Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[Jeff Robinson]

Another undercover exposé of the savagery and barbarity of the UK dairy industry. Can't wait for the day where this absurd, cruel and anachronistic industry is a thing of the past.

 

[Karl Masks]

Another undercover exposé of the savagery and barbarity of the UK dairy industry. Can't wait for the day where this absurd, cruel and anachronistic industry is a thing of the past.

The way cheese prices are going, that won't be long

Which is unfortuante because I like cheese.

 

[RainbowTown]

It's a pretty contentious issue, I know. But all I can say is that I gave up eating meat some time back and I feel a lot healthier now than I have for years. I've always been slim (could never put the weight on) but now - in my mid 30s - I'm at my lightest since my early 20's. I eat just as well though, lots of choice and variety out there,; and overall - besides the occasional yearning for a bacon sandwich - I don't really miss meat at all now. Even my other half, who really does like meat, is now open to having more vegetarian alternatives, which is a welcome - if not surprising - development. One I didn't anticipate at all.

 

[butcher]

Before my present career path I was a plant geneticist (working on marker assisted selection on tropical crops), at that time we shared a house with a friend who did not eat meat for religious reasons. This meant we ate meat about once a fortnight.

What I did learn was how to cook some cracking veggie dishes which I still include in my culinary reptoire.

I still find tofu and some of the other shizzle bland and difficult to disguise though, still better than 80s/90s TVP.

 

[friedaweed]

Before my present career path I was a plant geneticist (working on marker assisted selection on tropical crops), at that time we shared a house with a friend who did not eat meat for religious reasons. This meant we ate meat about once a fortnight.

What I did learn was how to cook some cracking veggie dishes which I still include in my culinary reptoire.

I still find tofu and some of the other shizzle bland and difficult to disguise though, still better than 80s/90s TVP.

Same here. I was with my kids mum for 14 years and she's been vegi since school. I only tended to have meat at weekends. Eating mainly vegi food made me think a lot more about where my meat was coming from. You tend to think about these things more when you have kids as well. We quite often have meat free dishes without a thought and if we have guests who are vegie we all have vegie.

 

[Cid]

Before my present career path I was a plant geneticist (working on marker assisted selection on tropical crops), at that time we shared a house with a friend who did not eat meat for religious reasons. This meant we ate meat about once a fortnight.

What I did learn was how to cook some cracking veggie dishes which I still include in my culinary reptoire.

I still find tofu and some of the other shizzle bland and difficult to disguise though, still better than 80s/90s TVP.

Deep fry it. Or make mapo tofu.

 

[RainbowTown]

I still find tofu and some of the other shizzle bland and difficult to disguise though, still better than 80s/90s TVP.

Have you tried tempeh as an alternative to tofu? It's a bit more expensive but very tasty and high in protein. I get some from Sainsbury about £3 for 198 grams.

 

[friedaweed]

Have you tried tempeh as an alternative to tofu? It's a bit more expensive but very tasty and high in protein. I get some from Sainsbury about £3 for 198 grams.

I got some of that in for my daughter but it was Tiny.

 

[Funky_monks]

Interesting.
So, importing dry soy cake for animal feed = terrible for the environment (which I do agree with)
and yet- Importing fresh soy for making curd (or the curd itself) absolutely fine.

Ok then.

 

[bcuster]

Deep fry it. Or make mapo tofu.

tofu can be marinated & grilled with very good results

Marinated Tofu

Never eat bland or boring tofu again! This Marinated Tofu recipe teaches you how to easily transform a regular brick of tofu into the most delicious protein with amazing flavors.

www.noracooks.com

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Interesting.
So, importing dry soy cake for animal feed = terrible for the environment (which I do agree with)
and yet- Importing fresh soy for making curd (or the curd itself) absolutely fine.

Ok then.

More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception.

https://ourworldindata.org/soy#:~:text=One%2Dfifth%20of%20the%20world's,be%20used%20for%20industrial%20purposes.

 

[Funky_monks]

More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception.

https://ourworldindata.org/soy#:~:text=One%2Dfifth%20of%20the%20world's,be%20used%20for%20industrial%20purposes.

It's the same plant.
We can't cultivate it in the UK really, its incredibly nutrient hungry, so is likely to be grown in quite damaging ways.

Yes, most oilseed soy comes from South America, hence the supply of byproduct (cake) from there for feed.

