Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[editor]

Awesome logic

Weekly round of applause for NHS staff – as it happened

Applause takes place after Dominic Raab leads meetings on Covid-19 physical distancing measures

www.theguardian.com

 

[Hollis]

SIX MILLION QUID!

Proper hero.

Hero Tom Moore's fundraiser passes £9,000,000 for the NHS

Captain Tom Moore, 99, has raised an incredible £8,000,000 for the NHS, smashing his original target to raise £1,000.

metro.co.uk

I don't dispute for a minute the good intention behind this, and I donated myself afew days ago... There are several things about it that make me less than totally comfortable... NHS should not be relying on charity funding for what are core services, and also a number of NHS charities are already sitting on millions and millions of investments.

 

[editor]

I don't dispute for a minute the good intention behind this, and I donated myself afew days ago... There are several things about it that make me less than totally comfortable... NHS should not be relying in charity funding for what are core services, and also a number of NHS charities are allready sitting on millions and millions of investments.

Fourteen million quid now.

What a brilliant swansong for the guy.

 

[ska invita]

Awesome logic

View attachment 207097

Weekly round of applause for NHS staff – as it happened

Applause takes place after Dominic Raab leads meetings on Covid-19 physical distancing measures

www.theguardian.com

im sure there is lots of logic there, thats the worrying bit - i would like to know what specifically they had in mind. Crash out Brexit here we come?

 

[andysays]

If they really think it's important to try to ease the restrictions before May 8th, just because it's the 75th fucking anniversary of VE day, then we truly are all doomed.

 

[LDC]

I don't dispute for a minute the good intention behind this, and I donated myself afew days ago... There are several things about it that make me less than totally comfortable... NHS should not be relying on charity funding for what are core services, and also a number of NHS charities are already sitting on millions and millions of investments.

Yeah, while I don't dispute he's probably a great bloke and it's a good effort the whole thing makes me a bit angry and pissed off the way it's being covered in the media and the fawning it's getting. Ditto with some of coverage and stuff over clapping.

 

[two sheds]

I take it you've never heard any of those stories of people dying after deciding that quackery is better than medicine.

Of course I'm not suggesting anything like that. People do all sorts of shit to themselves but I'm talking about in GP environment and has to be suitably prescribed. If people have life-threatening or painful or degenerative illnesses you obviously wouldn't use it.

Placebo isn't a treatment modality. It's literally meant to be all the trappings and appearance of treatment, without actually having any clinical effects. Sugar pills. Water.

Quite. The mind believes the body is being treated and in some way that in itself can bring remission.

Placebo "works" because there is such a thing as regression to the mean. Cancers do go into remission. People recover on their own. But if you want effective medicine, then whatever you're testing must do better than that.

But using placebos has more of an effect than no treatment at all. If placebos didn't "work" then drugs wouldn't be tested against them. In a certain percentage of people placebos are effective.

We don't know that it's purely regression to the mean. For example, even the colour of drugs can have an effect (first sentence of quote below), which would suggest there's something deeper going on:

Effect of colour of drugs: systematic review of perceived effect of drugs and of their effectiveness.

OBJECTIVE: To assess the impact of the colour of a drug's formulation on its perceived effect and its effectiveness and to examine whether antidepressant drugs available in the Netherlands are different in colour from hypnotic, sedative, and anxiolytic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CONCLUSIONS: Colours affect the perceived action of a drug and seem to influence the effectiveness of a drug. Moreover, a relation exists between the colouring of drugs that affect the central nervous system and the indications for which they are used. Research contributing to a better understanding of the effect of the colour of drugs is warranted.

 

[Wilf]

Yeah, while I don't dispute he's probably a great bloke and it's a good effort the whole thing makes me a bit angry and pissed off the way it's being covered in the media and the fawning it's getting. Ditto with some of coverage and stuff over clapping.

Yep, it's one of those things with a dual (or multiple) meaning. At one level, clapping and donating, the odd free coffee is great. It's a way of saying thanks to people who are stressed and risking their own health. But even at that level I'd be happier if care workers and supermarket workers were included in the same warm fuzzy feeling. At the other level, it's an ideological fog, a pretence that the government and the odd billionaire who has chipped a few quid in are on board with the idea of publicly funded health and wellbeing, when they've done nothing but destroy that idea.

