8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I'm confused as to what is being demonstrated here.
Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?
- Thread starter MrCurry
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I'm confused as to what is being demonstrated here.
I guess if you call everything whataboutery you'll correctly identify when it appears
Ok, so is that question:
a) assuming current factory farming conditions?
b) current capitalist markets?
c) assuming anyone who isn't one of those carnivore nutbags wants beef to replace veg?
because none of those are things I advocate for. I don't want capitalist farming to continue, I already said so. I also don't in any way think peoplke should stop eating veg. The carnivore diet is unproven wonk put froward by utter grifters like Peterson's shitty daughter or that steroid induced twat, Baker, or the 'plandemic' con artist, Ivor Cummins. For the record while I eat keto I have seen a ton of people in that community turn into utter antivax twats during this pandemic.
I just don't see that meat eating is inevitably going to destroy the world.
knowing the path and walking the path are not the same, neohopper
editor
hiraethified
There's really need to load up an answer to a straightforward question with a ton of twisty caveats.I guess if you call everything whataboutery you'll correctly identify when it appears
Ok, so is that question:
a) assuming current factory farming conditions?
b) current capitalist markets?
c) assuming anyone who isn't one of those carnivore nutbags wants beef to replace veg?
because none of those are things I advocate for. I don't want capitalist farming to continue, I already said so. I also don't in any way think peoplke should stop eating veg. The carnivore diet is unproven wonk put froward by utter grifters like Peterson's shitty daughter or that steroid induced twat, Baker, or the 'plandemic' con artist, Ivor Cummins. For the record while I eat keto I have seen a ton of people in that community turn into utter antivax twats during this pandemic.
I just don't see that meat eating is inevitably going to destroy the world.
knowing the path and walking the path are not the same, neohopper
So I'll try again: right now, do you believe it's better for the environment if people stopped eating veg and ate beef instead? And if so, what studies can you produce to support such a claim?
There is when you're asking me to take a position I don't hold in defence of things I don't agree with that I've already explained. Your problem is that you think this is just simple.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
So accepting the argument that we need to eat less meat or eventually none at all....how do people propose this should or would happen ?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Brits get to eat meat Monday, Wednesday and Friday and the French get Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Sunday is veggie curry night for everyone.
mentalchik
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit."
Apparently between 10 and 12 million cats in the UK alone......that's a lot of spaying...and how would this be enforced ?
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Emissions Outputs from Agriculture in the EU.I'm confused as to what is being demonstrated here.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
And given that the price of many things, including vegetables, would likely double overnight, how could we afford to eat anything?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
With the units and stuff, it looks to me like a diagram breaking down how much money was made from the various sectors.
edit: and it looks like Jeff brought this up earlier, together with a source document which backs this up. I'm not sure whether I've got horribly confused or you have.
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
It’s not you who’s horribly confused
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
We need to eat less meat, says Welsh minister Lee Waters
People should eat less meat in a bid to tackle climate change, says Welsh government minister.
www.bbc.co.uk
The Welsh and UK governments have legally binding targets to reduce greenhouse emissions to net zero by 2050.
In its latest net zero plan, the Welsh government said its ambition over the next 20 years was to shift people's diet, meaning a "substantial increase in fruit and vegetables, a decrease in red and processed meats and dairy products and a decrease in foods high in fat and sugar".
The report references a recommendation from the independent Climate Change Committee that there should be a "20% cut in meat and dairy consumption by 2030, rising to 35% by 2050 for meat only, with meat and dairy being replaced with plant based products".
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
We need to eat less meat, says Welsh minister Lee Waters
People should eat less meat in a bid to tackle climate change, says Welsh government minister.www.bbc.co.uk
The Welsh and UK governments have legally binding targets to reduce greenhouse emissions to net zero by 2050.
In its latest net zero plan, the Welsh government said its ambition over the next 20 years was to shift people's diet, meaning a "substantial increase in fruit and vegetables, a decrease in red and processed meats and dairy products and a decrease in foods high in fat and sugar".
The report references a recommendation from the independent Climate Change Committee that there should be a "20% cut in meat and dairy consumption by 2030, rising to 35% by 2050 for meat only, with meat and dairy being replaced with plant based products".
That seems pretty modest. Just going half-quorn on the mince etc. and tweaking relative portion sizes could get that done for a lot of families.