We've been through this - soy yields 12-15% oil, the rest is waste. This is what is fed to livestock.

I'm all for reducing/eliminating soy cake in livestock feed, we produced livestock before cheap soy cake, we can do it without. Just happens to be plentiful and inexpensive.

Your whole soy beans aren't magically grown in lovely, sustainable ways. Probably imported from North America as opposed to South, using much fossil fuels in the process.

 

[Funky_monks]

Impact of meat and dairy reduced by nearly half if you take into account protien quality - ie you would need to eat much more less nutritionally dense foods to obtain the same nutrition (peer reviewed journal article linked to at the bottom).
Protein quality evaluation ‘halves’ environment impact of meat and dairy

 

[editor]

More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception.

https://ourworldindata.org/soy#:~:text=One%2Dfifth%20of%20the%20world's,be%20used%20for%20industrial%20purposes.

Indeed:

This absolutely does not mean that vegetarians are the ones responsible for deforestation in the Amazon. Most of the world's soya is fed to livestock, only 6% of it is eaten directly by humans. See our meat-free guide for figures on the amount of “embedded soya” in animal products.

Eating soya is vastly better for the environment than eating animal products, across many variables. A vegan diet is responsible for about half the greenhouse gas emissions of an omnivorous one.

Is Soya Sustainable? | Ethical Consumer

Mass production of Soya has received fierce criticism for its role in the deforestation of South America. So, should we as humans stop eating it?

www.ethicalconsumer.org

 

[Karl Masks]

any good full fat vegan yoghurt around (not sat fats)? Made from nuts perhaps?

 

[Wolveryeti]

I wonder whether insect protein will get a look in or whether the lab grown stuff will just improve and scale and take over.

I went here last May:

Grub Kitchen - The Bug Farm

Conservation through Research, Innovation & Education

www.thebugfarm.co.uk

Unfortunately due to a complication of Brexit and not having onshored the novel food legislation in time, bugs were off the menu. But by the looks of things they are back:

VEXo Bolognese made with Bug Farm Foods award-winning plant and insect mince (VEXo) and served with pasta and a Perennial Nursery side salad.

Spiced cumin & mealworm hummus served with flatbread and salad.

Mixed insect pakoras made with sweet potato, spinach, curried chickpea and mixed insects pakoras with coriander, mango chutney and a coconut & mint yogurt drizzle. Served with salad.

I can't say I am completely sold, but I would give it a go. Bug farming is definitely a more efficient/sustainable way of producing protein than traditional livestock farming: Insects for food and feed

 

[Funky_monks]

I wonder whether insect protein will get a look in or whether the lab grown stuff will just improve and scale and take over.

I went here last May:

Grub Kitchen - The Bug Farm

Conservation through Research, Innovation & Education

www.thebugfarm.co.uk

Unfortunately due to a complication of Brexit and not having onshored the novel food legislation in time, bugs were off the menu. But by the looks of things they are back:

VEXo Bolognese made with Bug Farm Foods award-winning plant and insect mince (VEXo) and served with pasta and a Perennial Nursery side salad.

Spiced cumin & mealworm hummus served with flatbread and salad.

Mixed insect pakoras made with sweet potato, spinach, curried chickpea and mixed insects pakoras with coriander, mango chutney and a coconut & mint yogurt drizzle. Served with salad.

I can't say I am completely sold, but I would give it a go. Bug farming is definitely a more efficient/sustainable way of producing protein than traditional livestock farming: Insects for food and feed

I think consumer resistance might put paid to it - which I find to be a bit bonkers. My masters was based around aquaculture, particularly shrimp as they are economically important. Very little difference really between crustacea and insects but they do seem to cause quite a negative reaction.
I had a student looking into protein powder made from insects to be made into shakes etc. Very complete source, seems like a good idea - I'd consume it.
There's also schemes to turn food waste into black soldier fly larvae which can then be fed to poultry but this seems to keep stalling, which is a shame.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm all for increasing insect farming. They're not all tasty, but grasshoppers certainly are, and they're very efficient to produce. And yeah, turning them into powders could get over the yuck factor. The yuck factor is unfortunate. It stops a lot of otherwise sensible things.

Some aquaculture is positively good for the environment. Rope-grown mussels and oysters ftw. Tasty, very good for you and can help to rebalance nutrients in polluted oceans. Fish farming not so much.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh. The idea that foods often promoted as substitutes for meat and dairy – such as tofu and soy milk – are driving deforestation is a common misconception.

https://ourworldindata.org/soy#:~:text=One%2Dfifth%20of%20the%20world's,be%20used%20for%20industrial%20purposes.