I've no idea how long the fuzzy feeling will last and how much it will restrict the ability of johnson et al to further fragment public services and allow US firms into the drugs market. Whatever happens next will largely depend on what is left of the economy. However, leopards don't change their ideological spots. Fuck 'em.

 

[existentialist]

No agenda here. Nosirree. Totally innocent question.

Yeah, I got a whiff of "" off this one...

 

[existentialist]

No agenda whatsosever, littlebabyjesus, I was merely making an observation whilst asking a salient question.

Course you were.

 

[lefteri]

Do you think that is because this island, the size of a postage stamp is grossly overpopulated. After all, when the NHS was introduced in 1948, the pop. of the UK was circa 48, as opposed to the circa 66 million of today.

The UK is not overpopulated, there is an argument that the population could be better spread out i suppose, given that so little of the land mass is built on

japan, to take one example, has double the population on 150% of the area of the UK and has much more challenging terrain for habitation meaning that most of the people are situated in dense urban areas - i wouldn’t call japan ‘overpopulated’ either

 

[NoXion]

Of course I'm not suggesting anything like that. It obviously People do all sorts of shit to themselves but I'm talking about in GP environment and has to be suitably prescribed. If people have life-threatening or painful or degenerative illnesses you obviously wouldn't use it.

There is no such thing as "suitably prescribing" quackery. That's for medicine. The fact that most people don't use that kind of bullshit for anything serious should be a massive clue as to the real nature of it.

Quite. The mind believes the body is being treated and in some way that in itself can bring remission.

But using placebos has more of an effect than no treatment at all.

Only for the kinds of complaints that tend to go away on their own in the first place. Headaches and such, not things like leukemia or broken bones. Even then, the "effectiveness" is less than 50%. That's rubbish.

If placebos didn't "work" then drugs wouldn't be tested against them. In a certain percentage of people placebos are effective.

There's no reason to believe that the recovery has anything to do with the placebo itself, as opposed to coincidence. Ruling that out is the entire point of using placebos is as part of a control group; subjects get all the pomp and ceremony except for the treatment being tested.

We don't know that it's purely regression to the mean. For example, even the colour of drugs can have an effect (first sentence of quote below), which would suggest there's something deeper going on:

Effect of colour of drugs: systematic review of perceived effect of drugs and of their effectiveness.

OBJECTIVE: To assess the impact of the colour of a drug's formulation on its perceived effect and its effectiveness and to examine whether antidepressant drugs available in the Netherlands are different in colour from hypnotic, sedative, and anxiolytic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How is that relevant? The studies referenced weren't investigating placebos.

 

[cupid_stunt]

FFS, can we keep this important thread on fucking topic?

 

[two sheds]

It's difficult when the responses are packed with insults but yeh fair enough I'll let it go.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep, it's one of those things with a dual (or multiple) meaning. At one level, clapping and donating, the odd free coffee is great. It's a way of saying thanks to people who are stressed and risking their own health. But even at that level I'd be happier if care workers and supermarket workers were included in the same warm fuzzy feeling. At the other level, it's an ideological fog, a pretence that the government and the odd billionaire who has chipped a few quid in are on board with the idea of publicly funded health and wellbeing, when they've done nothing but destroy that idea.

I've no idea how long the fuzzy feeling will last and how much it will restrict the ability of johnson et al to further fragment public services and allow US firms into the drugs market. Whatever happens next will largely depend on what is left of the economy. However, leopards don't change their ideological spots. Fuck 'em.

Yep. Whenever I hear how much a billionaire has donated to this, that or the other, my first response is invariably 'is that all?'

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah, I got a whiff of "" off this one...

Fucking stench. 2 metres isn't far away enough.

 

[Diatribe]

The UK is not overpopulated,

It is with regards to the NHS whose resources haven't kept pace with the dramatic increase in the population. The great British public consider the NHS to be sacrosanct, therefore it cannot be consigned to the annals of history overnight, nevertheless, as has been the case with civil liberties, it is being disassembled./run down piecemeal.

One only has to look at the significant rise in the private healthcare sector to perceive where successive govs. over the past 30 odd yrs. are heading. Prior to this, it would have been unthinkable for an ordinary person to consider taking out private healthcare insurance, now its a common place occurrence. The likes of Harley St. physicians would have been the preserve of the rich and famous, most notably the monarchy and their entourage, paid for of course by the peasants, now its anyone above the rank of dish washer who can afford the insurance premiums. People are being given incentives and covertly coerced into patronising the private healthcare sector.

