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Buying a home and don't know how anything works

Ah yes, but I am hoping they will give me this discount I will ask about tomorrow. What other sort of major works could there be?

I just want somewhere to live without strangers :(
Painting communal areas, Painting your front door, heating/water system changes, new windows, refurbishing the lifts, guttering, pathway replacement, landscaping.

It's all stuff you might do in your own house (bar lifts) so you never escape this sort of stuff. The problem is you a) can't do it yourself and b) have no control over when it gets done c) probably won't be getting good value for money.

Might be worth if other regulars in this post could tag people who they may know have a lease in a flat but aren't following this thread, to give some example of what their costs have been. Sadly I don't know of anyone, but I'll ask on FB and see what responses I get.
 
Are there lifts on other parts of the estate?

lifts, heating and roof are the obvious big spends, outdoor painting too as it probably needs a cherry picker or similar so plant costs entailed
 
No lifts, thankfully! And the sellers got new windows and patio doors themselves not that long ago. (Why would they do that?)

Check that with the council (don't say it's been done, but ask if it's something you can get your own workmen in to do) last thing you want is a bill for having to put it back to how it's supposed to be. Usually these places have fronts (windows/doors/fascias) that are all the same or at the very least 'in character' with the building.

I'd have assumed permission from the freeholder would have had to have been obtained. If the council say that's allowed, ensure your vendors have given you the documentation saying so so it doesn't fall back on you.
 
Will have a look through the documents again. There was something about the windows in there but didn't really understand it. (How did people do all this before the internet?!)

Ok, just checked. Windows replaced in 2012 (not that recently then) and got permission.

Also, re the roof works, once the work is completed, I will get an invoice within 18 months, and get up to 24 months to pay it off.
 
Wondering if I am being really stupid to buy this place and whether I should pull out completely.

If I pull out now, I lose:
solicitors fees, search fees, survey fees = bit less than £2,000
plus minimum (at a guess) 6 more months of renting - and I can't go on sharing, so let's say £3600 just for rent, assuming I could find anywhere for £600/month and anyone would even rent to me without a steady income. Plus moving costs and all the faff that comes with moving in etc. Plus going through the stress and hassle of trying to find somewhere else to buy :/ Ah FFS.

Friend of mine has just bailed on a property at the last minute, there were too many red flags.

Knot weed problem (apparently there was a communal fund for sorting this), sink hole worries not far from the property, and the major clincher that "major works" on the buildings are due to take place in a couple of years but nobody could give a definitive answer as to what the "works" were. A previous buyer had also backed out at the last minute.

Yes she lost a lot of money in fees etc. but Imo it could have been a nightmare further down the line. She was getting so much hassle to complete and I thought they were trying to bounce her into signing on the dotted line, thankfully she backed out.
 
And the sellers got new windows and patio doors themselves not that long ago. (Why would they do that?)

assuming they were leaseholders by then, probably because the council were only doing them for tenants and / or wanted to charge an amount they didn't like to have them done?
 
It really doeant sound anything other than totally standard tbh miss direct especially in a block of flats etc. My sister got hit with a sudden bill for the roof once in hers and had to take out a loan to pay the 12k.. these things happen.

Imo you are in a good position as a cash buyer not spending at your very limit and you might as well push this sale through if possible. It sounds like the sellers are in financial trouble but hey...

Personally I would be ringing the lawyer to ask them Qs and sound things out. Especially if you are considering askig for a reduction etc (an option still) or want stuff explained. It's their job to do this.

If you want to know about the roof you could just get onto the estate agents tomorrow and imply the urgency etc.. see what the sellers know. You need some figures.
 
Will have a look through the documents again. There was something about the windows in there but didn't really understand it. (How did people do all this before the internet?!)

Ok, just checked. Windows replaced in 2012 (not that recently then) and got permission.

Also, re the roof works, once the work is completed, I will get an invoice within 18 months, and get up to 24 months to pay it off.

I'd say two things to bear in mind about the roof works:

There will be scaffolding up for a really long time. Far longer than necessary. It can be annoying and intrusive.

