burma - potential uprising?

[harpo]

Burma is an isolated country. The silence of the neighbours says as much in dissent as it does support. As you said, major world bodies have already made their position clear. They were quick to do so, near neighbours are still assessing their position but will buckle to the majority view soon (almost..sadly..)..let's hope the place still has the world on their side come the aftermath.

 

[fela fan]

Yes, but that was also the case with most of the Iranian clergy that led the toppling of the Shah - it was all talk of establishing parliamentary deomcracy during the inital protests. The theocracy came afterwards once the Shah was toppled.

It only takes enough people within that movement to want to ride to power on the back of it for it to happen once the critical-mass is there.

Well, in my reading of the situation it just ain't gonna happen, whatever may have happened in iran.

But one thing's for sure, if it did, better to have people with saffron robes receiving food from the people in charge of the country than military sorts with guns and bullets.

 

[fela fan]

Can't see this last point. Do you mean that the working class is a minority? Or what? May be but then the urban masses probably are the key, though certainly they should make links with the farmers and probably I should have said the working people as a whole

'Working class' is not a term in use in this part of the world. In burma you have the generals, those they have paid off, and then just everyone else. There is on class ideology or inter-class injustice going on. Just the vicious thugs vs everyone else.

That's why i said your terminology wasn't appropriate here, and unfortunately reads in a rather insensitive way, considering the history of burmese people.

 

[fela fan]

No-one's suggesting that.

We're hoping for the best outcome for the long-suffering Burmese people whilst being aware that the story ain't over once the regime falls.

No, that's when their story will actually begin. They went from british rule to the vicious generals' rule over 40 years ago. To gain freedom from facing guns and fear will be a beautiful beginning. They are a clever people, and with so much joy around i'm sure they will be able to set up a system of life which suits the burmese people.

Assuming they can rid themselves of these bastards. Why the international community are doing almost fuck all is a continuing disgrace. Especially the anglo-american countries, who were very quick to steam into iraq for their own political purposes. But in the process they showed they could get hold of the leader of a country and bring him down.

Any moment now thousands of people could collapse instantly with the life sucked out of them by showers of bullets. Picture it, you and me and our mates and families peacefully demonstrating, then the soldiers we can see raising their guns and unleashing all those bullets on us, wiping our very lives out. It's the worst kind of human behaviour, but the second worst is standing idly by.

And that is effectively what the international community is doing. Nobody has ever helped the burmese people except the english language press in thailand in the 1990s. For some reason they are to be left at the mercy of the thugs who hijacked the country.

 

[ymu]

'Working class' is not a term in use in this part of the world. In burma you have the generals, those they have paid off, and then just everyone else. There is on class ideology or inter-class injustice going on. Just the vicious thugs vs everyone else.

That's why i said your terminology wasn't appropriate here, and unfortunately reads in a rather insensitive way, considering the history of burmese people.

Well said fela!

On your points about the international response - what response do we want from those powers that don't have any influence on Burma (eg not China, India, Russia)? Burma is too insulated to care about what any of them say, and forceful intervention is not an option.

I haven't seen all the statements made by western governments yet, but are any of them using the Olympic leverage as I've seen no mention? Have any of them even publicly appealed to China? We have no way of knowing what is going on behind the scenes of course, but I'm not optimistic.

Can we put pressure on them to threaten state-boycott of the Olympics if China allow a massacre to occur? Or are they too busy protecting their own positions vis-a-vis China? Should we be blogging like mad and firing off letters to all the papers demanding that a state-boycott of the Olympics is threatened should China fail to intervene effectively?

 

[Jessiedog]

Military about to clamp down....

Not looking good.


Armed troops deployed, curfews announced, in Yangon and Mandalay.




Woof

 

[ymu]

OK, so I do silly hours - so I hijacked a mate's blog.

The Burmese People need out support! Call for China to intervene

 

[ymu]

My MP is a toerag. Here's a list of some pertinent questions about Burma in Parliament suggesting MPs that may be willing to submit an Early Day Motion.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?s=burma
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?s=myanmar

 

[fela fan]

Well said fela!

On your points about the international response - what response do we want from those powers that don't have any influence on Burma (eg not China, India, Russia)? Burma is too insulated to care about what any of them say, and forceful intervention is not an option.

