burma - potential uprising?
- Thread starter fela fan
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winterinmoscow
Returning Poster
two petitions for Burma here - also put in actions forum
"UN must act ,Call for action on Myanmar Military Government ,Now !!!!" hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/kha8954b/
An appeal to the UN Security Council to protect the people of Burma" hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/9848/
"UN must act ,Call for action on Myanmar Military Government ,Now !!!!" hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/kha8954b/
An appeal to the UN Security Council to protect the people of Burma" hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/9848/
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Mizzima is always my first stop for Burma news, and during today's heavy traffic it had fewer problems than The Irrawaddy. The International Press Institute named Mizzima 'Free Media Pioneer' for 2007. Irrawaddy is based in Thailand, Mizzima in India.Barking_Mad said:
All Burma press clippings are collected on www.burmanet.org (seems to be down at the moment.)
And there's DVB of course, which does an excellent weekly television news (in Burmese though)
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Thanks WiM.
They're getting sigs at an OK rate - 1 or 2/minute at a guesstimate.
One is from a bunch of UN Human Rights staff, the other is the People and friends of Burma (no official org name). The UN one is heading to 6k, the peoples to 1500 at the mo.
They're getting sigs at an OK rate - 1 or 2/minute at a guesstimate.
One is from a bunch of UN Human Rights staff, the other is the People and friends of Burma (no official org name). The UN one is heading to 6k, the peoples to 1500 at the mo.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
India's 'response'
Well, that was worth waiting for
Wonder what tomorrow's going to bring. I doubt the protests will be similar to today's in size; wouldn't be surprised if the monks find themselves penned in in their monasteries (of which there are hundreds in Yangon, but they're concentrated in particular areas.)
Broader questions will soon come to the fore. How will the regime respond to this blow to their legitimacy? The past few years they've boasted about their own 'roadmap to democracy', with the whole country behind the National Convention sessions for a new constitution. Now the whole world knows that this is a lie, and that the junta's claimed legitimacy is a sham.
When the UN special envoy Gambari arrives what concessions will they make, if any? Will they even let him in? What will he ask of them? They've given him the run-around before and he's been woefully careless in his work, giving them the opportunity to use him in jokey photo ops.
Most of all, after the smoke clears, how long will the world hold its gaze on Burma?
Well, that was worth waiting for
Wonder what tomorrow's going to bring. I doubt the protests will be similar to today's in size; wouldn't be surprised if the monks find themselves penned in in their monasteries (of which there are hundreds in Yangon, but they're concentrated in particular areas.)
Broader questions will soon come to the fore. How will the regime respond to this blow to their legitimacy? The past few years they've boasted about their own 'roadmap to democracy', with the whole country behind the National Convention sessions for a new constitution. Now the whole world knows that this is a lie, and that the junta's claimed legitimacy is a sham.
When the UN special envoy Gambari arrives what concessions will they make, if any? Will they even let him in? What will he ask of them? They've given him the run-around before and he's been woefully careless in his work, giving them the opportunity to use him in jokey photo ops.
Most of all, after the smoke clears, how long will the world hold its gaze on Burma?
Those pictures tell the story, language is not so easy to use right now. I could use plenty of swear words and words like 'disgusting', 'outrage', but they don't really convey things accurately. The best i think i can do is to say that when i sit and think about what is going on, again, the inside of me feels like a few tonnes of twisted metal, and that through the fuel of injustice, this mass of metal wants to explode with very great noise. But it cannot explode, and therefore it remains twisted and inside of me.
Of course i can stop thinking about it, and the metal goes.
But i just cannot fathom why human beings allow these fucking thugs to smash monks and ordinary people in their heads with the rifle butts, to stamp on them while on the ground, and to fire bullets into their flesh. I can't understand the humans doing this violence, and i can't understand the thugs who order this violence.
But the worst of the lot is that we, the world, sit by and mouth off words. Where's the bloody action??
Of course i can stop thinking about it, and the metal goes.
But i just cannot fathom why human beings allow these fucking thugs to smash monks and ordinary people in their heads with the rifle butts, to stamp on them while on the ground, and to fire bullets into their flesh. I can't understand the humans doing this violence, and i can't understand the thugs who order this violence.