As FM says, this has come up before. About one third of the value is in human food, two thirds in animal food. I don't think it's straightforward to say what is driving deforestation, and animal agriculture is certainly a big part of it, but if you eat tofu, you're taking part in the same system, a system in which the choices of farmers are very much influenced by the human food part of the equation when deciding what to farm.

Animals could be fed and tofu could be made in a system that doesn't drive deforestation. We don't live in that system. How do we get there?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Another undercover exposé of the savagery and barbarity of the UK dairy industry. Can't wait for the day where this absurd, cruel and anachronistic industry is a thing of the past.

The conditions shown in that farm are appalling.

It's incomplete journalism, though. What did they do to follow up? Did they report the farm to the authorities? What did the government vets have to say about it when it was brought to their attention? Is this farm following regulations or blatantly breaking them? If the latter, what did the authorities have to say? Why had they allowed this to happen? If the former, then what are these regulations and how can they be changed?

That would be grown-up journalism. As it is, all there is to say is that the conditions shown in that farm are appalling. No context beyond that.

 

[friedaweed]

tofu can be marinated & grilled with very good results

Marinated Tofu

Never eat bland or boring tofu again! This Marinated Tofu recipe teaches you how to easily transform a regular brick of tofu into the most delicious protein with amazing flavors.

www.noracooks.com

You can roll a turd in glitter...

 

[Funky_monks]

Plant-Based Meat Is in Free Fall

The conditions shown in that farm are appalling.

It's incomplete journalism, though. What did they do to follow up? Did they report the farm to the authorities? What did the government vets have to say about it when it was brought to their attention? Is this farm following regulations or blatantly breaking them? If the latter, what did the authorities have to say? Why had they allowed this to happen? If the former, then what are these regulations and how can they be changed?

That would be grown-up journalism. As it is, all there is to say is that the conditions shown in that farm are appalling. No context beyond that.

I've been on enough dairy farms just nor to bother with the likes of Viva, tbh

 

[Spymaster]

Another undercover exposé of the savagery and barbarity of the UK dairy industry. Can't wait for the day where this absurd, cruel and anachronistic industry is a thing of the past.

I stopped watching at “All females should identify with this species”

 

[editor]

Some shocking facts here

Already, 60% of the mammals on Earth by weight are livestock. Humans account for 36%, wild mammals for just 4%. Of birds, poultry make up 71%, wild species only 29%. While the human population is growing at 1% a year, the livestock population is growing at 2.4%. Global average meat consumption per person is 43kg a year, but swiftly heading towards the UK level of 82kg. The reason is Bennett’s Law: as people become richer, they eat more protein and fat, especially the flesh and secretions of animals.

Substitutes for animal products can greatly reduce this damage. They can allow vast areas to be returned to dispossessed people and the ecosystems they defended.

The first cell-cultured meat recently gained regulatory approval in the United States. At the same time, the taste and texture of plant-based alternatives has greatly improved. I’ve recently eaten three products that are almost indistinguishable from the originals: a steak made by a Slovenian company called Juicy Marbles, a “lamb” fillet from the Israeli company Redefine Meat, and sushi and tempura “seafood” at the London restaurant 123V.

And worryingly

In response, Big Meat has ramped up its campaign of demonisation. That’s understandable. Less so is the support the animal industry receives from people who claim to be green, but happily recite its misleading propaganda. The professor of food and agricultural policy Robert Paarlberg compares this alliance to the inadvertent coalition of Baptists and bootleggers in the US a century ago. By lobbying successfully for the prohibition of alcohol, the Southern Baptists opened the door to gangsters trading in stronger and more dangerous drink. True environmentalists have a duty to break this ultra-conservative consensus.