OTOH, homes need a roof. If you weren't paying within the next couple of years, you might have to to pay in the time you own the flat. If you do sell this place on in the next ten years or so, it'll be a place where you can show that one of the major works has been done recently and paid for. And at least you'll know you have a safe roof, which matters even if you're not top floor.
 
Up early today and making a list. I have many calls to make, but just not sure in what order to do them. Do I really need to involve the solicitor? Should I do the price negotiating by myself via the estate agent, or do they need to be involved?
 
Up early today and making a list. I have many calls to make, but just not sure in what order to do them. Do I really need to involve the solicitor? Should I do the price negotiating by myself via the estate agent, or do they need to be involved?
I wouldn’t involve the solicitor with the price negotiation. I’d ask the solicitor to advise on the legal position then use that knowledge to decide what to do on price.
 
Thank you. So my calls are:
1) council to try and chase more info about an estimated cost of the new roof. And to find out if there is a cap.

2) solicitor - ask about various things - boiler, roof, carpets etc - explain my position and ask for their input on dealing with estate agent/price. They may give me useful info about why everything has been taken so long.

3) estate agent - may ask again about why the previous sales fell through. Express my disappointment at finding out about the major works so late in the process. Explain I have a fixed amount of money for the purchase and getting it up to standard. Still interested in proceeding but would like to reduce my offer to the guide price. I now have to pay for a boiler service (and they lied about having it serviced earlier on in the process), carpets, and a potentially very high bill for roof, none of which were anticipated. Therefore I want to reduce to the guide price.

Let them stew on it. They either accept, or offer me something in the middle.

Up till now I've not been open about the figures involved but I will share now!

So the current owners bought under right to buy for £46,000 in 2005. The guide price on sale was £95,000. Estate agent told me they were looking for £100,000, so that was my first offer. (I was also informed that the most expensive one similar had gone for £120,000, but was in much better condition/had improvements.) As a few other people were offering (apparently), it went to best and final offers. My offer of £103,350 was accepted.

Going by that, is it a bit of a gamble asking to drop to £95,000? My thinking is they will either accept it (hopefully), offer to meet in the middle (also ok), or just say no. In which case the whole saga continues for them. Do they still have to pay council tax and things while the property is theirs?
 
You can only ask but might be worth giving some thought about what you would be happy paying given everything you've learnt.

Have you checked the market to see what has become available since you decided on this flat? As a true cash buyer you are in a strong position.
 
Roof stuff: that article you shared about the company winning the contract to do major works was from February, so imho the vendors could/would have known about the major works in the offing and arguably could/should have let you know sooner.

I mean, yes, the information has turned up in the ordinary course of things anyway, albeit only after much chasing by your solicitor of responses to searches, etc. Disclosing at such a late stage in the game does smack a bit of cornering/conning you into thinking 'I've already spent so much, I'll lose around £2-3,000 if I pull out at this stage' so it seems like the information has only been disclosed at the last minute so that you're already very emotionally - and moreover financially - invested in the purchase.

Trust me: this kind of stuff is talk of the town amongst ex-council flat leaseholders, who's heard what on the grapevine about works, costs, when the works will start, how long they will take, etc.

So, yes, try to get a reduction on the purchase price.

I'd also ask the council whether your block is earmarked as one of the blocks that will have solar PV and batteries installed.

"We will use Marley products during the first year of the programme, which also includes the trial installation of solar PV and battery storage to some communal flats that will be contractor designed."


As part of the disclosures, have you/your solicitor requested copies of recent service charge bills?

I'd hazard a guess that if yours is a low level block with maybe just lighting in communal areas/external security lighting, security door/intercom, mains power fire alarm/smoke alarm, and some power points for cleaning staff to plug in vacuum cleaners/floor buffers/whatever, then yours won't be one of the blocks, but there's also mention of batteries, and some solar PV systems can feed into the electricity grid and earn money for the owner, so I wouldn't rule out that the council might do that on some low-level blocks.

