yeah, it's a problem I've been aware of for years, but it was particularly painfully underlined last year when the gastro-intestinal issues mrs b had been trying to get her Dr to take seriously for a couple of years turned out to be cancer.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Our hospital sold a bit of their land to one of the parasite companies ( Serco ?) the nurses had to use it . In was in hospital for 4 months last year and it was definitely run by Security Guards. Obviously they knew the staffs shift patterns and where a lot of nurses worked extra hours they would wait for them to be late coming back to the cars. And would fine . They had a limit of health workers they would fine each day to make it less obvious. Plus take turns to share the fine bonus around.
I should have qualified it with a statement about certain conditions only and when more traditional forms of treatment are failing. But anyway I've seen numerous times people close to me put onto the merry go round of very often strong chemicals. The full and only arsenal a GP has at their disposal. Chemicals which in many cases cause quite serious side affects let alone the long term complications. I've seen the damage this does to a person and exasperation of the GP as they just suggest another strong chemical that's come onto the market.
I've also seen how effective alternative treatments have had with people. How homeopathy genuinely changed people's lives when the chemicals had failed. How effective acupuncture has been. In fact I've seen it happen an awful lot.
So, as someone, who errs always towards a more scientific approach I cannot square the circle of the efficacy of alternative medicine against its continual failure to pass any passing level of scientific rigor. So my conclusion is that the placebo affect is very powerful yet its the one tool GP's are not allowed to use accept in this alternative sphere, which they then get attacked for. So to my mind with a small handful of conditions if the traditional approach is failing where is the harm in trying alternative? And to that aim the placebo pill is as good as anything and even if it doesn't work it won't be adding to the long lasting and crippling damage the current approach is doing to some people. How that placebo is delivered I'm less fussed about but pill format is simplest and works in homeopathy (though in reality its about the care of the consultation rather than the pill). To my mind the other option is to just accept these alternative treatments work and stick them on the NHS.
I do take killer b point about how these things can and would be miused but it's weighing up pro's and cons. I'll leave this here as its a major distraction but as you might of guessed this is very personal to me and I'd rather no more people close to me end up gibbering and shaking wrecks because of prescribed medicine which didn't do what it's supposed to do.
teqniq
DisMembered
Oh dearie me:
www.vice.com
Watch Police Accuse a Man of 'Killing People' for Filming Them
It's the police lockdown power-trip of the week!
www.vice.com
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
SIX MILLION QUID!
Proper hero.
Hero Tom Moore's fundraiser passes £9,000,000 for the NHS
Captain Tom Moore, 99, has raised an incredible £8,000,000 for the NHS, smashing his original target to raise £1,000.metro.co.uk
He got a guard of honour today and he has now raised 13 million.
Amazing.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, for some of that I was making the same 'hmmmm.' Mostly opening for delivery though and plenty of places already doing that.
Last edited:
Not having perused a newspaper since the demise of Auberon Waugh in 2001, or viewed a television set since the 2005 Oval Test Match, I can't help but wonder if the overwhelming urge for the now, not so huddled, masses to stock up on toilet paper was a direct result of their watching too much Sky news which culminated in giving them the shits.
There are a litany of conflicting views and differing death rate statistics relating to the current Coronavirus outbreak, with the only matter so called experts agreeing upon is that the casualties of the effects will far exceed those of the cause. During this recent mass hysteria generated by the media, has there been any mention of the circa 30,000 annual winter deaths incurred by elderly UK citizens as a direct result of hyper inflated heating costs, the aforementioned not being inclusive of those having died of normal common colds.
As I understand the current rules of engagement mandated by the gov. people should distance themselves from others by 2 meters. However, I have noticed that people are exaggeratedly crossing the street when approaching each other, or walking in the middle of the road to avoid potential contact. Is this an additional media recommendation, or is it merely a further self preservation precaution being practised as a result of fear being instilled by the aforementioned.
I actually find this latter practice to be a tad ironic, particularly in the vein that people are normally so fixated talking puerile detritus on their phones , they don't see a foot in front of them, thereby causing one to take evasive action to avoid bumping into them. Perhaps the old adage ''Every cloud has a silver lining'' has some merit after all.
There are a litany of conflicting views and differing death rate statistics relating to the current Coronavirus outbreak, with the only matter so called experts agreeing upon is that the casualties of the effects will far exceed those of the cause. During this recent mass hysteria generated by the media, has there been any mention of the circa 30,000 annual winter deaths incurred by elderly UK citizens as a direct result of hyper inflated heating costs, the aforementioned not being inclusive of those having died of normal common colds.
