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[cupid_stunt]

If you intend to police the range of concerns expressed towards this outbreak by questioning some posters sanity, then you and I are probably destined for quite the bunfight.

I am objecting to comments like 'I think the NHS will very quickly be overpowered', from a poster that hasn't a fucking clue & has posted bollocks about bonfires of bodies in China, when I am talking to front-line NHS workers that have no concerns. And, posting that graph with the 'rather worrying' comment, when it isn't.

I am not objecting to anything you are posting, which is at least reasoned & considered, unlike those two plonkers above.

 

[Marty1]

Why is it worrying?

Those 105 quarantined are from the second rescue flight from Wuhan, almost 100 from the first flight were quarantined & have now been discharged after serving their 14 days, most likely these other 105 will be too.

Out of the 9 cases confirmed, 8 have recovered & been discharged.

Oh, didn’t know that, good to hear so many have recovered.

 

[maomao]

I am objecting to comments like 'I think the NHS will very quickly be overpowered', from a poster that hasn't a fucking clue & has posted bollocks about bonfires of bodies in China, when I am talking to front-line NHS workers that have no concerns. And, posting that graph with the 'rather worrying' comment, when it isn't.

I am not objecting to anything you are posting, which is at least reasoned & considered, unlike those two plonkers above.

sihhi speaks and reads Chinese and has reproduced and translated what is all over the Chinese Internet at the moment. I don't remember him saying that piles of bodies had definitely been burned I just remember him sharing some posts from Chinese social media that certainly got over the general mood in the country right now.

Without going too far into the naivety of your unconditional trust in UK authorities to tell the truth about everything those of us who have connections to China know that the Chinese state almost certainly is lying and that the truth is somewhere between the official line and the wildest rumours. I heard about SARS on the Chinese rumour mill a week or two before it ever hit the press in any country (just vague things about a deadly disease down South but turned out to be true).

And for those of us with friends and family in the middle of an epidemic it genuinely is a bit scary.

 

[Cid]

Canada is bringing home the boat people.
They will be quarantined at the Nav-Center near Cornwall.

I've stayed there a number of times. The building is set quite far back from the road that leads to Cornwall.

Fb person pasted the below link.

Canadian Coronavirus Patients from Diamond Princess Cruise Ship to be Moved to Cornwall Ontario a Really Bad Idea 021620 – The Cornwall Free News

cornwallfreenews.com

Not sure what the fuss is. Do they think that the quarantined will walk the several kilometers just to infect the town's residents? Does he think the people from Cornwall will try to sneak up on the complex?

He's probably been driven insane by that godawful website design.

 

[Limejuice]

And for those of us with friends and family in the middle of an epidemic it genuinely is a bit scary.

And how!

My daughter's in Vietnam. The official figures show 16 cases with 6 recovered. But the word on the street is that there are dozens or hundreds more cases.

The rumour spreaders point to entire towns in quarantine. But this is normal for Vietnam, which is uncompromising in its action to stamp on epidemics.

(During the SARS thing, one man felt ill and was taken to a particular hospital in Hanoi. The medics did the right thing by notifying the authorities they had a suspected case of a reportable disease. Within 1.23 minutes, police arrived and padlocked the doors shut, posted armed cops around the building, and told everyone - staff, patients, visitors, etc - they were under a compulsory quarantine for 14 days. Anyone trying to escape would be shot. They'd try to remember to send food in and good luck!)

Consequently, my daughter's native mistrust of official numbers and propaganda (and despite the shiniest gloss on the situation from the government, Vietnam's tourist industry collapsed in a week) is balanced by her personal contacts feeding (supposedly) on-the-street, terrifying "facts" about the real scale of infection.

To her personal knowledge, the schools she teaches in near Hanoi have been closed for 2 weeks, and won't reopen until mid-March. A town of 40,000 north-west of Hanoi with 6 suspected cases has been closed entirely by the military - it's close to the China border, and a lot of people have been ignoring the government health protocols.

With no money coming in, my daughter's luckily in a position to bail out and travel to Australia (or even home to Blighty!) thanks to the Bank of Mummy or the kindness of Mastercard. But her employers are desperate to keep her since nearly all their other teachers have gone away, often without notice. She genuinely feels loyal to her schools and told us today she was missing her primary school kids like crazy. So she doesn't want to leave permanently. She just feels that if nothing's happening with work for a month, she might as well become a tourist again.

My point is this: for people caught up in this Typhoid Mary hell, it's a complex situation, with conflicting information, domestic and financial pressures, with overwhelming confusion.

For their families, it is worse.