If (and it's a big if, as I don't necessarily think the expense of installation would be warranted if it's only to power lights and cleaners' power points and security doors, fire alarm) they are planning to install a solar PV system on your block, that could reduce some of the costs for your service charge bill, ie lighting in communal areas and other power usage in your block, but then any savings would have to be offset against ongoing maintenance and repair costs associated with the solar PV system (and, of course, installation would also add to the cost of major works bill). Although if it is the type of system that also feeds into the grid and potentially earns money, how would that work? If it is that type of system is the council planning to just treat it as a money spinner to generate revenues? Or could/would it potentially reduce your service charge bill?

I'd ask those questions over the phone, but also put them in writing/ask for a response in writing (because a verbal response isn't necessarily believable, although even a written response isn't necessarily worth anything, it's just you might have more comeback at a later date if they put something in writing.)

Re costs of roof, my flat's in a small block of three. Unfortunately, because my flat's on the top floor, that meant mine was the only flat affected by roof leaks for around a decade before I bought my flat.

When I was going through Right to Buy, I said I wanted to replace the roof at my cost (because I was sick of their cowboy builders doing bodge jobs and failing to fix the problem). They'd already replaced the roof when I was still a tenant, with another asphalt flat roof, for around £11k, which failed within 18 months and they couldn't find paperwork with warranties/guarantees. So when I was buying it, I got a quote for £22k for a green roof, which was a flat roof big enough to cover large three bedroom flat and communal stairwell. In theory, that kind of cost would be split between however many flats are in the block. I said I didn't care, I wanted to just pay for it myself as it wasn't my downstairs neighbours being affected by leaks, it was me. They refused permission, so I had to suffer more leaks.

A couple of years later, the housing association (all council stock had by now been transferred to an ALMO (Arms Length Management Organisation), semi-privatisation of council housing, spinning it off out of council direct control. They decided they wanted to replace flat roofs on our estate with pitched roofs. I think the cost would've been in the region of £40k (again, the size to cover large three bed flat plus communal stairwell). But residents objected, and they backed down and installed green roofs.

Luckily my contribution was capped to £250, because the works were done as part of a programme of major works bringing flats across the estate up to the Decent Homes standard, including new windows, kitchens, bathrooms and gas central heating for all tenanted flats, and just new windows for most leasehold flats. And the new green roofs on end blocks (the main run of low level blocks along the street have long pitched roofs, it's just the end blocks that have flat roofs).

I think I've mentioned in this thread before that the council/housing association has to serve a Section 20 Notice on leaseholders and to properly consult leaseholders, and if they don't do it properly then what could/would otherwise have been a bill for thousands of pounds of building works is capped at £250, so it's to leaseholders' benefit that council/housing association staff are notoriously inefficient and/or incompetent.

So you could end up paying £thousands or you could end up paying £250.

A pitched roof on my block would've had to be built from scratch on a flat roof, would've cost £40k divided by three, so £13-14k, whereas contribution to green roof would've been £7-8k. That was about eight(?) years ago.

I'd hazard a guess that they would probably just be replacing tiles and felt and flashing, maybe pointing chimneys while they're up there (if you have them), and only replacing any joists if inspections noted damage need for repairs/replacement, so it shouldn't/wouldn't cost as much as a pitched roof built from scratch.

But it's how long is a piece or string? Mine was done years ago. Costs in the building trade are currently crazy, some stuff has gone up in price massively, although whether prices will have settled down by the time your works are done, who knows?

In any event, it looks like q price has already been agreed and contract signed, although whether there are any clauses that cover the costs of increasing costs to leaseholders in the event the job costs more, who knows..?

Personally, in your shoes, unless and until I can get a better breakdown of costs from the council, I'd be mentally setting aside £10-15k of my inheritance to cover this. (Although your share might be more or less, I'm just going off my own ex-council flat roof costs, for a smaller block of flats, with a different type of roof.)

Bear in mind, of course, as others have pointed out, that even if you were buying a freehold house, these are the kinds of costs that come with being a homeowner irrespective of whether you're a freeholder or leaseholder. In some respects, you arguably have more control, to a certain extent, over when to do works, and to decide to get them done when you can afford it, when you're a freeholder rather than a leaseholder. But then again, even when you're a freeholder, you're not necessarily in control, because you might be hit with an unexpected repair bill at any time. It comes with the territory.

