Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[littlebabyjesus]

This 'fish isn't meat' thing is a bit rubbish. It's totally arbitrary, and imo unjustified, to exclude creatures that live in the sea from the 'meat' umbrella.

 

[Funky_monks]

This 'fish isn't meat' thing is a bit rubbish. It's totally arbitrary, and imo unjustified, to exclude creatures that live in the sea from the 'meat' umbrella.

And who die by being crushed to death on the deck of a boat, usually.

 

[Cid]

This 'fish isn't meat' thing is a bit rubbish. It's totally arbitrary, and imo unjustified, to exclude creatures that live in the sea from the 'meat' umbrella.

And potentially devastating in terms of environmental impacts. There is so much we don't know about ocean ecosystems.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's probably fine, I mean I'm not sure a mono anything diet is a great idea, but you don't actually have to eat it all the time of course. There are a lot of things that you can do with other protein sources... Chickpeas to hummus, falafel etc. Sri Lankan cuisine has some good curries with cashews (although they're ethically terrible). Nut pastes/butters in general can be used in various things; curry bases, dipping sauces (e.g satay or muhammara), smoothies etc. You can also obviously just massively cut down meat consumption and, e.g, break down a chicken per month or something. Personally think fish is one of the least ethical things you can eat (depending on source), I've never quite got why people seem to think it's an intermediate ethical step.

Yes, the ethics vary massively on the source, though. Rope-farmed mussels and oysters are really ethical things to eat from an environmental pov (and it's hard to make the case that mussels suffer). Mussel farms have been proposed as a way of reversing the eutrophication of the Baltic Sea.

https://www.submariner-network.eu/i...as_environmental_service_in_Baltic_Proper.pdf

It would be good to have a more nuanced discussion regarding the ethics of farming and food production. It's nowhere near as simple as meat (I include fish in this term) bad, plants good.

 

[furluxor]

Thanks,

it is hard finding good substitudes. I've no idea if it's healthy to eat tofu all the time, though I don't believe in all that soy boy crap. Just a toxic macho meme the carnivore clowns have created. Not eating wheat rules out quite a lot though. I found Tempeh in tesco but I wouldn't call it super cheap and unfortunately while there is more plant based stuff on sale than ever before, most of what's on the shelves is the vegan equivalent of ready meals and junk food (IMVHO)

From what I recall when I last did some digging, tofu is totally fine. As in, it should obviously form part of a varied diet (I wouldn't subsist only on soy) but the horror stories don't seem to have any scientific basis behind them. I'm also not keen on the ultra-processed vegan food but you can get more affordable tempeh in Asian stores. One near my home sells it for £2 for 1kg and it's made in the UK. Look in the freezer aisle.

 

[Cid]

Yes, the ethics vary massively on the source, though. Rope-farmed mussels and oysters are really ethical things to eat from an environmental pov (and it's hard to make the case that mussels suffer). Mussel farms have been proposed as a way of reversing the eutrophication of the Baltic Sea.

https://www.submariner-network.eu/i...as_environmental_service_in_Baltic_Proper.pdf

It would be good to have a more nuanced discussion regarding the ethics of farming and food production. It's nowhere near as simple as meat (I include fish in this term) bad, plants good.

Yeah absolutely. I think we've all repeated multiple times that much of what people are talking about is just capitalism. The likely solution is more labour intensive farming methods that are appropriate to whatever microclimate/soil/water condition etc they're used in...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah absolutely. I think we've all repeated multiple times that much of what people are talking about is just capitalism. The likely solution is more labour intensive farming methods that are appropriate to whatever microclimate/soil/water condition etc they're used in...

Yep. Mixed farming, not monoculture, and rolling out far more intercropping, which is much more labour intensive, but it's not like there is a shortage of people in the world to do the work.

I'd love to see a situation where it's normal for people to spend a few days a month working on their local farm. Good for those of us with computer-based jobs to connect with food production, good for the planet to develop a network of smaller, ethically run farms.

 

[CNT36]

Yes, the ethics vary massively on the source, though. Rope-farmed mussels and oysters are really ethical things to eat from an environmental pov (and it's hard to make the case that mussels suffer). Mussel farms have been proposed as a way of reversing the eutrophication of the Baltic Sea.

https://www.submariner-network.eu/i...as_environmental_service_in_Baltic_Proper.pdf

It would be good to have a more nuanced discussion regarding the ethics of farming and food production. It's nowhere near as simple as meat (I include fish in this term) bad, plants good.

It's been tried. You can try again but you know what will happen.