As I understand the current rules of engagement mandated by the gov. people should distance themselves from others by 2 meters. However, I have noticed that people are exaggeratedly crossing the street when approaching each other, or walking in the middle of the road to avoid potential contact. Is this an additional media recommendation, or is it merely a further self preservation precaution being practised as a result of fear being instilled by the aforementioned.
I actually find this latter practice to be a tad ironic, particularly in the vein that people are normally so fixated talking puerile detritus on their phones , they don't see a foot in front of them, thereby causing one to take evasive action to avoid bumping into them. Perhaps the old adage ''Every cloud has a silver lining'' has some merit after all.
Last edited:
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
The Covid deaths are happening on top of those things you mention. There's no conflicting views regarding the immense pressure that it is putting on the NHS.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
2 metres minimum innit mate.
I agree that strong chemicals shouldn't be a first resort for lots of conditions - I too know people who've ended up on a similar merry-go-round, mostly via anti-depressants. But it's a resource problem as much as anything else - when doctors inappropriately prescribe ADs, they do so not because they love doling out pills, but because that's the only immediately available - and affordable - course of action they have. They could refer you on for a 6 week course of CBT (starting in 6 months), or they could give you a course of SSRIs. Possibly ruinous in the long run, but you can see how it happens - people end up at the dr when they are in crisis, not when they have 6 months to wait.
The placebo effect is poorly understood, and as you recognise may have as much to do with the care given during the consultation as anything else - does giving overworked and under-resourced GPs another way of saying here's some pills - next patient please really make you think this would be effectively harnessing the power of placebo? It's just another sticking plaster - what's needed isn't sugar pills, it's more GPs, better and more accessible psych services, etc etc.
editor
hiraethified
I think we're going to lose a lot of pubs and venues when this is over Campaigners urges pub companies to cancel rent during the coronavirus crisis
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeh tbh if it reduces pressure on supermarkets it might not be bad
0ne of my carers also works in local pub, both her and her work colleagues think they will just go back there when it opens, i'm not so sure.
crass that even for them, five weeks in the house is not the same as six years of war
though ofd course there have been many casualties, RIP.
[QUOTE="NoXion, post: 16499861, member: 25664" There's no conflicting views regarding the immense pressure that it is putting on the NHS.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think that is because this island, the size of a postage stamp is grossly overpopulated. After all, when the NHS was introduced in 1948, the pop. of the UK was circa 48, as opposed to the circa 66 million of today.
Canada and Australia have populations of circa 38 and 25 million respectively, both countries containing a land mass where the UK could be deposited and never found. I am of course exaggerating to prove a point, no doubt some intrepid explorer a la Captain James Cook would one day happen across it.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think that is because this island, the size of a postage stamp is grossly overpopulated. After all, when the NHS was introduced in 1948, the pop. of the UK was circa 48, as opposed to the circa 66 million of today.
Canada and Australia have populations of circa 38 and 25 million respectively, both countries containing a land mass where the UK could be deposited and never found. I am of course exaggerating to prove a point, no doubt some intrepid explorer a la Captain James Cook would one day happen across it.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
It was over the faked photos of british forces abusing detainees not long after the abu grhaib prisoner abuse pics came out.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Are you saying the placebo effect doesn't work?
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Population density has nothing to do with it. Hong Kong have managed deal with this outbreak better than the UK, and they have a greater density of people stuffed into a smaller space.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It 'works' as you say (although quite how you can use that word I'm not sure) in a very, very limited way, and not in a way that means people should be prescribing placebos for people that are actually ill.
Anyway, this and similar such nonsense is a derail on the thread, let's not go into it here.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
If it really worked, then we'd have crystal therapists instead of oncologists working the cancer wards.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No agenda here. Nosirree. Totally innocent question.
That list in this article about OK landlords (almost all actual breweries) and bad landlords (many of them evil pubcos like Punch Taverns) is very telling
No agenda whatsosever, littlebabyjesus, I was merely making an observation whilst asking a salient question.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Who's saying it works for cancer? Pure strawman.
And you know it's been tested more times than all the drugs on the market combined. If it didn't work they wouldn't test drugs against it.
But ok is a derail.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The poor lambs are only on 80k
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I take it you've never heard any of those stories of people dying after deciding that quackery is better than medicine.
Jessica Ainscough - Wikipedia
People who use such nonsense die more than those who don't:
Cancer patients who choose alternative medicine die sooner, study finds
Complementary therapies may sound good, but they don't cure cancer.
www.nbcnews.com
Placebo isn't a treatment. It's literally meant to be all the trappings and appearance of treatment, without actually having any clinical effects. Sugar pills. Water.
Placebo "works" because there is such a thing as regression to the mean. Cancers do go into remission. People recover on their own. But if you want effective medicine, then whatever you're testing must do better than that.
Last edited:
Similar threads
