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[gentlegreen]

Don't know if you heard this but definitely worth a listen. (There's a particularly unexpected and heartbreaking bit from his consultant.)

BBC Radio 4 - The Reunion, The Covid-19 ward

Michael Rosen and the medical staff who cared for him during his battle with coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks - very moving

 

[LDC]

Yeah, the ICU stuff is heart breaking. People saying their goodbyes via a tablet/phone. Grim.

 

[The39thStep]

Portugal now off the UK government's red list. Still need to self isolate for twelve days and have two covid tests on return to the UK though.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Portugal now off the UK government's red list. Still need to self isolate for twelve days and have two covid tests on return to the UK though.

Ten days, PCR test before you head to the U.K., two lateral flow tests to be taken on days 2 and 8 of quarantine, optional PCR test on day 5, if negative you can leave quarantine but still must take day 8 test. All four tests will set you back £450-£550.

 

[stdP]

I think they're doing more damage to confidence by pausing. It's already 'the dodgy one' in a lot of Europe, this is going to confirm that reputation. I think what has damaged confidence is authorities making inappropriate public statements about a small possible side effect of a vaccine with very high benefits.

...

Edit to add - obviously if there were massive negative effects to it I would agree with suspending it. But this is not massive, though I understand it is upsetting for the few people concerned.

My partner's been volunteering in some local vaccine centres and snagged themselves a spare first dose two weeks ago before this all kicked off... and was reduced to a terrified wreck with their family freaking out about it completely; (the Italian press seemingly being their typically sensationalist selves about it, stoked further by social media bollocks from an anti-vaxxer cousin going around the family whatsapp) who were spouting complete bollocks; hundreds of people were already dead and thousands more were going to die if they'd already taken the AZ vaccine, UK is covering up the deaths that's why you don't know about it, etc etc.

I'm the more scientific of the two of us and I'm usually pretty good at explaining why reporting on XYZ is complete gash and how they've misunderstood the data or are misrepresenting the statistics, that sort of thing (something now seemingly confirmed by the WHO, EMA and others in the case of the AZ vaccine). But this went in to a full-blown panic complete with psychosomatic symptoms which has taken two exasperating days to crawl out of (including two of the doctors from the centre having to explain the same thing about all available data pointing to no statistically observable link).

Sanity has once again vaguely asserted itself in this household, but all of their family members who had booked a vaccine have now cancelled. It's all made me rather angry.

Anyway, depressing anecdote and venting over but here's a nice little article that echoes your same point (and was written before the whole blood-clot thing blew up seemingly out of all proportion):

AstraZeneca vaccine: careless talk has dented confidence and uptake in Europe

Stockpiles of this vaccine are going unused in France and Germany, and unfounded criticism of it may be partly to blame.

theconversation.com

 

[kabbes]

So yep, that deviancy amplification spiral is now WELL and truly in full spin mode. Somehow it’s even more depressing when you spot it starting.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

The EU UK vaccination thing is still rumbling on. It’s entirely down to the EU fucking up. Taking all of the UK’s vaccine supply would do little to dent what is a massive task for the EU. A task the USA has taken on, now vaccinating an amazing 3 million people a day. This is the scale the EU needs to be looking to achieve.
I’m puzzled why they can’t? They surely have the ability to make vaccines in every country.

Probably but profit, patents, etc

 

[LDC]

Giving the AZ/Ox this afternoon for the first time since this really hit the headlines. Expect a number of people will not turn up (or understandably will have questions) - will report back.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see both the president of the German Medical Association, and the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA, have spoken out against their governments suspending the roll out of the Oxford/AZ vaccine.

Frank-Ulrich Montgomery, the President of the German Medical Association, does not approve of the suspension either. He told the ‘Redaktionsnetzwerk Deutschland’, according to the studies he knew about, the frequency of cerebral vein thrombosis cases in the AstraZeneca groups and the placebo groups had been more or less the same. Montgomery warned of the damage to the vaccine’s image. The fuss surrounding the suspension of this “good and effective vaccine” would not exactly lead to a higher acceptance.

LINK

The decision by Germany, France and Italy to suspend AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 shots after several countries reported possible serious side-effects is a “political one”, the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA said on Tuesday. “We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one,” Nicola Magrini told daily la Repubblica in an interview.

Magrini said that the AstraZeneca vaccine was safe and that the benefit to risk ratio of the jab is “widely positive”. There have been eight deaths and four cases of serious side-effects following vaccinations in Italy, he added. Aifa will take two to three days to collect all required data and once “doubts are cleared we can carry on at a faster speed than before,” Magrini said.

LINK

 

[Supine]

Giving the AZ/Ox this afternoon for the first time since this really hit the headlines. Expect a number of people will not turn up (or understandably will have questions) - will report back.

Happy stabbing. Good work

 

[hitmouse]

I see both the president of the German Medical Association, and the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA, have spoken out against their governments suspending the roll out of the Oxford/AZ vaccine.

Thanks for that - I have a friend who's recently had the first AZ jab, and has been if not entirely freaking out, then at least responding with the sort of worry that you might have if you'd just put something in your body that half of Europe has now announced is potentially unsafe, and I'm sure lots of people must be in a similar position, so being able to share reassuring stuff from people who know what they're on about is helpful.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Thanks for that - I have a friend who's recently had the first AZ jab, and has been if not entirely freaking out, then at least responding with the sort of worry that you might have if you'd just put something in your body that half of Europe has now announced is potentially unsafe, and I'm sure lots of people must be in a similar position, so being able to share reassuring stuff from people who know what they're on about is helpful.

