Buying a home and don't know how anything works
- Thread starter miss direct
- Start date
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
That is fairly typical of council leasehold service charges in London tbh. Before I was in Newham I was in Hackney, and it was around the same (adjusting for inflation it may actually have been a lot more expensive, £800 a year when I first moved there in 1995 - but this is what I mean by fairly stable, it doesn't tend to massively increase each year).
It tends to be around the same amount annually as the council tax (for the sort of council tax band that an ex-council flat is going to be in)
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Depends how much it covers. If it includes any decent communal outside space then under £100 per month for maintenance of that, plus the stairs, lift, hallways etc, is not crazy.
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Yeah this, I think my service charge is reasonable for what it provides in terms of upkeep of the housing estate and cleaning of communal areas and hasn't increased too much over the years. In somewhere with little to no communal space, it could well be a lot lower of course and 1.1k would seem horrific.
20Bees
Well-Known Member
I’d suggest it’s an absolute priority after you’ve completed the purchase. And carbon monoxide detectors are about £15 online or from DIY/homeware stores, small and unobtrusive, batteries last for years.
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
This, even if the vendor had it checked, you'd still for your own peace of mind want your own check done soon after (and a CO alarm is a good idea in a flat anyway), so I don't get the fuss about demanding the vendors do it. And as I already said, if the boiler is more than 10 years old it is fairly safe to assume you will be having to replace it within the next 5-10 years, so insisting on having the vendors check it or you'll pull out as other posters have suggested just seems weird.
If the boiler was brand new, they'd have said so and provided evidence for that, they haven't, so assume that will be an expense at some point in the next 10 years - it isn't make or break in the grand scheme of things. Just get it serviced asap to make sure the flue is clear and stick a CO alarm up regardless (which you should do anyway).
mauvais
on reddit or something
When a property is rented out to people there's a legal obligation to do annual gas safety checks, but when it's owner-occupied there is no such requirement. I tend to get one done regardless because it seems like a sensible thing to do, and you should get boilers serviced periodically anyway just like any other machinery.
cybershot
Well-Known Member
Agree with others that the physical boiler is the least of your worries at the moment. Get it serviced yourself when you’re in for your own peace of mind. It’s something again that every 10-15 years you’re going to have to replace anyway and should build rainy day funds up for. It’s just a bummer if it has to be done right away. One of the many joys and expenses of home ownership is shit going wrong when you least want it too.
This property I moved in the boiler was serviced before i moved in. It was part of my solicitors requests to see the boiler service history and was something I had to provide for my sale too. So it seems a pretty standard request these days. So despite this one being serviced before I moved in. It works. But it’s 15 years old and does have some kinks. So although not ideal and especially as I forked £2k on a boiler 3 years ago in my old property is a bit of a bummer I will have to do it again so soon. But that’s home ownership for you
(although apparently gas boilers will no longer be sold after 2025, so you may want to replace it sooner than later to avoid costly early conversion or hope there’s some nice govt grants to be an early adopter. I have same gamble but that’s a conversation for a whole other thread and I think there is one)
the same could be said for the major works. Although a concern as it’s an extra cost at the offset. This stuff comes along anyway and is part and parcel of owning a leasehold in a flat. If you go back to the very start of this thread, and I’m not meaning to sound like a twat but literally every reply is ‘don’t leasehold, get freehold’ you’re now finding out all the reasons why but at least you’re finding them out BEFORE you’ve committed. At least a council leasehold is probably more generous than a privately owned block of flats one.
If you really really want this flat. You kind of need to accept these major works will happen every so often and it’s gonna hit your pocket. Although buying a freehold doesn’t mean the same thing doesn’t happen. This is why we all continue to put away savings to ensure when this shit comes along we can afford to get it done. In some ways it’s nice to know you’ll have a shiny new roof. Rather than waking up one morning in your new house to water gushing in via a storm and having to contact your insurer and then dealing with the nightmare aftermath. Swings and roundabouts.
the sellers will probably argue the same and say fuck off when it comes to reducing the cost because of the major works. It’s just unfortunate timing for them as it makes it difficult to sell and they clearly would like to sell before they have to pay it themselves. So you might be able to meet in the middle especially if you mention about carpets and stuff which was again a really weird thing to do regardless of the condition. If they posted on here they would probably have started a thread called selling a house and don’t know what to do because they clearly don’t and have done some odd stuff throughout this.
there was a lot of negative chat on here last night as I think we all emotionally have got a bit involved too and rooting for you but hopefully after a good nights sleep we all need to just be realistic.