But the worst of the lot is that we, the world, sit by and mouth off words. Where's the bloody action??
Look at this bullshit for example.
"Undoubtedly, the developments over the last few weeks in Myanmar have raised serious concerns in the international community and once again underscore the urgency to step up our efforts to find solutions to the challenges facing the country," the Secretary-General's Special Envoy for Myanmar, Ibrahim Gambari, briefed the Security Council in informal consultations on Sep, 20, 2007.
"Undoubtedly, the developments over the last few weeks in Myanmar have raised serious concerns in the international community and once again underscore the urgency to step up our efforts to find solutions to the challenges facing the country," the Secretary-General's Special Envoy for Myanmar, Ibrahim Gambari, briefed the Security Council in informal consultations on Sep, 20, 2007.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
They'll be tortured and may well die as a result, but the junta have plenty of prison space and like to keep them locked up as examples. Who knows if they'll change 'tactic' though eh?fela fan said:
The crackdown sounds horribly brutal today. Many monastaries raided overnight, the military gearing up to use insect killer on protesters.
My source tells me that three people have been shot dead today including a foreigner. UN humanitarian aid trucks are reported to have blocked in the army trucks.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
From France, they say. But it's complete chaos atm, nothing can be confirmedymu said:
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Then that could be very significant - anyone speak French well enough? We need their papers kicking up one almighty stink. It's powerful - foreigners in Palestine set a lot of legal precedents in Israel - it's why they go; Palestine only has the UN but we have our governments.purves grundy said:From France, they say. But it's complete chaos atm, nothing can be confirmed
Need to get on this soon as - Calva Dosser, where are you?
EDIT: I popped him a PM. I have to head out shortly, but confirmation and getting a huge immediate public response from the French (or other relevant) people asap is important. I hope to buggery it is a westerner from a country not hostile to China; AFAIK France is a good 'un. Sorry if that sounds callous; but it matters and it might save some lives.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Seems to have got through to Irrawaddy too.
Also, Swann Arr Shin paramilitaries are rumoured to have dressed up as monks and received orders to smash up mosques to trigger inter-religious fighting.
Irrawaddy said:
Also, Swann Arr Shin paramilitaries are rumoured to have dressed up as monks and received orders to smash up mosques to trigger inter-religious fighting.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
One of the monastaries raided last night.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Buddha images smashed by the army and police.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
*wipes tears from eyes*
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Fucking hell. That's Rangoon's major downtown hotel.Irrawaddy said:
The foreigner shot earlier is possibly a journalist. Looks like a plan, rather than any sort of accident.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Now shooting at a school. Some parents of kids shot.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
I was thinking, for what it's worth, about a petition of some sort on the government website as I cant see one as yet. Any ideas as to what though? If solutions rest to a large degree with China then something to do with the Olympics might be an idea.........
dunno, just feel useless sat here like a voyeur.............
edit: there is just one although it's a bit vague: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SupportBurmese/
dunno, just feel useless sat here like a voyeur.............
edit: there is just one although it's a bit vague: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SupportBurmese/
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
India High Commission & Consulates in United Kingdom
High Commission of India London
India House, Aldwych
London WC2B 4 NA
Ph: +44 71 836 8484
Fax: +44 71 836 4331
Email: [email protected]
Press & Information: [email protected]
Consulate General of India Birmingham
20, Augusta Street, Jewellery Quarters
Hockley, Birmingham B18 6JL
Ph: +44 21 212 2782/83
Fax: +44 21 212 2786
Email: [email protected]
High Commission of India London
India House, Aldwych
London WC2B 4 NA
Ph: +44 71 836 8484
Fax: +44 71 836 4331
Email: [email protected]
Press & Information: [email protected]
Consulate General of India Birmingham
20, Augusta Street, Jewellery Quarters
Hockley, Birmingham B18 6JL
Ph: +44 21 212 2782/83
Fax: +44 21 212 2786
Email: [email protected]
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Reuters reporting the person shot dead was a Japanese photographer.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
ShiteBarking_Mad said:
That might steel Japan's resolve to do something more decisive. They're a fairly significant partner of the regime too.