 

[two sheds]

I must be feeling particularly viscous today, because virulent, viable and virile all sound right to me.

not vicious?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Of course it must be worrying for people with family in China & other Asian countries, but perhaps posters haven't noticed the thread title 'British response'?

I've no idea why this thread wasn't merged with the main one from the start, as others were, but it should be now.

 

[elbows]

There are already some hints of what might be attempted here, I will try to cover some of them later today.

Looks like I wont cover this UK angle yet, too much of it is behind paywalls or lacking in the sort of detail I'd want before commenting.

Instead, a detail about the case detected in Egypt:

The confirmed case in Egypt is asymptomatic and was identified through contact screening of an Index case who travelled to Cairo between 21 January and 4 February on a business trip and tested positive for COVID-19 on 11 February in China.

From WHO EMRO | Update on COVID-19 in the Eastern Mediterranean Region | News | Media centre

As for the stuff from Japan I started talking about yesterday, today saw the next step in changing the message to the public there, in light of the 'new phase' they started talking about:

"We want to ask the public to avoid non-urgent, non-essential gatherings. We want elderly and those with pre-existing conditions to avoid crowded places," Kato said after a meeting of a panel of experts.

"I think it's important that we exercise Japan's collective strength. We wish to ask the Japanese people for their cooperation and it will take everyone being united to tackle this infectious disease," he told a press conference.

Kato said cases with no clear transmission chains and involving people who have not travelled to China, where the outbreak began, meant Japan was entering a new stage.

The government will draft fresh guidelines for doctors about when to suspect possible coronavirus infections and for ordinary citizens to know when to seek medical care.

Japan Health Minister Urges Public to Avoid Non-essential Gatherings, Stay away from Crowds & Trains - News18

Katsunobu Kato warned the nation was "entering a new phase" in the outbreak of the virus, which has infected nearly 60 people in Japan so far.

www.news18.com

 

[Limejuice]

posters haven't noticed the thread title 'British response'?

I'm in Britain: I posted my response.

 

[DexterTCN]

The Americans have taken their citizens off the Diamond Princess, the cruise ship 'under quarantine'..

 

[elbows]

The Americans have taken their citizens off the Diamond Princess, the cruise ship 'under quarantine'..

Some of them turned down the offer, because they didnt want another 14 days quarantine in the USA, or had other reasons. And it sounds like 40 tested positive so will be going to hospital in Japan.

Coronavirus: Japan cruise ship's US passengers home for further quarantine

Hundreds of US citizens who were on the coronavirus-hit Diamond Princess face further quarantine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[DexterTCN]

Some of them turned down the offer, because they didnt want another 14 days quarantine in the USA, or had other reasons. And it sounds like 40 tested positive so will be going to hospital in Japan.

Coronavirus: Japan cruise ship's US passengers home for further quarantine

Hundreds of US citizens who were on the coronavirus-hit Diamond Princess face further quarantine.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't think there have been any Americans so far. They'd (the US) probably want to get their hands on a couple.

 

[two sheds]

Yes that came to mind (not you specifically) when I read the post.

 

[spring-peeper]

Local vets are taking to facebook to assure pet owners that their dogs will not give them the virus.
They don't think it is a good idea to put masks on them while they are being walked.

I don't remember all this fuss with SARS.

My daughter was supposed to go on a field trip to Toronto during the SARS outbreak.
The school board canceled the trip.
Us parents kicked up a fuss and the school board let them go.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm in Britain: I posted my response.

It was supposed to be about the British response to it arriving in the UK, hence it being in the UK news forum, which TBH was already being discussed on the main thread, now the conversations have basically merged, with similiar information appearing on both threads.

 

[maomao]

Of course it must be worrying for people with family in China & other Asian countries, but perhaps posters haven't noticed the thread title 'British response'?

It was about the British response until you started throwing abuse at the OP for posts they'd made on the other thread

 

[Graymalkin]

Do they think that the quarantined will walk the several kilometers just to infect the town's residents?

There aren't many reasons to go to Cornwall in any circumstance.

 

[TopCat]

Japanese officials have confirmed a further 99 people have been infected by the new coronavirus aboard the quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess, bringing the total to 454, the health ministry said on Monday.

 

[TopCat]

Hell cruise.

 

[two sheds]

I'm in Britain: I posted my response.

How is this not a British response cupid_stunt ?

Keep British responses to British diseases

 

[TopCat]

All ramping up isn't it?

 

[weltweit]

Actually TopCat, I'm feeling a little better about it than I have done for a while. The small number of cases in the UK seemed to have petered out and it doesn't seem to have taken hold in other countries yet.

I am worried about Thailand Singapore India South Korea Hong Kong and Japan etc. I don't know how rigorous they are being in tracking down and isolating the cases that they have.