1. am I already getting a good price, regardless the potential of major works and a boiler replacement and what other else I find after I’ve moved in. That are actually just standard running costs of owning a property. Just shit it may all come at once. But that’s life. Shit happens.
2. Do I want to be a leaseholder. Major works are a cost I’m going to have to swallow regardless of now or in the future. Do I want to pay them, in reality are they any different to when for eg a roof needs replacing on a freehold house. It’s money I will have to find.
3. Read everything you’ve been send this weekend. And read it again. If still unclear ask here.
4. anything unclear or need clarification about. On Monday speak to solicitor, council, estate agent and get answers that settle your mind.
I bet you’ve been worrying all night and had a terrible nights sleep.
This property I moved in the boiler was serviced before i moved in. It was part of my solicitors requests to see the boiler service history and was something I had to provide for my sale too. So it seems a pretty standard request these days. So despite this one being serviced before I moved in. It works. But it’s 15 years old and does have some kinks. So although not ideal and especially as I forked £2k on a boiler 3 years ago in my old property is a bit of a bummer I will have to do it again so soon. But that’s home ownership for you
(although apparently gas boilers will no longer be sold after 2025, so you may want to replace it sooner than later to avoid costly early conversion or hope there’s some nice govt grants to be an early adopter. I have same gamble but that’s a conversation for a whole other thread and I think there is one)
the same could be said for the major works. Although a concern as it’s an extra cost at the offset. This stuff comes along anyway and is part and parcel of owning a leasehold in a flat. If you go back to the very start of this thread, and I’m not meaning to sound like a twat but literally every reply is ‘don’t leasehold, get freehold’ you’re now finding out all the reasons why but at least you’re finding them out BEFORE you’ve committed. At least a council leasehold is probably more generous than a privately owned block of flats one.
If you really really want this flat. You kind of need to accept these major works will happen every so often and it’s gonna hit your pocket. Although buying a freehold doesn’t mean the same thing doesn’t happen. This is why we all continue to put away savings to ensure when this shit comes along we can afford to get it done. In some ways it’s nice to know you’ll have a shiny new roof. Rather than waking up one morning in your new house to water gushing in via a storm and having to contact your insurer and then dealing with the nightmare aftermath. Swings and roundabouts.
the sellers will probably argue the same and say fuck off when it comes to reducing the cost because of the major works. It’s just unfortunate timing for them as it makes it difficult to sell and they clearly would like to sell before they have to pay it themselves. So you might be able to meet in the middle especially if you mention about carpets and stuff which was again a really weird thing to do regardless of the condition. If they posted on here they would probably have started a thread called selling a house and don’t know what to do because they clearly don’t and have done some odd stuff throughout this.
there was a lot of negative chat on here last night as I think we all emotionally have got a bit involved too and rooting for you but hopefully after a good nights sleep we all need to just be realistic.
1. am I already getting a good price, regardless the potential of major works and a boiler replacement and what other else I find after I’ve moved in. That are actually just standard running costs of owning a property. Just shit it may all come at once. But that’s life. Shit happens.
2. Do I want to be a leaseholder. Major works are a cost I’m going to have to swallow regardless of now or in the future. Do I want to pay them, in reality are they any different to when for eg a roof needs replacing on a freehold house. It’s money I will have to find.
3. Read everything you’ve been send this weekend. And read it again. If still unclear ask here.
4. anything unclear or need clarification about. On Monday speak to solicitor, council, estate agent and get answers that settle your mind.
I bet you’ve been worrying all night and had a terrible nights sleep.
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Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
In 8 years of owning a freehold housep I had the following maintenance / improvement spends - all figures approximate. I read that the amount you need to spend on property averages out at 1% of property value per year although there are some years when you may spend nothing, and some when you spend a lot.
£2.5k on roof - water leaking through decayed limestone things. Replaced with lead and other roofing jobs while they were up there
£500 new consumer unit and extractor fan. Previous one used fuse wire.
