Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I read some police ground rules earlier which said you could drive short distances to go for walks. The qualifier was the walk should be a lot longer than the time taken to drive to the place. Hadn't seen that before. So, on one level we've got major restrictions in place in terms of work, pubs, restaurants, sport etc. But in reality, provided you don't do anything dickish you've really got the opportunity to go out a couple of times a day and even go for short drives. Realise that's NOT the actual policy, but it is something most people could easily get away with if they wanted.

I'm genuinely unsure whether that makes it a 'commonsense lockdown' or whether it's already a bit too frilly round the edges. Sometimes the problem with frilly ragged things is not how messy they are now, but whether the original ragged edges allow full on unravelling later.
 
Ah, OK. It is frustrating - both times I've been to Tesco the flour shelves have been bare. I've got about 750g of Lidl white bread flour left, and that's my lot. Oh, and the chapati flour - I might try baking a loaf with that, just out of curiosity.
Well bread itself is actually available, but I want to make my own, plus I also use flour fairly often for making a roux.
I guess in this lockdown situation we have more time to bake. . . and it's quite nice. Seems crazy that I've seen no flour in the shops for four weeks or more now. I was lucky to have two bags in the house. What a strange thing to become so precious.
 
These guys get a very easy ride at the daily press conferences. The US media gives Trump more shit at his than the kittens Raab has to deal with.
indeed.

Do you think the journalists and perhaps their questions are somehow vetted for the No 10 briefings? Certainly they know in advance who will be asking the questions.
 
indeed.

Do you think the journalists and perhaps their questions are somehow vetted for the No 10 briefings? Certainly they know in advance who will be asking the questions.

I think the fact it's not face to face anymore and instead video conferenced has helped the politicians. Trump still has to deal with journos interrupting him.

But no, I highly doubt the questions are vetted.
 
Gibberish. And I'm getting fed up finding myself in agreement with Piers fucking Morgan.



He's been attacking the Tories for a long time... to the point where they won't appear on his show. He's a strange character. You'd think he was right wing but he most definitely doesn't seem to be most of the time. I can't abide BBC breakfast so have resorted to GMB recently. It's definitely more entertaining!

He's just written an article for the Mail which I assume will mean he'll no longer be one of the 44 people Trump follows.

This was worse than just a meltdown.

This was the most undignified and pathetic display I have ever seen from any world leader, let alone the President of the United States – in the middle of a global crisis.

And where once I could occasionally defend his combative, abrasive style against what I have often felt has been an unfairly hostile media, I cannot defend this.

America is now the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis, and what is abundantly clear is that President Trump and his administration, like the government of my own country Britain, was shamefully late to recognize the severity of the COVD-19 threat and as a result has played catastrophically bad catch-up ever since.

This complacency left the US, and Britain, woefully underprepared when it’s come to having enough of the right tools to fight the virus – from Personal Protective Equipment for health workers to tests, ventilators, masks and other vital pieces of kit.

Yet when CBS White House Correspondent Paula Reid rightly challenged him about this inarguable lack of preparedness, Trump branded her disgraceful, a 'fake', and boasted he’d 'done a great job'.

But that wasn’t even his worst moment.

In a preposterous claim, Trump announced he has 'total authority' as President to make any decision he likes.

When asked if he could order state governors to remove lockdown restrictions and reopen the US economy, Trump replied: ‘When somebody is the president of the United States, the authority is total and that’s the way it’s gonna be. It’s total. It’s total. The governors know that.'

He was immediately challenged by CNN’s Kaitlan Collins who said, 'that is not true', and asked him which governors had agreed that he could overrule them.

'I haven’t asked anybody,' Trump snarled back. 'You know why? Because I don’t have to.'

When Collins courageously persisted, saying 'but who told you the president has total authority?’ Trump simply raised his finger and said: 'Enough.'

Yet she was right, and he was wrong.

 
How long do people think this is going to go on for? The lockdown?
Sixty seven days with no new cases in our district and partial restrictions are still in force, most restaurants still shut, schools too etc. Can go out and about locally though. Had to go to the tax office in town the other day and needed to have temperature check and show health code on my phone to get it. Then had to go to bank next door to pay and do the same. Been some new clusters in NE China and officials called in for dressing down over slack enforcement. Would think the UK might try to get back going quicker but not sure you should.
 
