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Why has nobody asked about rates under current restrictions, whether we need to go back to tighter restrictions, and if we stay at this level what does the modellng show re: hospitalizations and deaths?

It sort of came up a few times, Vallance was asked about the modelling twice and did his best not to answer with any detail the questioner wanted. I think the closest he got to an answer involved how much of a push down on the peak this delay might enable.

The main theme of this downbeat press onference where Johnson was pretty subdued and disheveled was mostly a comtinuation of the themes introduced in February or whenever it was that they announced the unlocking plan. Where the main theme is to show the limits of their ambition, and how learning to live with the disease forever will mean plenty of hospitalisation and death. A world where vaccines are asked to carry almost all the weight. A demonstration of how much of the old, classic, establishment orthodox approach in this country would rebound as soon as options from the vaccination playbook were available.

They also set the scene for how awkward the July relaxation date will be, since they expect it to come at a moment where we have rather high numbers of cases, hospitalisations etc and were quite prepared to say that today.

Even if Johnson had been in a boosterish mood today, which he clearly was not, any happy sounding future featuring the old normal that he tries to conjure up is permanently in the shadow of him feeling the need to mention that a dangerous new variant could always come along and eat their homework.

Apparently part of returning us to the old normal involves not bothering to underline any of the public health messages that used to get repeated all the time in press conferences. This side of things is also mostly about vaccines only as far as they are concerned, dont bother to explain the current rules or what people should do other than get the jab.

I suppose in many ways I see this stage as a test. A test of how much people will accept this approach. A test of how much vaccines can actually do on their own. A test of their ability to hold their nerve with this attempt to get away with a return to the old attitudes. Even if one of more of these things fail again this time, they will surely try again with the same shit next time.

I dont know how many times this country will be prepared to go round that loop before either finally reaching the establishments choice of destination, or giving up and trying something else. I dont know as we'll ever find out where the limit of peoples political patience is to be found, especially given the unknowns about the size of hospitalisation and death wave we face this time, let alone what happens far beyond that point, whether the cycle repeats yet again at a scale that cant be coped with in the absence of restrictions. In theory there will only be a finite number of times that they can try this approach before people decide that something else, even something currently considered unrealistic, offers an alternative way out and is worth a try.

But they may eventually get their way some cycles before we reach that point, hard to say due to unknowns regarding how much room variants have to keep spoiling the immunity etc picture. eg if mutants keep pissing on their parade, eventually even stuff like zero Covid (or at least low covid, controlled covid, properly controlled borders) might start to sound like the common sense approach to a far wider range of people. Or maybe the virus evolution realities will be more forgiving and this new wave will be the last one for ages that is big enough to exceed the levels government think can be coped with.
 
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I left before all the questions had been done, I just thought that was the obvious first one with the current rate increase and no tightening planned.
 
They also set the scene for how awkward the July relaxation date will be, since they expect it to come at a moment where we have rather high numbers of cases, hospitalisations etc and were quite prepared to say that today.

Yeah I thought was an interesting moment. The July date is going to be very difficult, rates are clearly going to be high, unknown about deaths but could easily be hundreds daily (or on the way to that) I'd have thought. Is it really going to be possible to plough forward with more loosening with that going on? On the other hand I do think people are going to be very unhappy to go backwards, and I'm not sure they'll try. But I know people do buckle and change when things get bad, and compliance is generally good, so maybe...
 
I left before all the questions had been done, I just thought that was the obvious first one with the current rate increase and no tightening planned.

At this particular moment I wasnt that surprised or bothered that this didnt become the main angle of the press questioning. Because its clear that at this stage Johnson is mostly at the same point Sturgeon was a while back, prepared to pause but still to dismiss talk of going backwards for now. The 'not going backwards' thing will be a line they stick to for a while to come, and the results of trying to probe them on this will be very dull as a result. There will be ongoing nervousness from experts, the press and inside government as data about the trajectory ahead accumulates. We will probably notice if a time comes when they have to start abandoning that line, just as Johnsons line up until recently about 'not having seen anything in the data to suggest the need to delay' eventually gave way to something much less assured.
 
Yeah I thought was an interesting moment. The July date is going to be very difficult, rates are clearly going to be high, unknown about deaths but could easily be hundreds daily (or on the way to that) I'd have thought. Is it really going to be possible to plough forward with more loosening with that going on? On the other hand I do think people are going to be very unhappy to go backwards, and I'm not sure they'll try. But I know people do buckle and change when things get bad, and compliance is generally good, so maybe...

Another thing that will be part of that mix, that we already know via what they were prepared to acknowledge as part of todays performance, is that they will point out the looming school holidays and the effect those can have. They will probably also consider themselves lucky if we can get all the way through to that stage in July without having to reimpose some sorts of restrictions before we even get to that date.
 
It appears the public are behind the delay in the last stage of unlocking.