£3k new boiler, upgraded radiators and valves, some other stuff.
£1.5k. Various landscaping on garden to make it into a space I wanted to be in.
Some spends were urgent, for example the roof as it was damaging the house with water leaking through. Arguably my mid 80s Potterton Netaheat boiler could have gone on for a few more years as there was nothing wrong with it according to my gas engineer but it was terribly inefficient as you would expect.
I guess my point is you’re never insulated from building improvements / refurbishments / replacements if you own a property, and usually spending the money is in your best interests. It also tackles things which can eliminate potential buyers if you choose to sell.
£2.5k on roof - water leaking through decayed limestone things. Replaced with lead and other roofing jobs while they were up there
£500 new consumer unit and extractor fan. Previous one used fuse wire.
£3k new boiler, upgraded radiators and valves, some other stuff.
£1.5k. Various landscaping on garden to make it into a space I wanted to be in.
Some spends were urgent, for example the roof as it was damaging the house with water leaking through. Arguably my mid 80s Potterton Netaheat boiler could have gone on for a few more years as there was nothing wrong with it according to my gas engineer but it was terribly inefficient as you would expect.
I guess my point is you’re never insulated from building improvements / refurbishments / replacements if you own a property, and usually spending the money is in your best interests. It also tackles things which can eliminate potential buyers if you choose to sell.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
The day after we moved into our current house we discovered that the bloke who's name was on the comprehensive service history of our boiler had, in fact, never been to the house...
It eventually transpired that the former owners son had just used the name of a local plumber and done - or not done - the work himself after a couple of YouTube videos.
We bought a new boiler the day after. Such are the joys of being responsible for shit....
It eventually transpired that the former owners son had just used the name of a local plumber and done - or not done - the work himself after a couple of YouTube videos.
We bought a new boiler the day after. Such are the joys of being responsible for shit....
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
When we were buying our place the (very nice) vendors told us the porch was dodgy, we should get the survey to look at it specifically and that they wouldn’t knock the price down for that as it was priced in.
The survey said it was fine and we bought the house.
After exchange but before completion the porch fell down, triggering a 4 year row with the insurance company (we won in the end).
The survey said it was fine and we bought the house.
After exchange but before completion the porch fell down, triggering a 4 year row with the insurance company (we won in the end).
20Bees
Well-Known Member
My oil-fired boiler is 35 years old and all good things must come to an end, but until then, my wonderful boiler man services it yearly, he always attends within 24 hours of a call and usually the same day, and he doesn’t suggest replacing anything that can be repaired. When it finally defeats him he will fit a new one. A modern boiler will be more efficient, but spending £000s in the quest for greater efficiency would still leave me out of pocket. And a modern boiler is expected to last only 5-15 years. Like white goods now, nothing is built to last.
Eeh, it were different when I were a lass...
Eeh, it were different when I were a lass...
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
indeed
my gas boiler must be 20+ years old (it wasn't new when i moved in, although it's not as old as the flat, which was built with warm air central heating)
it gets serviced about every year - needed a new fan unit a year or two ago, but advice from the people that service it is keep it as anything newer won't be as good.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I've spoken to gas engineers at services about when they would recommend replacement, and they've always said replace when they can no longer get spare parts.
miss direct
misfungled
Having a bit of a break from thinking about this over the weekend, but as of tomorrow morning, I will be calling
a) the boiler company
b) the council to try and get a vague idea of cost
c) estate agent to express my feelings and negotiate price (will prepare notes for this)
At what stage do I need to communicate any of this to my solicitor?
a) the boiler company
b) the council to try and get a vague idea of cost
c) estate agent to express my feelings and negotiate price (will prepare notes for this)
At what stage do I need to communicate any of this to my solicitor?
miss direct
misfungled
Well, Monday morning. I rang the boiler company, and understandably they couldn't give me any direct information but due to my questioning style (must be the former journalist in me), I deduce that the current owners defaulted on their payments for the boiler, which is why there hasn't been any annual service. Any outstanding fees will not be my responsibility. Boiler was installed in 2013, so probably not got too long left anyway.
Council weren't very helpful, but told me to call back tomorrow morning when the person dealing with this will be in.