 

[Karl Masks]

It's probably fine, I mean I'm not sure a mono anything diet is a great idea, but you don't actually have to eat it all the time of course. There are a lot of things that you can do with other protein sources... Chickpeas to hummus, falafel etc. Sri Lankan cuisine has some good curries with cashews (although they're ethically terrible). Nut pastes/butters in general can be used in various things; curry bases, dipping sauces (e.g satay or muhammara), smoothies etc. You can also obviously just massively cut down meat consumption and, e.g, break down a chicken per month or something. Personally think fish is one of the least ethical things you can eat (depending on source), I've never quite got why people seem to think it's an intermediate ethical step.

I'm not saying fish is more ethical, I prefer it from a health perspective. My preference would be a more medieterranean style diet.

 

[CNT36]

Following on from yesterday's spat.

Woman died after eating ‘vegan’ Pret a Manger wrap, inquest told

Celia Marsh, 42, from Wiltshire, who had cow’s milk allergy, suffered fatal reaction after eating Pret sandwich

www.theguardian.com

A woman with a severe allergy to cow’s milk who suffered a fatal reaction after eating a Pret a Manger wrap initially thought she was being “silly” when she began to struggle with her breathing during a family shopping trip because the sandwich label had stated it was “vegan”, her husband told her inquest.

 

[Karl Masks]

From what I recall when I last did some digging, tofu is totally fine. As in, it should obviously form part of a varied diet (I wouldn't subsist only on soy) but the horror stories don't seem to have any scientific basis behind them. I'm also not keen on the ultra-processed vegan food but you can get more affordable tempeh in Asian stores. One near my home sells it for £2 for 1kg and it's made in the UK. Look in the freezer aisle.

That would be much better. Tesco has it for £2.75 for under a third of that.

 

[DaphneM]

Following on from yesterday's spat.

Woman died after eating ‘vegan’ Pret a Manger wrap, inquest told

Celia Marsh, 42, from Wiltshire, who had cow’s milk allergy, suffered fatal reaction after eating Pret sandwich

www.theguardian.com

I hope they are dealt with harshly

As should militant vegans with their nut milk trickery

 

[8ball]

Personally think fish is one of the least ethical things you can eat (depending on source), I've never quite got why people seem to think it's an intermediate ethical step.

Not furry and cute.

 

[8ball]

Interesting - end encouraging - stats here. Great that so many young people are giving up on meat.

Currently, 14% of adults in the UK (7.2 million) are following a meat-free diet.
A further 8.8 million Brits plan to go meat-free in 2022 (the highest figure in 4 years).
This means that the UK could have a total of 16 million meat-free citizens at the beginning of 2023.
Just 2% of those who said they would give up meat in 2021 actually did so.
The most popular meat-free diet is vegetarianism with 3.3 million followers.
Younger generations are significantly more likely to follow a meat-free diet, with gen Z (aged 18 to 23) being the most likely to avoid meat already (25%) and plan on giving it up (30%) in 2022.


View attachment 341540

How many people in the UK are vegetarian, vegan or pescatarian in 2022?

According to our survey, 86% of the population currently eat meat in their diets.
This means that around 7.2 million British adults (14%) currently follow a meat-free diet.

How many vegetarians are there in the UK?

With around 3.3 million people in the UK (6%), the vegetarian diet remains the most common of the non-meat diets.

How many pescatarians are there in the UK?

The next most popular meat-free diet at the moment is the pescatarian diet, with around 2.4 million Brits (5%) opting for this diet. How many vegans are there in the UK?

Lastly, there are around 1.6 million people in the UK who are currently vegan (3%), a number which is growing rapidly.

How many people plan to give up meat in 2022?

Brits are once again optimistic about cutting meat out of their diets in 2022. 8.8 million of us plan to become vegetarian, vegan or pescatarian over the next 12 months – the highest figure recorded in the 4 years that we’ve been running this research.

While our previous research suggests it is very unlikely that everyone will stick to these intentions, if they did, the UK would have a total of 16 million meat-free citizens at the beginning of 2023.

Which generation eats the least meat?

There is a clear age divide when it comes to views on eating meat. Our studies show that those aged 18 to 23 (generation Z) are currently the most meat-free generation.

A quarter (25%) of generation Z said that they currently go without meat by following a pescatarian, vegetarian or vegan diet.

This is a slight increase from last year’s most meat-free generation, millennials (24-42), of which 20% had adopted either a pescatarian, vegetarian or vegan diet.

Millennials are not far behind this survey – currently 18% follow a meat-free diet and they could be joined by an additional 27% throughout 2022. 9.6% are already following a different type of diet outside the main 3 meat-free diets. Just 1 in 10 (11%) of the silent generation (aged 74+) avoid meat and only 5% plan to do so in 2022.

Source: How many vegetarians and vegans are in the UK?

What were your feelings about the sample size and representativeness of survey locations?

 

[editor]

Following on from yesterday's spat.

Woman died after eating ‘vegan’ Pret a Manger wrap, inquest told

Celia Marsh, 42, from Wiltshire, who had cow’s milk allergy, suffered fatal reaction after eating Pret sandwich

www.theguardian.com

Except it doesn't really match any of the pertinent details in any meaningful way.