It's not just them, but both the UK & European regulators, plus the World Health Organisation, are all saying it's safe, and countries shouldn't be suspending their Oxford/AZ vaccination programmes.

Plus my SiL thinks it's nuts, and she's spent most of her life working in or running NHS labs, and knows shitloads of stuff that goes right over my head TBH.

 

[stdP]

The other half has said there'd been 12 cancellations of their AZ appointments today citing the news, thinking it was unsafe and/or wanting to wait for one of the other vaccines.

The good news is that three of the people were convinced to resume their jab after the doctor asked to talk to them and laid out their take on the situation. The remaining nine slots were filled from the standby list within 20 minutes.

 

[The39thStep]

Today in Portugal cafes and bars who don’t do home delivery can open for food and beverages for takeaway . Nipped out at lunchtime to sample the local places . Menu very limited to either fried pork rolls or thin beef stakes ( one bar said they would try to do one substantial meal a day) but you could get a coffee and a brandy or a beer and drink it whilst you wait . At one bar the mobile fish van appeared so had to indulge .

 

[teuchter]

Seeing the table wedged in the doorway there - such a familiar sight now in the UK too and presumably throughout Europe and much of the world.

It's strange in a way how quickly things become "normal". The idea that everywhere in Europe would be reduced to serving people through hatches with tables and chairs stacked up under dustsheets inside would have seemed quite shocking a little more than a year ago.

 

[Supine]

Nice fish!

 

[gentlegreen]

 

[gentlegreen]

The auto subtitles are a bit "interesting" - so best suited to Portuguese speakers ...

 

[LDC]

Giving the AZ/Ox this afternoon for the first time since this really hit the headlines. Expect a number of people will not turn up (or understandably will have questions) - will report back.

We had about 10 people not turn up today, out of about 200 or so, and usually they'd be a few at most. We also have hardly had any bookings for the other clinic this week so have had to cancel that. Fair few questions from people about the 'clotting issue'.

 

[The39thStep]

The auto subtitles are a bit "interesting" - so best suited to Portuguese speakers ...

I can understand bits, enough to make a little sense and tbh its mainly just a summary of what the Health meeting covered-cancer, covid vaccinations state of play. some exercise of lockdown measures and Portugal submitted an idea that the role of the EMA should be bigger and we need to look at cross border issues, fruitful meeting to exchange views , something about a Europe for Health. Thats it. Nothing to see tbh

Meanwhile, in reality (the following is my view, not hers) some EU countries are sitting on half the allocation which is stored in fridges, and that's on top of delivery and production issues. No countries have been singled out but the EU leadership is now pushed to say to them get your fingers out. There was an article in one of the biggest Portuguese papers Expresso ( a bit like the Guardian but with more backbone) that the EU bureaucracy has failed in vaccine delivery.

 

[miss direct]

Almost 17,000 new cases in Turkey today (and that's only the ones they are open about, AND with comparatively low numbers of tests). Not looking good.

 

[William of Walworth]

Almost 17,000 new cases in Turkey today (and that's only the ones they are open about, AND with comparatively low numbers of tests). Not looking good.

How much are vaccines being disributed/given in Turkey, miss direct ?

 

[miss direct]

Apparently 11 million people have had the (sputnik) jab.

 

[Teaboy]

Apparently 11 million people have had the (sputnik) jab.

What's the distribution likely to be out there? Apols if you don't know but I'm wondering whether the elderly will be prioritized all will it be a lot more political and economical then that?

 

[miss direct]

What's the distribution likely to be out there? Apols if you don't know but I'm wondering whether the elderly will be prioritized all will it be a lot more political and economical then that?

I believe over 65s have been prioritised. They're talking about teachers (hasn't happened) and tourism workers (seems daft unless the wider population is also vaccinated). Highly suspect members of the ruling party have also been prioritised, judging by regular scenes of mass gatherings like this:

 

[Sunray]

Can the rest of Europe donate their unused AZ vaccines to the UK now we are going to have a shortfall in April?

If they aren't going to use them, I reckon lots in this country would. If people were really worried let them take a single dose of the new NOACs that have replaced warfarin.
Very effective at preventing blood clots, quite safe. Wear off after 24 hours. This would be a higher risk to you for other things, but you're not having a blood clot.

 

[Idris2002]

Just seen that the president of Tanzania has died of Covid. He was a keen denier and anti-vaccination person.

 

[MJ100]

Just seen that the president of Tanzania has died of Covid. He was a keen denier and anti-vaccination person.

Looks like a "heart condition" rather than Covid according to Sky. Couldn't possibly be Covid given that, as we all know, Covid has been magically banished from Tanzania through prayer, right? If only we'd thought of that in the west!

 

[zahir]

Its a messy subject because clearly there has been politics involved with the vaccination programme for months. But at the same time I fully support precautionary principals, and being seen to take adverse reactions seriously is actually part of a sensible system to balance public perceptions and actual risk.

This looks like a useful article on the reasons for alarm:

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[elbows]

Just seen that the president of Tanzania has died of Covid. He was a keen denier and anti-vaccination person.

He didnt learn anything from the president of Burundi's death last year then. ( Burundi president dies of illness suspected to be coronavirus )

Those countries shared more than just a border in this pandemic it seems.