I find the burma situation illustrates why there are no constants in politics. I am an ardent critic of US (and often UK) invasions into sovereign states. However, upon their latest one, iraq, they got hold of the president and knocked him out of power. This illustrates they could do the same in burma, and i would not be unhappy were they to do this. Get in there, round up all the generals and free all the political prisoners, and install the democratically elected NLD with suu kyi as prime minister.

I know that is simplistic in many ways, but my point is that the outside world, ie US, can indeed DO something. It could actually do what it always claims it's going to do, go in, liberate a nation and rid them of their dictator. However the reality is that if it ain't in their own interests they do fuck all except bleat on weakly about more sanctions.

In fact it's even easier these days to attack the generals, they made a purpose built new capital and moved themselves and their civil servants out of rangoon and into this gleaming new city within the last year. They are a sitting target!!

 

[fela fan]

Not looking good.


Armed troops deployed, curfews announced, in Yangon and Mandalay.




Woof

No, it's not looking good jessie. For now.

That curfew was from 9pm until 5pm, starting yesterday, and as i type it's late morning in burma. If the monks and people decide to ignore the junta's warning today, then i can't see them withholding fire. This challenge to their self-assigned authority will be far too much for their pathetic egos to bear.

This time will be different to 1988 in that footage of the carnage will be gotten out into the wider world for our consumption. The ineptitude and lack of concern for the burmese plight shown by the leaders of just about the whole of the international community during the last 19 years will suddenly be challenged when us, the normal peoples around the world, will rise up in solidarity with the burmese people at the sight of them being felled by all those bullets. We will demand that our leaders remove those generals from power.

They simply cannot do it alone. The price they will have to pay for their freedom will be x number of their compatriots losing their lives. And if we, the peoples around the world don't pressure our leaders, then they will have done all this in vain yet again, 19 years after the first carnage.

Humanity faces some serious questions of itself.

 

[ymu]

I find the burma situation illustrates why there are no constants in politics. I am an ardent critic of US (and often UK) invasions into sovereign states. However, upon their latest one, iraq, they got hold of the president and knocked him out of power. This illustrates they could do the same in burma, and i would not be unhappy were they to do this. Get in there, round up all the generals and free all the political prisoners, and install the democratically elected NLD with suu kyi as prime minister.

I know that is simplistic in many ways, but my point is that the outside world, ie US, can indeed DO something. It could actually do what it always claims it's going to do, go in, liberate a nation and rid them of their dictator. However the reality is that if it ain't in their own interests they do fuck all except bleat on weakly about more sanctions.

In fact it's even easier these days to attack the generals, they made a purpose built new capital and moved themselves and their civil servants out of rangoon and into this gleaming new city within the last year. They are a sitting target!!

fela - it's horribly simplistic. With the best will in the world, noone is in a position to start a war with China - which is what invading Burma would mean.

 

[ymu]

China Nudges Myanmar on Protests

By CHARLES HUTZLER – 1 hour ago

BEIJING (AP) — China has gently urged Myanmar's military rulers to ease the strife that has seen tens of thousands take to the streets in protest, diplomats said Tuesday, even as Beijing said publicly it would stick to a hands-off approach toward its neighbor.

China has quietly shifted gears, the diplomats said, jettisoning its noninterventionist line for behind-the-scenes diplomacy. A senior Chinese official asked junta envoys this month to reconcile with opposition democratic forces. And China arranged a low-key meeting in Beijing between Myanmar and State Department envoys to discuss the release of the leading opposition figure.

Continued...http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gq_WOepLlpar36diwxJDRPSnIkyA

 

[ymu]

http://www.dreamfordarfur.org/

The Olympic campaign for Darfur - it's getting good coverage in the media, seems like a good model for us? Possibly a parallel campaign as they ought to complement each other? This is a sample from their newswire ... the groundwork is already done.

NOT TIME TO EASE UP ON CHINA | NOT A BOYCOTT
Tell Steven Spielberg to Help Darfur -- Not China's PR Campaign
Take Action Now: Ask Mr. Spielberg to Suspend Olympic Role Until There's Security in Darfur

Press Release: Symbolic Olympic Torch Relay in Armenia to Urge China to Lead on Darfur Before Beijing Olympics
The Archbishop of Canterbury and others light symbolic Olympic torch to call on international community – especially China, the next Olympic host – to ensure security for Darfur. Read the Press Release or View images from the torch lighting