Not sure I can do much else today. Panicking myself a bit by looking up stories like this:
www.mkfm.com
Does anyone know how I can get an idea of the cost of a roof? At least a vague figure?
Council weren't very helpful, but told me to call back tomorrow morning when the person dealing with this will be in.
Not sure I can do much else today. Panicking myself a bit by looking up stories like this:
Council leaseholders in Milton Keynes on tenterhooks over £10,000 roof repair bills
Leaseholders living in council-owned flats in Stony Stratford are on tenterhooks over potentially huge bills for roof repairs.
www.mkfm.com
Does anyone know how I can get an idea of the cost of a roof? At least a vague figure?
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cybershot
Well-Known Member
Is there absolutely nothing in the info you have? Surely the vendors know this info as they would have been consulted. Probably one to ask the solicitor.Well, Monday morning. I rang the boiler company, and understandably they couldn't give me any direct information but due to my questioning style (must be the former journalist in me), I deduce that the current owners defaulted on their payments for the boiler, which is why there hasn't been any annual service. Any outstanding fees will not be responsibility. Boiler was installed in 2013, so probably not got too long left anyway.
Council weren't very helpful, but told me to call back tomorrow morning when the person dealing with this will be in.
Not sure I can do much else today. Panicking myself a bit by looking up stories like this:
Council leaseholders in Milton Keynes on tenterhooks over £10,000 roof repair bills
Leaseholders living in council-owned flats in Stony Stratford are on tenterhooks over potentially huge bills for roof repairs.
Does anyone know how I can get an idea of the cost of a roof? At least a vague figure?
cybershot
Well-Known Member
Also re the boiler, if the company have put a charge on the property because the vendors are defaulting, then they will be requesting that money from the sale. Again, speak to solictior to get an idea of what kind of delay if any this is likely to cause if the vendors intend to contest it.
miss direct
misfungled
cybershot there is just a letter about the works and the tender process, saying an estimated price will come later. Apparently that hasn't come yet. Solicitor's letter to me says much the same.
And re the boiler, yes, apparently this "restriction" (?) will be discharged on completion. I am guessing the heating works ok. It was a cold winter, there was an elderly parent living there, and the place was boiling when I viewed in February (I didn't check to see if radiators were on, it was so sunny). So I think I don't need to worry too much about the boiler.
And re the boiler, yes, apparently this "restriction" (?) will be discharged on completion. I am guessing the heating works ok. It was a cold winter, there was an elderly parent living there, and the place was boiling when I viewed in February (I didn't check to see if radiators were on, it was so sunny). So I think I don't need to worry too much about the boiler.
cybershot
Well-Known Member
OK. Makes sense, as you won't get invoiced until after the works takes place. Like the milton keynes ones above it would be worth finding out if the council intend to put a 'maximum charge' on the works, so you can at least plan for the worst case scenario, and if the work hasn't took place, it will probably be well over 12 months before you even get an invoice, with 28 days to pay, and that point you arrange to pay flexibly to the council.
The estate agent might be useful re roofing costs. Do they do managed lets? It's possible they may be managing similar property and will have an idea what their landlords are being charged or have been charged in the past. Although remember estate agent wants this sale to get their money, so may sugar coat the info.
The estate agent might be useful re roofing costs. Do they do managed lets? It's possible they may be managing similar property and will have an idea what their landlords are being charged or have been charged in the past. Although remember estate agent wants this sale to get their money, so may sugar coat the info.
miss direct
misfungled
Good stuff. I will ask about that when I speak to the woman at the council tomorrow. Once I have as much information as I can get, I will speak to the estate agent.
I'm curious about why the sellers moved out of the property so soon as they are clearly struggling.
