Calais: Migration and the UK Border

[SpookyFrank]

Yeah? I wonder what the odds of two different posters both using the term mudball in a rant about border controls is? What would you give me if i doubled that up with them both having grown up in and around slade gardens?

Ha, well spotted. And good riddance to bad rubbish.

Tomorrow I'll try and post another update on the situation in Calais, bedtime now though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You were already banned at least once layabout. So yeah, OU is right, fuck off again.

At least twice. First as layabout, the supposed naif who joined the BNP but didn't know they were racist, and then as Tonka toy.

 

[phildwyer]

At least twice. First as layabout, the supposed naif who joined the BNP but didn't know they were racist, and then as Tonka toy.

The real story here is how did Butchers remember someone using the word "mudball" ten years ago?

I'd have thought that was impossible unless I'd seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Pickman's model]

People aren't either criminals or non-criminals. Many people who commit crimes in a desperate situation will stop committing them in a situation that offers the possibility of legal advancement.

yeh but that's saying that the only actor in that is the 'criminal' whereas criminality can happen to anyone, just like treading in dogshit

 

[phildwyer]

yeh but that's saying that the only actor in that is the 'criminal' whereas criminality can happen to anyone, just like treading in dogshit

That was my point.

 

[Orang Utan]

The real story here is how did Butchers remember someone using the word "mudball" ten years ago?

I'd have thought that was impossible unless I'd seen it with my own eyes.

He didn't have to. I'm guessing he spotted an odd word and then did a search. Bingo.

 

[Pickman's model]

That was my point.

what a pity that's not what you said.

 

[The Boy]

He didn't have to. I'm guessing he spotted an odd word and then did a search. Bingo.

'zactly

 

[SpookyFrank]

The French and British governments seem to have come up with a carrot-and-stick type plan to get the migrants out of the town without actually letting them cross the border. A new day centre providing washing facillities etc will be opened at a site a few miles from Calais itself in the near future, although construction doesn't seem to be moving very quickly. It's expected that after the jungles are cleared the migrants will be forced to set up new jungles in the area around this new day centre, an area with no access to the town and which the police will be able to control access to.

Update on this: we now know that this is definitely the plan for the migrants in Calais, clear the existing jungles and encourage (force) people to set up new camps in the area around this new day centre. Because completion of the day centre is late, physical eviction of the jungles will not now take place until late March/early April. Despite this, people are already being encouraged by the police to move from the jungles where they're currently staying (all of which have access to bottleneck points on the road network leading to the port or the tunnel) and camp out by the still unfinished day centre instead.

Government approved charities working with migrants are being leant on to help force the change. Distribution of hot food in the town itself has now been outlawed; where before there was still one charity left distributing one meal a day to a couple of hundred people. Most of the suitable sites for food distribution had already been closed off by the local authorities, so meals were being served from trestle tables under a bridge. Even this is no longer permitted.

Police presence around the jungles has increased, ostensibly to allow them to plan for the evictions but most likely just to intimidate people into leaving. The evictions themselves are likely to be brutal. When jungles are evicted in Calais everything left behind is destroyed; tents and bedding and clothes are bulldozed, sometimes doused in pepper spray and then taken to the dump where they are mixed with rotting rubbish to make sure they are completely unusable.

The 'unofficial' activists working in Calais are unlikely to have enough bodies or enough energy to help physically resist the eviction, but if there is a strong presence of european activists with cameras observing the proceedings then that may help to reduce the levels of violence directed at the migrants. To do this we will need more cameras, video cameras especially, and more volunteers. The police have been seizing cameras from activists recently and destroying them; we're hoping that simply having more people and more cameras at any one time will make this tactic unworkable for them. French police are scared of cameras. I've seen this for myself, pointing a camera at them really does make them change their behaviour.

So if anyone has an old video camera they don't need, and they could donate it to the activists in Calais, it might help prevent a lot of bad things happening to people.

 

[BigTom]

The real story here is how did Butchers remember someone using the word "mudball" ten years ago?

I'd have thought that was impossible unless I'd seen it with my own eyes.

Search is most likely, but it's also possible he's one of those rare people with perfect memory (or a perfect recall of an aspect of memory - visual, auditory etc).

 

[Greebo]

Search is most likely, but it's also possible he's one of those rare people with perfect memory (or a perfect recall of an aspect of memory - visual, auditory etc).

It wouldn't take perfect memory - just a memory for quirks.

