Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?
- Thread starter MrCurry
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given the nutritional density of meat I'd say it very well can be cheaper. A lot of vegan food is expensive. I already mentioned tofu, and it's not loaded with nutrients eitherWhich towns don't have street markets or cheap supermarkets? Or access to online supermarkets?
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This notion that it's somehow cheaper to eat meat is utter tosh but not half as tosh as the ludicrous argument that eating beef is better for the environment.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
And yet no one has given any solutions to how we are to get to a place with a much less/or no meat consuming population ? I work in a supermarket and can report we sell shit loads of meat...there are small meat free and vegan areas in my shop but it's tiny compared to the bulk of what else is sold....
Try and encourage people to eat less for environmental/health reasons? Make it more expensive/less available?
I mean if we stopped/reduced factory farming, prices would presumably need to go up.
butcher
boner at the ready
Because Ed has appears to have become a bit Frank Doberman about the whole meat thing since eschewing meat and dairy, ie unable to do ought but quoth the Nicean creed of the converted Vegan.
Generally I find him a benign Despot of the boards but in this case he seems a trifle autocratic...
A little less vim and more considered respect for debate and differing views would perhaps encourage more reasoned exchange.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
It's not pricing the poor out of existence, it would be making meat more expensive as a public heath measure, both on personal and environmental levels. Because there are other things people can eat.
Obviously it's a regressive tax and there are discussions to be had about that. But then again, making things more expensive has been effective in terms of reducing smoking/drinking...
Minimum unit alcohol price has 'lasting impact'
The benefits of implementing a minimum cost for alcohol continue to have an impact, a new study finds.
www.bbc.co.uk
Price, Income, and Affordability as the Determinants of Tobacco Consumption: A Practitioner’s Guide to Tobacco Taxation
AbstractIntroduction. Tobacco product prices and consumers’ income are the two major economic determinants of tobacco demand. The affordability of tobacco
academic.oup.com
Or move the subsidies elsewhere to encourage people to eat less meat.
editor
hiraethified
So beef is now cheaper than vegetables? Awesome stuff.
editor
hiraethified
Thanks for the unprovoked personal attack, but - FYI - I'm not vegan and never have been. I just wish people would follow the advice coming from experts - and not the meat loons here - and eat less meat. And that's what I've been consistently saying throughout this thread (and the others).
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
editor
hiraethified
Iceland and Sainsbury's is £25 not that all this whataboutery has got much to do with anything because if there's no local shops, it'll be more expensive for supermarket meat deliveries too.Most online supermarkets have a min order value. My local one is £40. I've just been to the supermarket and spent £28 to feed me and 2 dogs for a week. So would have to buy 2 weeks of food at a time. Not sure fresh fruit and veg would last well for 2 weeks.
editor
hiraethified
So what other ideas do you have to cut back meat consumption? Why not tax the fuck out of meat and massively subsidise meat-free products for the less well off.
getting enough protein is an issue and has always has been a class issue not helped by the cynical methods that industry advertise 'with protein' when on close observation of the contents show something like less than 6% protein. Plus the issue that a lot of non meat products have proteins that are not as easily absorbed or have more aggressive proteins like gluten, lectin etc. so i get why people buy meat. What i don't get is why the need so much meat.
Hopefully everyone would eat less meat. I can't remember there being an outcry when cigarette prices go up about only the affluent being able to afford fags, can you? But I do know a load of reasonably well-off people where price was a factor in their giving up.
And look at the effect of all those public health campaigns. Loads of young folk are now utterly horrified at the whole idea of smoking. Maybe we need something similar around meat reduction?
People may have grown used to cheap meat but that has had consequences environmentally and health-wise so maybe we need to reverse that. Maybe it again needs to be looked at as a treat or something that people have a few times a week rather than every day.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
You make it sound so simple, as i said i agree that we eat too much meat as a society but it's a much more complicated issue......and tbh i can't see it happening in the foreseeable future and taxing the hell out of meat would still mean it would be the preserve of the affluent.....loads of people are just not going to change their tastes and habits that have been in place for generations that fast...