I know what you mean about feeling out of it. Petitions, pleas to ambassadors, and fucking up those who assist the military are about all we can do from here.
dennisr
the acceptable face
fela fan said:
Thanks for all contributions here - especially the likes of Purves and the news links
This may not be the most appropriate thread for me to re-raise this question - updates on news and information are more important obviously - but... - I wondered what you meant here fela? (and the other person who backed the view up with accusations of 'eurocentric' views being imposed on what they see as a completely seperate situation). What do you feel the history of the Burmese people is? (I agree on the need for sensitivity re terminology that has been very much mis-used by the military dictatorship - but use of terminology is not the same as actual history).
This is my very limited reading of the post-war history or Burma - The regime, newly emerged from British domination and where the ruling class was incapable of successfully 'holding the country together',faced a series of rebellions and wars. The army was formed from the 'Anti-Fascist Peoples Freedom League', which described itself as 'socialist'. With China as a model next door (this was just after the Chinese revolutionary movement had resulted in the coming to power of the CP dictatorship there), the army leaders tired of the incapacity of the landowners and capitalists to solve the problems of Burma. Basing themselves on the passive (then....) support of the workers and peasants, they organised a coup, expropriated the landowners and capitalists and established Burma as a "Burmese Buddhist Socialist State". In effect, a bonapartist regime was established that was not (as traditionally the case...) in defense of private ownership, but, given the then balance of world forces, using the control of exopropriated property to create their own power base. You may not like the terminology, but this describes a development of the marxist idea of colonial revolution and the idea of a deformed workers state.
The political situation after the withdraw of the British was - a weak indigenous boss class, the army using language of 'socialism' and the left democratic/nationalist parties using the language of 'socialism' in a completely different way (the leaders of which included the likes of Aung San Suu Kyi's father. The likes of Aung San's father recognised some similarities of condition, of class interests. Was he 'eurocentric'?
Hopefully you can expand on this and correct me where you feel I am wrong
As i said elsewhere, this is how I see the situation today:
Burma has one of the worst records of human rights abuses in the world, including the systematic use of rape and torture, forced labour (including child labour) and violent national oppression (of the Karen and other peoples). While the military absorbs 40% of the state budget, spending on health care is minimal and, in a country that once had the highest literacy rate, education standards have plummeted through lack of government funds.
The level of poverty and hunger means millions of families having no more than one meal a day. Once known as Asia’s rice bowl, Burma cannot sustain its own people. One third of the population are malnourished or physically underdeveloped.
Yet the top twelve military officers who form the junta live in luxury in the newly-built capital city – Naypyidaw - carved out of the jungle, 320 kilometres north of Rangoon. Much of the generals’ income derives from bribery, corruption and drug trafficking, especially of heroin. Anuj Chopra, who writes for the (London) Sunday Telegraph, commented, the new capital “offers a secure bolt-hole should the ongoing protests escalate in Rangoon…They are running away from their own people”.
What is the cause of these differences between the majority of the population and that of the ruling cliche?
I am wondering how UR's perspective is supposed to be eurocentric? how does it not fit the Burmese situation? - because he is using the term 'working class/people' and 'pesants'?
Are there no classes (or at least 'caste') interests involved in the reasons behind this ongoing and further unfolding nightmare for the vast majority of the Burmese people?
Can someone explain to me the why the situation is so 'unique' in Burma?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
NB: this was a reply to the wrong message - I meant the news that it was a journo.purves grundy said:
That makes it an international incident with the media baying for blood. Pray he wasn't freelance.
Get journalists without borders on the case as soon as info is available - might be worth sending a heads up to them now - I'll dig out the website, but as the activist from within on the outside, you might be the best person to liaise with them Purves?
I'll go dig out a contact address.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
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Contact us
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Fax. 33 1 45 23 11 51
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Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
thanks, good stuff. email sentymu said:
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Fight back ffs, use your weaponsBarking_Mad said:
A v important monk killed today, trying to find where I put his name, but he's very senior and respected.
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