The NHS used to be up there with the best healthcare systems on the planet, now its way, way down the list, despite the dedication of its staff, some of whom are also employed in the private sector.

 

[B.I.G]

It is with regards to the NHS whose resources haven't kept pace with the dramatic increase of the population. The great British public consider the NHS to be sacrosanct, therefore it cannot be consigned to the annals of history overnight, nevertheless, as has been the case with civil liberties, it is being disassembled./run down piecemeal.

One only has to look at the significant rise in the private healthcare sector to perceive where successive govs. over the past 30 odd yrs. are heading. Prior to this, it would have been unthinkable for an ordinary person to consider taking out private healthcare insurance, now its a common place occurrence. The likes of Harley St. physicians would have been the preserve of the rich and famous, most notably the monarchy and their entourage, paid for of course by the peasants, now its anyone above the rank of dish washer who can afford the insurance premiums. People are being given incentives and covertly coerced into patronising the private healthcare sector.

The NHS used to be up there with the best healthcare system on the planet, now its way, way down the list, despite the dedication of its staff, some of whom are also employed in the private sector.

Idiot. Underfunding something doesnt make a country overpopulated.

 

[NoXion]

It is with regards to the NHS whose resources haven't kept pace with the dramatic increase of the population. The great British public consider the NHS to be sacrosanct, therefore it cannot be consigned to the annals of history overnight, nevertheless, as has been the case with civil liberties, it is being disassembled./run down piecemeal.

One only has to look at the significant rise in the private healthcare sector to perceive where successive govs. over the past 30 odd yrs. are heading. Prior to this, it would have been unthinkable for an ordinary person to consider taking out private healthcare insurance, now its a common place occurrence. The likes of Harley St. physicians would have been the preserve of the rich and famous, most notably the monarchy and their entourage, paid for of course by the peasants, now its anyone above the rank of dish washer who can afford the insurance premiums. People are being given incentives and covertly coerced into patronising the private healthcare sector.

The NHS used to be up there with the best healthcare system on the planet, now its way, way down the list, despite the dedication of its staff, some of whom are also employed in the private sector.

That's because the NHS is being starved of resources by Tory and Blairite cunts. If more people are choosing to go private as a result, then that's all part of the plan as far they're concerned.

 

[LDC]

At least 3 more weeks of lockdown at this level just been announced. No surprise, but there we go.

 

[Teaboy]

Population density has nothing to do with it. Hong Kong have managed deal with this outbreak better than the UK, and they have a greater density of people stuffed into a smaller space.

I think population density does come into play but only if you've fucked your response. London and New York being great examples. I can't see anywhere (hopefully) in the UK being hit as hard as London even on a per capita basis.

 

[Teaboy]

At least 3 more weeks of lockdown at this level just been announced. No surprise, but there we go.

At the very minimum. Still strapping myself in for end of May.

 

[bimble]

At least 3 more weeks of lockdown at this level just been announced. No surprise, but there we go.

I’m relieved to see this. Really didn’t trust them not to just wing it and see what happens or try to save money by sending a bunch of people back to work next week.

 

[treelover]

At least 3 more weeks of lockdown at this level just been announced. No surprise, but there we go.

I think mental health issues will come to the fore now, my friends son,a M/H practioner says it has been unusually quiet, but I reckon now things change.

 

[treelover]

At the very minimum. Still strapping myself in for end of May.

So hardly any summer, then its back to grey days, massive depression, this will impact on MH.

 

[andysays]

At the very minimum. Still strapping myself in for end of May.

Nah mate, it'll be over before May 8th because...








... VE Day

 

[LDC]

So hardly any summer, then its back to grey days, massive depression, this will impact on MH.

No other option though.

 

[two sheds]

So hardly any summer, then its back to grey days, massive depression, this will impact on MH.

Lovely spring so far though

 

[flypanam]

Nah mate, it'll be over before May 8th because...








... VE Day

VE and VC19 day

 

[Petcha]

So three weeks time is a bank holiday i think?

there's no fucking way they'll let us loose on a bank holiday.