If this is even a bit accurate its pretty amazing evidence of the lockdown's effect - this is that self report ap, and it says that there's been a 70% reduction in symptomatic cases since the end of last month(?!)
Can that be right or is it just that at the start when the ap was launched everyone was self reporting but they've all got bored of it now?

 
Regarding easing of lockdown, there a good article here
agree with this completely. Basic premise is

"herd immunity is still suffusing much of what we’re hearing about the government’s response. For example, the message from the daily press conference is not that we should stop transmission and contain the virus, but rather that we should ‘protect the NHS’, the implication being that the ultimate number of deaths may be the same but that the sick can be offered an ICU bed and a ventilator if they are part of the unlucky 5% whose life will be threatened by the Coronavirus, along with the 50% survival chance that comes with it. "

We have clues what the coming easing of lockdown will mean, because messages are being dripped out buy the Tories. Schools look set to go back, or at least those outside of London. Some more shops will be added to the allowed to open list.

Going back to that article above, this is what opening schools means in practice:

"A key question that should be put to government scientists and ministers is: do you think that everybody will have caught the disease before a vaccine becomes available? It seems clear that the working assumption of government scientific advisors in the UK is that this is so. Therefore all you are trying to do is to spread out that incidence of disease — and the 1% mortality rate it entails — across the next 12 or 18 months. Given that assumption, it makes sense to allow schoolchildren and young people to be the first out of quarantine. They will spread the virus without putting undue pressure on the health service.

But for a policy based on containment and control, the young, as asymptomatic carriers, are some of the most dangerous citizens, since they make it hard to trace the spread of the virus. So reopening schools and allowing children to share the virus with granny only makes sense if your ideal is to work towards 60% of the population having encountered the virus, and accept the death toll that goes along with such a policy.

A strategy based on containment would keep schools closed and would, instead, identify industries and economic sectors that are most essential and can most easily introduce reliable social distancing and shut down other workplaces to protect employees. I would hope that the HSE has already requested all employers to draw up plans for social distancing that can be signed off by local environmental health departments."

-Easing of lockdown is in practice filling up hospitals and killing off (maybe immunising - we dont actually know that) more of the herd.
If you're hoping to go to a party or a pub, dont get too excited. Jims post is a good benchmark I think
Sixty seven days with no new cases in our district and partial restrictions are still in force, most restaurants still shut, schools too etc. Can go out and about locally though. Had to go to the tax office in town the other day and needed to have temperature check and show health code on my phone to get it. Then had to go to bank next door to pay and do the same. Been some new clusters in NE China and officials called in for dressing down over slack enforcement. Would think the UK might try to get back going quicker but not sure you should.
 
Walking around London this week, loads of construction work and road work has restarted this week, and the roads are definitely busier with cars and vans - roofers, scaffolders and others back to it. Lockdown may have been extended, but it is definitely changed this week back to something like it was in the first week. Parks still empty, people still observing social distancing impeccably almost universally. People that is who aren't working. Construction/road workers, as in the first week, not so much.
TBH, many of those of us who are still working find it more or less impossible to observe social distancing impeccably whilst carrying out our work to keep delivering the services that the rest of you depend on.

And as has been mentioned before, many working in construction and related fields (who may still be carrying out urgent and essential work, even if that isn't obvious to you) only get paid if they carry on working - no furlough and 12 week holiday on 80% pay for them.
 
Interesting things I learned today from my sons specialist who is a world leader in blood disorders and works at Tommies. Some are trivial and some are pretty interesting. Some are deffo being withheld to stop more panic.

  • BJ was never on a ventilator but was on a cpap machine and was "really quite poorly"
  • BJs hospitalisation coincided with a "massive" increase in "gardeners" working the hospital grounds
  • there are 138 ventilated patients and 330 patients on cPap
  • none of these are over 70. None of them are under 30
  • intakes into Tommies for Covid19 are decreasing
  • Covid19 came to the country from Birmingham Airport.
  • from tracing the bloods they now know the virus has about 400 strains in UK.
  • this is why some people show different symptoms. It's entirely possible to be exposed to hundreds of these strains and none of them will affect you.
  • the mutated strains seem to be where an infected person infects another person who has something wrong with them. This creates a mutation. Depending on the recipients underlying illness or combination of this creates a new mutation.
  • priority is to find a common strand for all mutations and halt that strand
  • the PPE we ordered was from China. There was enough for everyone but on testing it was found to be only 95% accurate.
  • Donald Trump invoked a law from after the second World War to prioritise buying all the stock from Roche in Germany.
  • our PPE and testing is behind because we had to wait for more stock from Roche.