'Let them eat lentils' won't save us from animal farming – we must embrace meat substitutes | George Monbiot

Our appetite for meat is destroying the planet. But the alternative is looking (and tasting) better by the day, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Plant-Based Meat Is in Free Fall

I've been on enough dairy farms just nor to bother with the likes of Viva, tbh

This is the problem with this kind of 'exposé'. I know nothing about Viva beyond what they say about themselves on their website, but we know that Peta have fabricated videos like this in the past. Without a fully worked piece of journalism with follow-ups, it's not really worth much. They give the impression that this is what the dairy industry as a whole is like. People like you who have extensive knowledge of the dairy industry say that it isn't. Even Jeff Robinson knows that the conditions in that video are very different from the conditions shown in the film Cow.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Some shocking facts here





And worryingly

'Let them eat lentils' won't save us from animal farming – we must embrace meat substitutes | George Monbiot

Our appetite for meat is destroying the planet. But the alternative is looking (and tasting) better by the day, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

The link Monbiot gives to the person reciting 'misleading propaganda' says, among other things, this (similar to points made by FM on this thread):

The benefits of regenerative organic farming practices and leveraging the soil’s ability to mitigate climate change somehow get lost in the discussion when it comes to synthetic biology. Overshadowing it is the blindly accepted assumption that because synthetic biology does not use animals or CAFOs, its environmental impact is much less deleterious.

But is that true?

“Given that their patents reference the need for large amounts of feedstock, it’s clear the industry is just ramping up demand for more GMO seed and cheap GMO crops. This reinforces the loss of biodiversity through monocultures and pesticides, while reducing the vitality of our rural communities by concentrating wealth in corporations, ” warns Alan Lewis, Vice President at Natural Grocers. “The dependence on petrochemical fertilizers and tillage releases tremendous amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. The same cows that synthetic biology wants to replace with ‘sustainable’ fermentation vats are actually critical to recapturing carbon via healthy pasture lands.”

How are they wrong?

 

[editor]

All in the last 12 months - and these were just the ones who were caught.

Footage reveals evidence of animal abuse on farm

Footage shared with BBC Panorama reveals cows being hit and kicked on a large dairy farm in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dairy farm fined £52,000 for causing unnecessary suffering to cows - Dorset Council news

A West Dorset dairy farm has pleaded guilty to causing unnecessary suffering to a cow and a calf by failing to care for them, along with a series of other offences relating to conditions on their farm. Ireosa Ltd, who operate Higher Kingston Russell Farm near Winterborne Abbas, appeared at Poole...

news.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk

Costa and Iceland milk supplier accused of ‘rampant animal cruelty’

https://www.cips.org/A%20campaign%20group%20has%20claimed%20a%20farm%20supplying%20milk%20to%20brands%20including%20Costa%20Coffee%20and%20Iceland%20is%20mistreating%20cows,%20with%20animals%20being%20%E2%80%9Ckicked%20and%20slapped%E2%80%9D%20and%20living%20in%20faeces.ashx?width=300&quality=80

www.cips.org

New allegations of animal abuse won’t help a dairy sector already on the brink

The BBC's Panorama on Monday night saw workers on a dairy farm in west Wales engaged in a series of alleged animal welfare breaches

www.thegrocer.co.uk

Dairy farm has milk contract suspended due to alleged animal cruelty

Madox Farm in Carmarthenshire recently featured on an episode of BBC1's Panorama

www.walesonline.co.uk

Red Tractor terminates farm after BBC uncovered animal abuse

Red Tractor has terminated a dairy farm from its assurance scheme after BBC Panorama showed systematic disregard for animal welfare on the farm.

www.farminguk.com

'Newborn calf kicked on Somerset dairy farm housing young cows in hutches'

AN investigation by Animal Aid into a Somerset dairy farm has revealed the horrendous toll calf hutches play on the animals' mental wellbeing, as…

www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Right, so conditions like those in that video are illegal rather than inherent to dairy farming as a whole. We need to clean up the dairy industry and root out the wrongdoers. Law-abiding dairy farmers will be as fucked off by this as anyone.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Right, so conditions like those in that video are illegal rather than inherent to dairy farming as a whole. We need to clean up the dairy industry and root out the wrongdoers. Law-abiding dairy farmers will be as fucked off by this as anyone.

So is this video probably fabricated like you hinted at in your last post or an example of a 'few bad apples' like you're suggesting in this one. Hard to keep up with the official line of the Ministry of Truth.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So is this video probably fabricated like you hinted at in your last post or an example of a 'few bad apples' like you're suggesting in this one. Hard to keep up with the official line of the Ministry of Truth.

I have no idea if the film is fabricated. I didn't say it was. I did say that it isn't a fully worked piece of journalism. Because it isn't. And because of that, its value on its own is limited.

And if you look at their website, Viva most certainly put across the misleading impression that these conditions are typical of the dairy industry. Bit like you did with your post despite knowing that they're not.