A YouGov snap poll today shows that 71% of English people support this delay, with 41% saying they "strongly” support it.

Only a quarter (24%) of those living in England oppose the delay, with 14% saying they "strongly” oppose the decision.

There is widespread support across all social groups, but there is a big divide by age – the older you are, the more likely you are to support the delay. Eight in ten (81%) of those aged 65 or older say they are supportive, as do 77% of those aged 50-64, falling to 66% of those aged 25-49, and down to 54% of those aged 18-24.
 
Yeah I thought was an interesting moment. The July date is going to be very difficult, rates are clearly going to be high, unknown about deaths but could easily be hundreds daily (or on the way to that) I'd have thought. Is it really going to be possible to plough forward with more loosening with that going on? On the other hand I do think people are going to be very unhappy to go backwards, and I'm not sure they'll try. But I know people do buckle and change when things get bad, and compliance is generally good, so maybe...
People suddenly get a lot more pro-lockdown every time the gov bring out a new round of business grants, which makes sense because most the vocal and agressive anti-lockdown types round here at least are entitled small business owning types or adjacent. Don't think there's been any of the business grants for a good few months now and the government changed the phrasing of the last ones to "re-start grant" or some other bullshit.
 
It appears the public are behind the delay in the last stage of unlocking.



Before the press conference even the rancid GB News acknowledged they were getting a lot of feedback in favour of delay. And then immediately proceeded to find a bunch of comments that were not happy about it to read instead. I doubt I will be spending much time checking their stance on the pandemic in future.
 
I wish there would be more of a crackdown on masks. I had a horrible journey yesterday with multiple individuals and groups of people without masks. And no, I don't accept that they are all medically exempt. There was an effort in New Street station with staff handing masks out, but I'd say around 50% of people there didn't bother at all.

The really piss poor approach to mask wearing will be my enduring memory of this pandemic. I've worked all the way through this in a small convenience store. While lots of people have been good with wearing masks, so many people haven't.

Unfortunately, it's more or less destroyed my attitude to the public. I used to be pretty tolerant and compassionate now I have days where I really despise people and it's all because of this. I've really seen just how many people, particularly blokes, are just complete and utter arrogant cunts who really do not give a fuck about anyone else apart from themselves. Nearly every single non masker has been some brain dead, knuckle dragging fuckwit scratching his bollocks. I've had plenty of rows and cross words throughout. So many arseholes tell me they're exempt because of their asthma or whatever whilst buying tobacco. It's been bloody awful. I used to enjoy my job but I hate it now and can't wait to piss off travelling for several months whenever I'm able to.

What really boils my piss about it is the complete lack of concern or respect for people working in places like mine. My mum works in ASDA and her mental health has really suffered from people abusing her and not wearing masks. A woman in her 60s being called a cunt for not allowing people to buy more than the limit on certain items.

All of this as a result of the utter shower governing us with this 'use ya common sense' approach... To a fucking pathogen, common sense. Repeated plagues on all their houses. I'd happily have gone all authoritarian on this shit like many EU countries did. No form explaining why you're outside in lockdown? £200 fine. No mask without a good enough reason? £200 fine.

Just to add it has been bloody terrifying working throughout. I say it affected my mum's mental health but it's affected mine too, I haven't been quite right for months truth be told. I'm just so, so, so relieved to have been double vaccinated now. I feel it protects me more from the arrogant than it does from the virus.
 
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I posted on another thread but at least 30% at Sainsbury’s tonight weren’t wearing mask, I spotted only one exemption lanyard. The chap on the door reckoned everyone else had exemption cards but I found it hard to believe - particularly when groups of 3 or 4 maskless people are shopping together.

I only go to Sainsbury’s for things I can’t get in Aldi like ginger beer and rice pudding pots. Thankfully Aldi seems much better and I can be in and out in 15 minutes due to a smaller footprint.
 
dunno

2 weeks notice (to postpone again) would be better than 1 week's notice, if that's what they are thinking

that's probably me being charitable though...
It sounded like in two weeks, they were thinking things might be better so they'd pull the July date back but maybe I misunderstood. :confused:
 
Anyone else due their second jab, try logging on to the NHS page. Previously I couldn't get any dates till August and didn't book, as may be working away. Logged on tonight and managed to get an appointment for the middle of July, exactly 8 weeks after my first jab.
I can’t get anything sooner for Devon but can get it 2 weeks earlier in Berkshire and I’m up there that weekend anyway.

But I’ve got the dentist and then seeing friends for drinks. This may not be the best time to have a bad reaction?
 
Looking at tomorrow’s front pages, I wonder not for the first time… Is there any other country in the world so obsessed with the eventual end date of restrictions as the most important issue to worry about the pandemic? And furthermore, to describe such development as ‘freedom’?

I get individual members of the public spouting such shit on social media, but this is most of the mainstream press ffs.