Some interesting points in there, some of could explained the lack of pure public information in order to stop adverse public reaction in many forms
 
At least another month. Then it will be relaxed, and three - five weeks after that lots of people will start being admitted to Itu and it will all happen again.

This. None of this is a guess, it's all in the Imperial report. 12-18 months of varying lockdown to manage ICU capacity until we get a vaccine and/or we have some level of population immunity. That was more at you Mrs Miggins
 
Oh yeah, another thing. It's believed that like MERS and SARS you can't be reinfected. So although finding a vaccine is a priority, testing to see if people have already had it is just as important. If you've had it and survived it then you will most likely be allowed out of lockdown.

This will protect people still in isolation whilst at the same time allowing Herd Immunity to take a more controlled hold. General consensus is that HI is generally a Good Thing but that Covid19 moves and mutates too quickly at the moment to allow everyone out.

More when I remember! (but I think that's it)
 
That clapping thing is starting to really freak me out.

Not like the "donate a fiver to the NHS" thing. Im angry about that, the clapping thing freaks me out.

Why? Tonight for a couple of minutes I beat the crap out of a big old saucepan with a large metal spoon, just to get rid of some of my anger and sadness...it worked a bit.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
Ooh. One last thing.

It's very unlikely to be manufactured as its so complex in the way it evolves. It's most likely a byproduct of an infection in a Chinese Market where they store live animals for Chinese medicine - hence the origin thought to being Bat to Pangolin and then to human due to the percentage of shared dna (my word, I can't remember the real word) in the original version of it. Although (and this was the disclaimer) "none of us really believe the figures or anything that's coming out of China so we can't completely discount it"

And that's all from me :thumbs:
 
  • Covid19 came to the country from Birmingham Airport.

It came to the country from many independent sources. There were many 'seeds' over time. Many cases were missed, and they were expected to be missed. There is no meaning to trying to identify a single airport, our epidemic didnt start with one single case coming into the UK.

from tracing the bloods they now know the virus has about 400 strains in UK.

Many small changes happen. A whole bunch of UK samples genomes are available on the web and are visualised by the likes of nextstrain.

this is why some people show different symptoms. It's entirely possible to be exposed to hundreds of these strains and none of them will affect you.

At best a misleading oversimplification, at worst a complete load of rubbish.

the mutated strains seem to be where an infected person infects another person who has something wrong with them. This creates a mutation. Depending on the recipients underlying illness or combination of this creates a new mutation.

That isnt how mutations work with this virus. It is posssible that aspects of peoples underlying conditions may make them more susceptible to the virus being able to reproduce in far higher quantities. This means there may be more opportunities for mutation within such hosts, and more opportunities to shed a lot of the virus and infect others. But the mutations themselves are random errors, and indeed the rate of mutations for this sort of virus is reduced by the fact it does have some error checking built into its replication abilities. That reduces the speed of mutations, but does not prevent them completely. Point is, the sort of underlying condition you have does not determine what sort of mutations occur.

priority is to find a common strand for all mutations and halt that strand

Well when developing a vaccine you will want it to cover a broad range of the variants of the virus that are actually circulating in people. I expect thats what that point is supposed to be getting at.

the PPE we ordered was from China. There was enough for everyone but on testing it was found to be only 95% accurate.

PPE is a complex subject and there were a bunch of different failings, some of them over many years. There was never enough for everyone, there were some specific shipments from China that failed quality control checks but thats just one small piece of the story.

Donald Trump invoked a law from after the second World War to prioritise buying all the stock from Roche in Germany.
  • our PPE and testing is behind because we had to wait for more stock from Roche.

Half truths and misinformation. Our testing was behind because our entire attitude towards diagnostics testing in normal times and during pandemics was one that was rather limited by our general attitudes, funding and management structures relating to diagnostics labs. We simply didnt envisage testing on the mass scale that now seems entirely sensible and necessary. Once we decided that actually we needed to ramp up our testing capacity, then we ran into all sorts of supply issues and other bottlenecks, but these were not the original reason for our strategy and doing so badly compared to Germany.
 
Back
Top Bottom