 

[SpookyFrank]

As for why moving everyone out of the town would be very bad, for one thing there is often pretty serious beef between the different communities of migrants. This happens because of historical, political and cultural baggage but also because of the particular stresses and strains of people's living conditions in Calais. Space is limited, resources are limited and tensions are generally high. Small conflicts can escalate easily. The new policy will effectively force everyone to share the same space, a much more limited space than the various settlements are currently occupying. This will almost certainly lead to fighting, and fights in Calais can be epic.

Secondly, access to the new omni-jungle will be controlled by the authorities. Most likely people will not be allowed access to the town itself at all, and so they won't be able to buy food, supplies or the uniquitous and vital lyca sim cards. This too will increase conficts over whatever resources people do have access to, which could well play into the hands of the existing gangs and give them even greater power. Conversely, people not approved by the state won't be able to get in to contact the migrants or provide support. Supplies which are donated for the migrants might not ever reach people. Many migrants are reliant on donations of clothes, tents and bedding. Under the new regime even those with cash to pay for these items may not be able to buy them.

It's possible I'm being overly pessimistic here, it's possible the presence of a day centre will actually be an improvement. There are voices in France calling for better treatment of migrants, and this may be a genuine response to that. What could be happening though, what people on the ground are starting to suspect, is that autonomous shanty towns are being replaced by a concentration camp.

 

[Greebo]

<snip>The 'unofficial' activists working in Calais are unlikely to have enough bodies or enough energy to help physically resist the eviction, but if there is a strong presence of european activists with cameras observing the proceedings then that may help to reduce the levels of violence directed at the migrants. To do this we will need more cameras, video cameras especially, and more volunteers. The police have been seizing cameras from activists recently and destroying them; we're hoping that simply having more people and more cameras at any one time will make this tactic unworkable for them. French police are scared of cameras. I've seen this for myself, pointing a camera at them really does make them change their behaviour.

So if anyone has an old video camera they don't need, and they could donate it to the activists in Calais, it might help prevent a lot of bad things happening to people.

Good point - even a digital camera and some large capacity memory cards might be useful.

 

[phildwyer]

Search is most likely, but it's also possible he's one of those rare people with perfect memory (or a perfect recall of an aspect of memory - visual, auditory etc).

I suspect it's the latter.

I knew another guy like that once. He could look at a printed page for ten seconds, then recite it word-perfect. Absolutely unbelievable. I'd be ruling the world if I could do that.

 

[likesfish]

A solution would be an agreed EU refugee agreement so italy and greece dont get swamped and the jungle gets closed

 

[SpookyFrank]

A solution would be an agreed EU refugee agreement so italy and greece dont get swamped and the jungle gets closed

...including the UK taking in our fair share. In the case of people from countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, our fair share should clearly be a lot higher than everyone else's fair share.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Here is a report, written by a friend of mine, on the planned evictions of the jungles and the new 'day care' centre.

https://watchtheborders.wordpress.c...wilderness-jules-ferry-and-calais-new-jungle/

The authorities have announced all camps and squats will be evicted after the end of the month. All migrants must move, willingly or by force, to a new jungle–ghetto near the new day centre Jules-Ferry, where they will be ‘tolerated’ – not allowed to stay! The centre is situated in a wilderness in the middle of nowhere, out of town and out of sight. No accommodation will be provided, the centre will be only open by day. All men and boys can bring their tents, else the tents will be destroyed. There are many unaccompanied minors, the youngest age 12 or less.

A hundred women and children will be allowed to sleep in the Jules-Ferry centre – in fact they have been ordered to move to Jules-Ferry centre, where they will have 4 square meters each at their disposal in a prefab. A disaster, as far as the protection of women and children is concerned: they will pretty much be given into the hands of people smugglers and prostitution rings.

The local associations like SALAM who have supported migrants for years were not even counsulted. There are no houses there and no potential witnesses: people will have no protection in case of fights or police brutality, especially at night when the employees and volunteers from associations go home. At present police do not usually go into the camps – though that could change – but they are circling the streets around the camps all the time, beating and gassing people. Migrants are also afraid police will not let them go out the new camp to try to go to England.

Sadly nothing in this article seems implausible to me given my own experiences and the stories of migrants I've met in Calais and here in the UK.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Trying to write down some of my own thoughts on the situation but I'm not getting anywhere. Long story short, I'm afraid that something very bad is about to happen to a lot of good people.

 

[bluescreen]

SpookyFrank Perhaps there's another thread on this I haven't found, but would really appreciate your insight on the latest crisis. How do you think the UK can best deal with it?

Everyone seems to think it's a UK problem rather than a French problem or a Euro problem. I don't understand why people find the UK so attractive unless it's just the ubiquity of English. We treat migrants like shit. I don't understand why the UK is preferable to France, especially given how hazardous it can be to get here.