I do wonder about the “legally binding” bit, since I seem to remember such promises in the past. Wonder what happens if this is not hit.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
As legally binding as Article 16?
Legally binding... Lol
Yeah, bit sceptical about that bit too.
Meat consumption in the UK dropped 17% between 2008 and 2019, so seems like a pretty easy target. Getting a decent increase in fruit and veg consumption seems likely harder to me.
Nothing there I can personally disagree with as an aim, though a little emphasis on moving away from heavily processed foods would have been welcome.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Spot on. Most people can no longer afford fruit, as its price has risen by around 1/3 in the last year, but it's nice to see the wealthy insisting that everyone should give up meat and eat more fruit.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
No one is saying “give up” in that article. There are subsidies currently propping up the fossil fuel industry that could be used to help with initiatives to make decent affordable food more accessible.
Guess it depends on how Governments handle it - just preaching at struggling families to buy more expensive stuff won’t wash. A related article I saw talked about “behavioural nudges”, which made me a bit sus about the depth of any resulting policies.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
The rich love to preach to others about what they should do. This thread is no different. Lots of people shouting about what people should do without giving a single fuck about how they achieve it. It's classic haves/have nots nonsense.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I’m not party to everyone’s circumstances but I don’t get the impression that the posters on this thread arguing for meat reduction are ‘rich’.
Would agree that things need to go beyond ‘preaching’ from Govt, though.
There’s some low-hanging fruit (pun intended) in terms of the amount of fresh produce that ends up wasted…
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Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
They're obviously rich enough to be able to afford to eat plenty of fruit. I can't afford that.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
We’ve seen a big increase in the proportion of economic productivity that goes straight to the richest. So that could be fixed, or at least helped a lot, but expecting the Tories to prioritise that is clearly a pipe dream. Not that I think anyone here expects that.
I’ve not found fruit to be terribly expensive generally but I did notice an increased grocery bill the other day and it was the nuts and berries that were causing the hit.
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kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
Pay to spay.
Folks who want to eat meat can eat them. Win win.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
It's easy to insist everyone turns vegan, when you're financially well off enough to make those decisions on others' behalf.
We’ve seen a big increase in the proportion of economic productivity that goes straight to the richest. So that could be fixed, but expecting the Tories to prioritise that is clearly a pipe dream. Not that I think anyone here expects that.
editor
hiraethified
This notion that fruit and veg is somehow really expensive and out of reach of many is one of the more ridiculous arguments in this thread. It's not hard to find street markets (and supermarkets) selling plenty of fruit and veg that is wildly affordable, even more so if you're going to compare it to beef/pork or whatever (and let's not forget plenty of animal produce is heavily subsidised).
I've had long spells on the dole as a vegetarian and never had problems finding decent veggie food to eat. I mean how cheap are potatoes, carrots, broccoli or loads of other vegetables?
I've had long spells on the dole as a vegetarian and never had problems finding decent veggie food to eat. I mean how cheap are potatoes, carrots, broccoli or loads of other vegetables?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
My own experience, from spending almost two years on a vegetarian (bordering on vegan) diet, tells me that a healthy vegan diet is much more expensive than a healthy omnivorous diet, and that was 12 years ago, when fruit was relatively cheap. I couldn't possibly afford to be a vegan now, as I couldn't afford to eat enough fruit and nuts to provide the nutrients I'd need to eat healthily.
YMMV
YMMV
Not everywhere is Brixton.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
And I don't care how much my nutrients are subsidised, so long as I can afford them.
Lots of vegetables, grains, etc aren't considered fit for human consumption, and those are sold as feed for animals that we do eat. What's going to happen to this 'scrap' when meat is off the menu? A perfect example is soy. At present the waste from soy is sold to farmers as feed for animals, and it accounts for ~1/2 of the income from the crop, but if that avenue of revenue is done away with, then the price must rise for human consumption, and to cover costs, it must rise by 100%, unless we can feed the waste to humans, and I'm sure we can feed some of it to us but there will be a shortfall, and farmers are already working on margins that are unsustainable, so the cost of all foodstuffs will rise dramatically, as so much of what we eat is subsidised by what we can't eat getting fed to what we can eat.
souljacker
innit
Seems to me that the answer to all of this is that we eat the rich.
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