As to China I think they are doing everything that could be expected or hoped of them. At the moment the virus still seems to be spreading but the core area of Hubei is apparently locked down and the restrictions put upon the population just might slow it down.

What happens in the rest of China when people start returning to work is another question. As I understand it Foxconn plan a return to work this week and I know other companies hope to start some kind of production this week. It could be that a widespread return to work might trigger new infections outside of Hubei which would obviously be bad.

 

[TopCat]

Must be awful being on that ship. Especially if british knowing they dont give a fuck or worse one of the poor crew.

 

[weltweit]

Must be awful being on that ship. Especially if british knowing they dont give a fuck or worse one of the poor crew.

Yes good point .. hardly a dream cruise any more for the punters and as you say, hell for the crew.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Japanese officials have confirmed a further 99 people have been infected by the new coronavirus aboard the quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess, bringing the total to 454, the health ministry said on Monday.

Cant understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to leave people on that ship. It's a nightmare scenario.

 

[strung out]

I am worried about Thailand Singapore India South Korea Hong Kong and Japan etc. I don't know how rigorous they are being in tracking down and isolating the cases that they have.

What makes you say that?

 

[weltweit]

What makes you say that?

Well in the first instance our so called super spreader apparently caught the virus in Singapore, where according to the news they have only had a handful of cases. Just how unlucky was he that in his brief visit he managed to have close contact with one of this handful? It does not seem likely to me. More likely is that they have quite a lot of cases but are not admitting it for some reason.

 

[elbows]

I am worried about Thailand Singapore India South Korea Hong Kong and Japan etc. I don't know how rigorous they are being in tracking down and isolating the cases that they have.

Thats the thing about there seemingly being many mild cases, it further reduces the chances of discovering them all.

Take for example Singapore. a police state with decent healthcare. Their ability to do contact tracing is very advanced, but they are still going to miss cases. Obviously I cannot show you examples of missed cases, because nobody knows about them. But I can hopefully still demonstrate something via info about some cases there that were spotted late, and not picked up by healthcare system during initial multiple attempts by the person to get treatment:

Cse 48:

He reported onset of symptoms on 1 February, and had sought treatment at four general practitioner (GP) clinics on 2 February, 4 February, 7 February, 9 February and 10 February. He went to NCID on 10 February, and was subsequently confirmed to have COVID-19 infection on 11 February afternoon.

Case 64:

He reported onset of symptoms on 3 February and had sought treatment at two GP clinics on 5 February, 7 February, 10 February and 13 February. He was referred to the emergency department at NUH on 13 February. Subsequent test results confirmed COVID-19 infection on 14 February morning.
11. He is a taxi driver and prior to hospital admission, he had been working.

Case 66:

He reported onset of symptoms on 29 January and had sought treatment at a GP clinic on 2 February, 5 February and 12 February. He was referred to NCID on 12 February. Subsequent test results confirmed COVID-19 infection on 14 February morning.

Anyway there are other examples but I deliberately picked some of the worst ones (ones with longest date ranges between seeking treatment and getting diagnosed, most number of visits to different healthcare facilities during that time, etc). Many others were tested and found to be infected much more quickly than the ones I've listed. Point is, these particular cases were eventually spotted, but the criteria for who you suspect could have Covid-19 limits the ability to detect every case. ie No travel to certain regions or known contacts at the time, means they arent even looking for coronavirus in that patient. Presumably it was only a combination of persistence by the ill person, or a cluster/other cases being detected in the meantime that the new ill person can be linked to, that lead to eventual identification of these cases. For those in whom illness remains mild, there is unlikely to be the same level of persistence in seeking medical help, although some of them could still be picked up via contact tracing eventually. And its the same story in most other countries (though this will change eventually, as countries broaden the criteria in response to general community spread).

I got the info about cases from various daily updates from MOH | Updates on COVID-19 (Coronavirus Disease 2019) Local Situation

 

[cupid_stunt]

Well in the first instance our so called super spreader apparently caught the virus in Singapore, where according to the news they have only had a handful of cases. Just how unlucky was he that in his brief visit he managed to have close contact with one of this handful? It does not seem likely to me. More likely is that they have quite a lot of cases but are not admitting it for some reason.

He caught it at a business conference, some of the attendees were from China.

 

[Yossarian]

The Westerdam cruise ship sounds like it could be a worry - after it was turned away by several other countries, Cambodia allowed the more than 1,000 passengers to disembark after determining that none of them were sick. The passengers dispersed, most of them flying back to their home countries, and then one of them tested positive for the virus. Officials are now talking about trying to track down everyone who got off the ship and put them in quarantine for 14 days.