Do you think we should process immigration this side of the Channel, as the French suggest? And do you think we should let everyone in? We probably should...

 

[frogwoman]

France treats migrants even worse. (Although theres little to choose between)

 

[Greebo]

<snip> Everyone seems to think it's a UK problem rather than a French problem or a Euro problem. I don't understand why people find the UK so attractive unless it's just the ubiquity of English. We treat migrants like shit. I don't understand why the UK is preferable to France, especially given how hazardous it can be to get here.<snip>

You think people in the UK treat immigrants like shit? You should see how they're treated in France, particularly the ones who aren't white and West European.

Furthermore, it's even more difficult to get the right to vote (if you weren't born there, or your parents weren't) in France than it is in the UK, in spite of that recently brought in ridiculous citizenship test and the high fee etc.

 

[bluescreen]

Are they treated worse than here? Perhaps they are. UK certainly doesn't have the monopoly on racism. But no way is it the paradise some people seem to imagine. It's pretty bad when people have to live in tents and give birth in the street.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Just looking at how the French are kicking up at the Saudi king having a shitty bit of beach closed off in front of his villa in the south of France. It's a fairly normal thing to do for a head of state, yet cos he's an Arab the French are making out like the monarchy has been restored.

Now imagine how they react when you're a forrin who's not worth €billions...

 

[SpookyFrank]

Are they treated worse than here?

Short answer, yes. In most of Europe migrants are treated worse than they are here. Many people trying to get to the UK have tried to live elsewhere in Europe. In the case of countries like Greece and Italy, it's overt public racism that makes life untenable for many people. In Belgium, Denmark, France etc the problem is one of state brutality and mistreatment; detention centres etc. Belgium IIRC locks up more migrants than the UK in absolute terms, an impressive achievement considering Belgium is about the size of Kent.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There is of course no simple answer to 'why do people want to come to the UK' because 'people' is a pretty broad category. You might as well ask why so many of the people who are born here choose to stay.

 

[sovereignb]

SpookyFrank Perhaps there's another thread on this I haven't found, but would really appreciate your insight on the latest crisis. How do you think the UK can best deal with it?

Everyone seems to think it's a UK problem rather than a French problem or a Euro problem. I don't understand why people find the UK so attractive unless it's just the ubiquity of English. We treat migrants like shit. I don't understand why the UK is preferable to France, especially given how hazardous it can be to get here.

Do you think we should process immigration this side of the Channel, as the French suggest? And do you think we should let everyone in? We probably should...

The UK doesn't treat immigrants like shit compared to many other countries. The myth of golden streets and unlimited job opportunities continues to perpetuated.

Why do you think everyone should be let in?

 

[bluescreen]

I think there's an argument that everyone should be let in (I said 'perhaps') because it's unconscionable that they should be left to suffer the way they are suffering in The Jungle in Calais, or that they should be risking their lives in a way that would be considered an outrage if it were happening here on this island but is apparently not, so long as it's happening over there abroad. I don't know how else that suffering can be relieved, given that France is already doing a lot more than they are given credit for. Against that is the very obvious argument of the alleged pull factor: if we make it easy (hell, it's not remotely easy, is it, to get this far?) then more will come. I don't honestly know how much weight to give to either side of the argument, even while acknowledging there are many more sides to it than just these two.

What I am certain of is that continued conflict and climate change - which induces further conflict - will only exacerbate the exodus. We aint seen nothing yet. I'm also reasonably sure that the people trying to enter the UK are young and able - the very people most needed back home. In an ideal world we'd wave a wand and create world peace and people would move only because they wanted to, not because they had to. We're not in that world, so how do we improve the one we've got (without making everything worse)?

The BBC (I know I know) has an interesting feature on the naive question I asked Frank earlier:
Would Calais migrants really be better off in the UK?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Why do you think everyone should be let in?

Everyone should be able to go wherever they want. If ten million people come over here tomorrow morning and fuck everything up by, I dunno, existing when you'd rather they didn't then you are entirely at liberty to fuck off somewhere else where those people aren't. That's why free movement for everyone is such a great system. Everyone will just keep shifting around until all the racist throwbacks have been chased off to some godforsaken bit of tundra that nobody else wants to live in and the rest of us can share the rest of the world and generally have a nice time with no cunt telling us we should be killing each other because we have different flags.

 

[bluescreen]

You reckon that's how it could be, Frank?

 

[SpookyFrank]

You reckon that's how it could be, Frank?

Worth a try I reckon. The current set up is a crock of shit.