Fuck people dying or being seriously ill. Fuck the very basic concept of making temporary small sacrifices for the greater good. Apparently we’ve been prisoners of some sort, our basic freedoms stamped on in the most appalling way. Never mind that this country has enjoyed one of the most permissive set of restrictions anywhere.

Fuck off already with pretending your freedom is being infringed you selfish cunts :mad:
 
40 kids and staff sent home from my school yesterday because they're close contacts with someone who got a positive lateral flow test.

We were within a gnat's bollock of complete elimination around here (Devon) before the most recent rule changes and the half term break when the world and his mum got in their cars and drove down here :(
 
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Looking at tomorrow’s front pages, I wonder not for the first time… Is there any other country in the world so obsessed with the eventual end date of restrictions as the most important issue to worry about the pandemic? And furthermore, to describe such development as ‘freedom’?

I get individual members of the public spouting such shit on social media, but this is most of the mainstream press ffs.

Fuck people dying or being seriously ill. Fuck the very basic concept of making temporary small sacrifices for the greater good. Apparently we’ve been prisoners of some sort, our basic freedoms stamped on in the most appalling way. Never mind that this country has enjoyed one of the most permissive set of restrictions anywhere.

Fuck off already with pretending your freedom is being infringed you selfish cunts :mad:

Are we obsessed or is it just the papers? General mood among people I talk to is it's better to have 'freedom' kicked down the road a bit than risk losing it again altogether, and pissing away everything we've already done to control spread, get people vaccinated etc.
 
Are we obsessed or is it just the papers? General mood among people I talk to is it's better to have 'freedom' kicked down the road a bit than risk losing it again altogether, and pissing away everything we've already done to control spread, get people vaccinated etc.
This absolutely. This 'Freedom Day' narrative/bullshit is seriously doing my head in.
 
Are we obsessed or is it just the papers? General mood among people I talk to is it's better to have 'freedom' kicked down the road a bit than risk losing it again altogether, and pissing away everything we've already done to control spread, get people vaccinated etc.
It's the papers - see cupid_stunt's post - a large majority of people support the delay. And in general throughout the whole situation people have been far more supportive of lockdowns and other restrictions than the papers, loudmouths and politicians.
 
The really piss poor approach to mask wearing will be my enduring memory of this pandemic. I've worked all the way through this in a small convenience store. While lots of people have been good with wearing masks, so many people haven't.

Unfortunately, it's more or less destroyed my attitude to the public. I used to be pretty tolerant and compassionate now I have days where I really despise people and it's all because of this. I've really seen just how many people, particularly blokes, are just complete and utter arrogant cunts who really do not give a fuck about anyone else apart from themselves. Nearly every single non masker has been some brain dead, knuckle dragging fuckwit scratching his bollocks. I've had plenty of rows and cross words throughout. So many arseholes tell me they're exempt because of their asthma or whatever whilst buying tobacco. It's been bloody awful. I used to enjoy my job but I hate it now and can't wait to piss off travelling for several months whenever I'm able to.

What really boils my piss about it is the complete lack of concern or respect for people working in places like mine. My mum works in ASDA and her mental health has really suffered from people abusing her and not wearing masks. A woman in her 60s being called a cunt for not allowing people to buy more than the limit on certain items.

All of this as a result of the utter shower governing us with this 'use ya common sense' approach... To a fucking pathogen, common sense. Repeated plagues on all their houses. I'd happily have gone all authoritarian on this shit like many EU countries did. No form explaining why you're outside in lockdown? £200 fine. No mask without a good enough reason? £200 fine.

Just to add it has been bloody terrifying working throughout. I say it affected my mum's mental health but it's affected mine too, I haven't been quite right for months truth be told. I'm just so, so, so relieved to have been double vaccinated now. I feel it protects me more from the arrogant than it does from the virus.
I'm so sorry to hear how you and your mum have both been so badly affected by those selfish people.
Thank you for posting this.
I do hope you get to go travelling soon.
Virtual hugs to you and your mum.
 
My prediction for this morning is they won't roll back restrictions between now and July, and they will loosen things on the July date (with possibly some token things staying), and then that'll be it - with their excuse that the vaccine offers good protection and that everyone's been offered a dose and we need to 'live with the virus'.
 
Quite likely, the school/university holidays will be on by then and that always seems to lessen transmission

Yeah, that's one of the things they're hoping will bring things down a bit I expect. That and good weather and so people being outside more.

Would 'love' to sit in on one of those meeting where they're like, 'How about 200 people dead a day? Think that's something we can work with and get the public to be OK with?'
 
Anyone else due their second jab, try logging on to the NHS page. Previously I couldn't get any dates till August and didn't book, as may be working away. Logged on tonight and managed to get an appointment for the middle of July, exactly 8 weeks after my first jab.
Thanks for this - just got mine brought forward to mid-June.

Am 37 years old with Pfizer if that makes any difference.
 
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