But as a leaseholder, though, especially of an ex-council flat, they will usually offer payment plans, effectively interest-free loans, which it would be in your interest to take advantage of, even if you have the means to pay the bill straightaway.
 
Just off the phone to the council. No costing as of yet, but a few interesting things. There may not be a need for a new roof. The surveyors will check, and depending on the findings, may just do gutters or repairs or entire roof. Just depends. The roof looks fine to me, but what do I know about rooves?
 
Depends how the contracted company are getting paid for the works, do they get their full £35m regardless of how many roofs they do, or just the roofs they do, probably end up with a new roof even if you don't need one. I think there was a article up above about how some residents contested a new roof was not actually required so managed to get the bill down. Have all of this stuff at hand for when the eventual shit hits the fan down the line so you're informed.

As for money off. So you want to go from £103,350 to £95,000?

This is a conversation with the estate agent at first, not the solicitor. Solicitor only needs to be told when or if a new price has been agreed, but you may wish to get their input first or make them aware you're going to attempt to renegotiate before they draw up any contracts.

Basically you want a reduction due to carpets, boiler and major works. I think the only one you'll really maybe get an ok from is the carpets if i'm honest, and in most case people eventually rip up whats left behind for their own tastes. You need to figure out howe much new caprets would cost and try and get that reduction. They may say ok, but we'll only take £500 off. Boiler I don't think you really have much chance of a reduction on if I'm honest, it works. Major works could have got announced further down the line and is a cost you'll have to swallow regardless and is part and parcel of just being a leasehold. I don't think you'll get much off, if anything. However if you don't ask you'll never know, but i seriously doubt they will take an almost £10k reduction. I probably wouldn't in their shoes if i'm honest. You might realistically get it down to £100k, but not much less. However, I don't know how desperate they are, see what happens.
 
I think I may just ask for 100. I dont want to take the piss (even though I feel like i have been at times.)

You've consistently given excellent advice. Thanks.
 
It sucks if you think you're taking the piss, and then get a response that seems more postive than you expected and should have asked for more. (Usually underestimate my worth at work for example when it comes to pay)

The estate agent probably knows what the minimum the sellers would accept from previous offers, but obviously won't disclose that, so the fact she sounded positive still inclines they will accept, or at least would have previously.

Good luck, are you planning on another viewing to ensure they haven't done any other weird shit you weren't expecting.

Remember the place should be exactly as what the fixtures/fittings and contents forms say, so a 3rd visit is probably not necessary, assuming those forms haven't been half arsed filled in.
 
My solicitor told me to meet him at a Starbucks on a main roundabout half way between his office and my town

I turned up and parked beside his car as described. No sight of any besuited legal eagles

no sign of him in the Starbucks

I go outside and message him and he says he’ll meet by the car (which is full of scruffy piles of documents and what looks like a chicken coop

a cross between Catweazel and Che Guevara wander over and says hello

Dirty nails, smells, definitely unwashed....my crack solicitor.....

he whips out documents and I sign them and he fucks off.

I drive home wondering what the fuck that was about and decide to sanity check my morning by popping into the local branch of the solicitors...they confirm he is who he says he is and confirm that zoom meetings with him can be “slightly less than professional looking” with chickens wandering in

seems he is kept down south in deepest darkest Cornwall where his eccentricity has less impact

anyways all legit and it’s back with the lenders to release the funds and I transfer my cash..... hopefully nothing can go wrong at this final step...
 
My gut feeling is the agent is fed up of this sale not being completed and will say to the seller these two things:

You’re still getting 100k which is probably a big psychological number
If you keep losing buyers like this it will make it a far harder sell in future particularly as they’ve gutted it

Good luck and keep positive
 
Going by that, is it a bit of a gamble asking to drop to £95,000? My thinking is they will either accept it (hopefully), offer to meet in the middle (also ok), or just say no. In which case the whole saga continues for them. Do they still have to pay council tax and things while the property is theirs?
Yes (even with Kirsty and Phil to help you with the nation watching on) it is always a gamble buying a property.

Sorry, did I miss who the freeholders are? If someone other than the local authority there might well be a maintenance/contingency fund which has
been built up to help with the cost of major works. The soliicitor should know this.
 
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