But it's not been generations. You yourself said you remember when it was viewed as more of a luxury.
And look at the massive societal change we've had round smoking. When I was young, huge numbers of people smoked and smoked everywhere. Now if you smoke, you're verging on social pariah status. And that change has been in what, 30 years?
Off the top of my head, seatbelt wearing and drink driving are other examples where major societal change has occurred in my lifetime so it is possible.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
I work in a shop that is in a very low wage poorer (being diplomatic 'hard') area.....we still sell a lot of fags and tobacco and really don't think people (even those of us that smoke) equate fags on the same level as meat....fucking hell eviromental issues...i walk to work in large amounts of litter everyday, we sell huge amounts of bags for life if not more than before (our local students especially) there is a massive disconnect between these messages and large swathes of the population....and no i'm not being a snob (before anyone makes a comment) just saying what i see everyday ! Just think that persuading huge amounts of people to radically change their diet will be an uphill struggle
I'm not saying it'll be easy but we need to start discussing/thinking about this stuff and sooner rather than later.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
editor
hiraethified
No I think it's an incredibly difficult task, as witnessed by the pro-meat cultists in full denial here.
The kind of people who claim that we'd be better off eating beef instead of vegetables, and that vegetables are suddenly exorbitantly expensive and not as cheap as meat.
I am too
. It would be interesting though to see what effect increasing cigarette prices has had on your tobacco sales as I'd be surprised if it hadn't had some.'the effects of taxation (on smoking cessation and ultimately on smoking prevention in the longer-term [1], and on reducing tobacco consumption and prevalence among young people e.g. “The World Bank has calculated that a 10% increase in the price of cigarettes on average reduces demand by 4% in high-income countries such as the UK. The effect of a 10% price increase on the 77 billion cigarettes sold in the UK would be to reduce consumption by about 3 billion cigarettes per year.” [1,2]
- "A recent systematic review amongst 13 to 24 year olds also concluded that price affected both the number of young smokers and the amount of tobacco consumed.”) [1,2]
- increasing the price of cigarettes due to the consistent evidence that it is more effective in reducing smoking in lower-income adults and among smokers in manual occupations and “the intervention for which there is the strongest evidence as a measure for reducing smoking-related inequalities in health” [6,7]
Health Outcomes Performance Management: Welcome
www.healthscotland.com
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
I'm sure pricing etc has had an effect but it's still a very large (albeit) minority....also vaping is probably taking it's placeI am too
'the effects of taxation (on smoking cessation and ultimately on smoking prevention in the longer-term [1], and on reducing tobacco consumption and prevalence among young people e.g. “The World Bank has calculated that a 10% increase in the price of cigarettes on average reduces demand by 4% in high-income countries such as the UK. The effect of a 10% price increase on the 77 billion cigarettes sold in the UK would be to reduce consumption by about 3 billion cigarettes per year.” [1,2]
- "A recent systematic review amongst 13 to 24 year olds also concluded that price affected both the number of young smokers and the amount of tobacco consumed.”) [1,2]
- increasing the price of cigarettes due to the consistent evidence that it is more effective in reducing smoking in lower-income adults and among smokers in manual occupations and “the intervention for which there is the strongest evidence as a measure for reducing smoking-related inequalities in health” [6,7]
Health Outcomes Performance Management: Welcome
www.healthscotland.com
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
On the other hand, meat consumed in relatively high quantities is a pretty recent thing that hasn’t been happening very long. And meat consumption has been dropping here for a while.
The tricky part is making sure people on a wide range of income have access to a variety of healthy food (esp. the fruit/veg etc.).
Sure. But smoking rates among young folk look to have decreased so I guess that minority will continue to decrease.
And yep on the vaping front. There's still not enough evidence about long-term effects but it currently appears to be less harmful than tobacco so that feels like a (harm reduction) win.
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WouldBe
Dislicksick
No it won't you'd just need to order more and meat freezes better that a lot of fruit and veg.
Frozen fruit and veg are good
Whataboutery.
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