 

[DaphneM]

What were your feelings about the sample size and representativeness of survey locations?

/You can find a lot of criticism of Censuswide's methodology

 

[WouldBe]

Maybe go back and read what you wrote again. You've lost the thread of what you're arguing about.

The argument was about who drink cows milk but won't eat red meat.

Chicken has always been classed as white meat and fish is fish.

As I understand it you get:-
Carnists
Ovo-lacto ists
Piscatarians
Vegetarians
Fruitarians
Vegans
I don't see where these milk drinking non red meat eating people fit in the scheme of things.

It's no wonder it's confusing when even the vegetarians don't seem to agree on what vegetarianism is.

 

[furluxor]

One near my home sells it for £2 for 1kg

Karl Masks and anyone else who were reading - soz, just checked, it's not as good as a deal as I thought - £1.70 for 400g.

 

[8ball]

Karl Masks and anyone else who were reading - soz, just checked, it's not as good as a deal as I thought - £1.70 for 400g.

Inflation, or just misremembering?

 

[CNT36]

Except it doesn't really match any of the pertinent details in any meaningful way.

Whatever.

 

[furluxor]

Inflation, or just misremembering?

Ha, afraid it's just my crappy memory. I mean, they look like big slabs!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What were your feelings about the sample size and representativeness of survey locations?

I'd also doubt the honesty of some of the answers tbh. My experience especially of people who describe themselves as 'pescatarian' is that they often don't stick even to that rather modest dietary restriction. It's more of an aspiration. As for 'I'm going to give up meat next year', the report itself admits that this is a virtually worthless promise. Bit like 'I'm going to give up smoking soon'. (Also the timing of the survey matters there. It was done in December. Giving up meat for New Year is a common NY resolution, and we know how effective NY resolutions are.)

 

[Poot]

The argument was about who drink cows milk but won't eat red meat.

Chicken has always been classed as white meat and fish is fish.

As I understand it you get:-
Carnists
Ovo-lacto ists
Piscatarians
Vegetarians
Fruitarians
Vegans
I don't see where these milk drinking non red meat eating people fit in the scheme of things.

It's no wonder it's confusing when even the vegetarians don't seem to agree on what vegetarianism is.

You know, it's okay to cut down on whatever you want and not call yourself anything, right? You seem to have this idea that 'those people over there are different to me and have different labels.' Give up milk, give up meat, or don't, call yourself whatever you want. Who gives a shit? It's only important if someone's cooking you dinner.

 

[8ball]

The argument was about who drink cows milk but won't eat red meat.

Chicken has always been classed as white meat and fish is fish.

As I understand it you get:-
Carnists
Ovo-lacto ists
Piscatarians
Vegetarians
Fruitarians
Vegans
I don't see where these milk drinking non red meat eating people fit in the scheme of things.

It's no wonder it's confusing when even the vegetarians don't seem to agree on what vegetarianism is.

I'm a proud ovo-lacto-pollo-pesco-carno vegetarian, thank you very much.

 

[WouldBe]

You know, it's okay to cut down on whatever you want and not call yourself anything, right? You seem to have this idea that 'those people over there are different to me and have different labels.' Give up milk, give up meat, or don't, call yourself whatever you want. Who gives a shit? It's only important if someone's cooking you dinner.

Or sticking potentially dangerous substances in your tea.

 

[8ball]

Seems like “fungo” should be in there, really, but it seems to come under “vegetarian”..

 

[Spymaster]

Or sticking potentially dangerous substances in your tea.

But it’s ok to play silly tricks like that on carnists. If someone posted about feeding a vegan a risotto that was secretly made with chicken stock that they didn’t notice and even said was nice, they’d be roundly, and rightly, pilloried.

 

[editor]

Or sticking potentially dangerous substances in your tea.

So you do have evidence of people dying as a result of them drinking a slosh of oat milk in their tea when they've visited someone's house (and not telling their host about their extreme allergic reactions)?

Great. Let's see it. And all the assault/manslaughter charges arising from such heinous crimes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So you do have evidence of people dying as a result of them drinking a slosh of oat milk in their tea when they've visited someone's house?

Great. Let's see it. And all the assault/manslaughter charges arising from this heinous crime.

Give it a rest. You got caught out admitting to doing something that's actually a bit thoughtless. Own it.

 

[DaphneM]

But it’s ok to play silly tricks like that on carnists. If someone posted about feeding a vegan a risotto that was secretly made with chicken stock ‘but they didn’t notice and even said it was nice’, they’d be roundly, and rightly, pilloried.

Parent reveals she feeds vegan friend's daughter meat in secret

An anonymous woman, believed to be from the US, took to Reddit where she revealed that she feeds her vegan friend's daughter meat in secret.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Pilloried