I'm curious about why the sellers moved out of the property so soon as they are clearly struggling.
cybershot
Well-Known Member
For info, again not trying to start a convo of leasehold vs freehold etc, and Im sure stuff in the press makes it out to be worse than it actually, this is also an old article and things may have changed, but food for thought and may help you think of more questions to ask. Such as if I was going for a mortgage, would a bank even have approved this? Possibly the reason why the two (was it two) previous people had to pull out at early stage.
www.theguardian.com
www.theguardian.com
When sky-high repair bills can make right to buy the wrong choice
Former local authority tenants who bought their properties for as little as £44,000 are facing demands of up to £50,000, which they can’t afford to pay
Leaseholders facing 'staggering' bills for ex-council flats
Right-to-buy owners are up in arms after being charged £24k for a new communal heating system
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bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
Talked to solicitor today. He wants to meet up halfway and sign the mortgage shit tomorrow
Two days to deadline of 16 I’m shitting it
just spent a couple of hours in it today with my neighbour who did the electrical testing in it, it’s a pass with advisories which are a cheapish fix
I’m in fucking love... with a building, and its residential sea pigeons
Takes me back to student days living in creaking old but very spacious Victorian houses/flats
I want to just fecking move into it immediately
it’s got some work to make it 100% and is probably a major project in the future to bring it up to absolute perfection (in my mind)
needs sound up
Two days to deadline of 16 I’m shitting it
just spent a couple of hours in it today with my neighbour who did the electrical testing in it, it’s a pass with advisories which are a cheapish fix
I’m in fucking love... with a building, and its residential sea pigeons
Takes me back to student days living in creaking old but very spacious Victorian houses/flats
I want to just fecking move into it immediately
it’s got some work to make it 100% and is probably a major project in the future to bring it up to absolute perfection (in my mind)
needs sound up
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miss direct
misfungled
Wondering if I am being really stupid to buy this place and whether I should pull out completely.
If I pull out now, I lose:
solicitors fees, search fees, survey fees = bit less than £2,000
plus minimum (at a guess) 6 more months of renting - and I can't go on sharing, so let's say £3600 just for rent, assuming I could find anywhere for £600/month and anyone would even rent to me without a steady income. Plus moving costs and all the faff that comes with moving in etc. Plus going through the stress and hassle of trying to find somewhere else to buy :/ Ah FFS.
If I pull out now, I lose:
solicitors fees, search fees, survey fees = bit less than £2,000
plus minimum (at a guess) 6 more months of renting - and I can't go on sharing, so let's say £3600 just for rent, assuming I could find anywhere for £600/month and anyone would even rent to me without a steady income. Plus moving costs and all the faff that comes with moving in etc. Plus going through the stress and hassle of trying to find somewhere else to buy :/ Ah FFS.
baldrick
hmmmmm
I know you wanted to complete asap but if there's a possibility you can find out an estimate of the costs if you waited that would be ok wouldn't it.
I think it would be fine to say you won't complete without that information, it's totally reasonable to not go ahead until you know how much the flat will cost in repairs. I know this is throwing doubts in your head but you were happy with it all until this issue came up.
I think it would be fine to say you won't complete without that information, it's totally reasonable to not go ahead until you know how much the flat will cost in repairs. I know this is throwing doubts in your head but you were happy with it all until this issue came up.
miss direct
misfungled
Yes, I could wait a bit. Doesn't seem like my current room is being advertised yet (at least not on the website I found it on) so I may be able to extend by a week or two, or maybe more. If not, I will put my stuff into storage and rent a room or get a short term air bnb or something. Already looked a few up.
Hopefully the council lady can give me something to go on tomorrow, but I have a sneaking suspicion that nobody has any idea of the cost (the person I spoke today just said it would be "in the thousands", which I already knew. All I have to go on is googling horror stories.
Hopefully the council lady can give me something to go on tomorrow, but I have a sneaking suspicion that nobody has any idea of the cost (the person I spoke today just said it would be "in the thousands", which I already knew. All I have to go on is googling horror stories.
cybershot
Well-Known Member
£7500ish (short term - current fees, next lot of fees if start again, rent) vs £10,000+ (long term, as the roof won't be the only 'major works')
Only you know which is the best choice for you money wise.
miss direct
misfungled
Ah yes, but I am hoping they will give me this discount I will ask about tomorrow. What other sort of major works could there be?
I just want somewhere to live without strangers
I just want somewhere to live without strangers
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
I think it’s worth waiting until you know what the cost may be, and also to research - what else is on the market if you did pull out.
you’ve mentioned you often miss calls due to teaching students. Could you block out one consistent hour a day during office hours which you could use for chasing up solicitor / council / agent?
you’ve mentioned you often miss calls due to teaching students. Could you block out one consistent hour a day during office hours which you could use for chasing up solicitor / council / agent?
