than 250 people there and as for the audience being made up of mainly working class folk that's bollocks, reminded me of a typical respect type meeting (by the way there was black people there, they were serving the tea)

bob crow not only welcomed the labour MP's, but said he's be out campaigning for mconnell in may - given he said this not long after saying labour and the tories are the same, presumably he'd have no problem campaigning for a 'decent' tory mp

i'd say joe higgins was the most convincing and believable/consistent speaker there

 

[nightbreed]

Turnouts at elections are falling and have been over the last 15 or more years.

Why are socialists bothering at this time with elections? Over the last 3 general elections the many left of labour initiatives have been failures. Wait and hope any longer and you will become as jaded and cynical as Taffboy!

Wouldnt it be better to wait until you have an audience? In particular a working class one?

Personally I see all the political action taking place in the Unions through Industrial struggle. Diverting attention from this to fold thousands of leaflets for a lost deposit is pointless.

 

[TAE]

No one can vote for a union in an election, but the unions obviously represent their members (it's what unions do).

 

[Grandma Death]

Speaking as a Unison activist there will always be a crisis in working class representation as long as unions hound out activists within their own ranks. Unison have spent a considerable amount of time and money attacking four members of the Socialist Party yet within their own ranks following the leaks of the BNP list there are some 150 BNP members. Those four Unison members have very little recourse and the way disciplinarys are held within the party is frankly Stalinist.

 

[Manzil]

I was at Socialism this weekend, but several comrades from our branch attended the RMT conference beforehand as well. Their reports to us had most delegates supporting the call for a new workers' party and the dissidents being loudly criticised. Bob Crow at the Socialism rally on Saturday evening openly came out for a new party.

That said, RMT representatives during the weekend's discussions were careful to preach caution. For instance the need to support (or not stand against) socialist Labour MPs like McDonnell and Corbyn was presented as a deal-breaker (rightly so, I think - although only some nutter from the Alliance for Green Socialism seemed to think that they should be opposed as accessories to 'New Labour'). Plus they reminded everyone that due to its internal review the PCS won't be coming out behind a party before the next election. Plus the absence of any commitments by the POA or the FBU.

Generally though I feel this weekend was another careful step towards realignment.

 

[agricola]

Generally though I feel this weekend was another careful step towards realignment.

Surely its far too late for realignment though? They have had for a considerable time the means with which to influence Labour policy and have utterly failed to do so. As for conducting an "internal review" before this election, frankly that is cowardice of the worst kind and will no doubt be replaced by "well, we have to fight the Tories..." once they win.

Of course what makes everything much worse is that, if they had influenced Labour policy, the Labour party would be in a considerably better position electorally and politically than it currently is (and the country would be in a much better position financially as well). To take the railways as one example, had they enforced the 1997 Labour manifesto committment to renationalization then we would have had a cheaper (both to users and in terms of subsidy), safer and almost certainly better railway.

 

[JimPage]

what in practical terms was agreed for the General election?

 

[love detective]

that if they have one last big push and keep doing the same things as they've always done with the same people and the same methods preaching to the same dwindling (but already converted) bunch of people then it will be trebles all round

go back to your constituencies and prepare for oblivion

 

[Silver_Fox]

yes it was woeful

That's being too kind.

Probably one of the worse conferences I've been to and that's saying something.

You were given a leaflet as you went through the door saying that an alliance had been decided by Bob Crow, SP and CPB but that there was no name and nothing had been decided about the politics.

You could get involved by writing in to an email address. Great.

Then there were a series of tedious speakers, with Crow being the only one who was quite charasmatic (Matt Wrack wasn't too bad).

Speakers were taken by name, but the chair pretended that they were taking speakers from the floor.

Overall totally undemocratic, boring and nothing came out of it other than a stitch up and an email address.

 

[Silver_Fox]

Was also told that an SWPer asked if they could announce that Chris Harman had died and they were told they couldn't. Pretty low if true.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Was also told that an SWPer asked if they could announce that Chris Harman had died and they were told they couldn't. Pretty low if true.

why?