Media Advisory: Olympic Torch Relay in Armenia to Urge China to lead on Darfur before Olympics
Less than one year before the much-anticipated Beijing Olympic Games begin, the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, His Holiness Karekin II, Catholicos of All Armenians, and prominent human rights activists pointedly connected the government of China to the first genocide of the 21st century in a torch lighting ceremony at a site commemorating the first genocide of the 20th century. Read more

Media Advisory: Armenians Join the Call for End to Genocide in Darfur
Dream for Darfur will host a symbolic Olympic Torch lighting at Genocide Memorial site in Yerevan on September 25. The torch will be lit from the eternal flame and passed among survivors of genocide and other Darfur advocates. Read more

NGO Stages Olympics Campaign to Help End Darfur Genocide- Voice of America, September 12
"The newly formed Olympic Dream for Darfur campaign questions how China can uphold its international image as Olympics host, while extending political cover and economic support to help Sudan finance militia attacks against thousands of its own citizens." Read More

Stop China from enabling mass murder in Darfur - Daily News, September 9, 2007
"Now is the time to put pressure on China to help end the genocide in Sudan. Anybody can get involved - and it sure beats wringing your hands." Read more

Press Release: Genocide survivors, Darfur advocates launch symbolic Olympic torch relay in New York, September 9, 2007
Genocide survivors from Darfur, Armenia, the Holocaust, Cambodia, and Rwanda today joined Darfur advocates to launch the Olympic Dream for Darfur symbolic Torch Relay. Read More

 

[ymu]

Riot police 'beat' Burmese monks
BBC graphic
Riot police have used batons to beat back protesters including monks at the Rangoon pagoda used as a rallying-point for marchers, eyewitnesses say.

They baton-charged a crowd of civilians and monks outside the Shwedagon Pagoda as demonstrators readied for a ninth day of protest marches.

Police and troops have been ringing Buddhist monasteries in the city.

Analysts fear a repeat of the violence in 1988, when troops opened fire on unarmed protestors, killing thousands.

In a further sign that the military authorities are cracking down, two key dissidents were arrested.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7013638.stm

 

[fela fan]

fela - it's horribly simplistic. With the best will in the world, noone is in a position to start a war with China - which is what invading Burma would mean.

It is mate, and i was really just having an optimistic moment! I also know it won't happen, and in my head can't agree with it. But in my heart, in the whole political world, burma has more resonance with me than anything else, by virtue of following their plight for so long. It also helped in my own life back in the early 90s by making me realise that any problems i might have in this world paled into insignificance compared to the REAL problems and REAL suffering i see so close to me. I vowed back then to recognise my luck, and to enjoy it wherever possible. At the same time i got involved to the little degree i was able in helping burmese people in exile here in thailand with their work against the disgusting regime.

Just thought i'd take the luxury of contextualising my position over this topic!

 

[Barking_Mad]

Reuters saying 5,000 monks and people marching - police have fired tear gas and several demonstrators/monks have been injured. Monks have taken to wearing surgical masks against possible use/use of tear gas.

"There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come" - let's hope this time it has.

 

[purves grundy]

Shots ringing out across the streets. They're beating monks with clubs.

I have a small photo of medical staff tending to wounded monks

 

[ymu]

BBC Breakfast news is reporting the batons and bleeding monks but that they're not stopping the protests (yet).

 

[purves grundy]

Through the eyes of the junta

Root cause of problems is perpetration of internal and external destructionists, who are jealous of national development and stability
Some global powers in collusion with group of destructioninsts from inside the nation inciting disturbances.

Could you get any more Orwellian?

Sad to hear that the wonderful comedian Zarganar has been arrested, as funny and gentle a man as you could wish to meet.

I pray that all my friends are safe but that they find a way to continue the struggle.

 

[Barking_Mad]

NewsNow updates: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?search=burma

 

[purves grundy]

 

[purves grundy]

 

[purves grundy]

Rangoon, Downtown; Mid-afternoon—At least two protestors were shot by security forces in downtown Rangoon near Sule Pagoda on Wednesday afternoon. One protestor reportedly died, according to people who took part in the demonstration. The source said the soldiers continued firing at the demonstrators, who numbered several thousand

.

 

[poster342002]

Well that's up to the Burmese people.

They won't get a say in the matter - just like they don't anywhere else.

Right now, some of the most despicable people in the world busy enriching themselves doing exactly what you've described above and ensuring the proceeds go only to themselves.

Agreed. Let's just hope they don't end up going from one load of rulers who thieve from the nation for themselves to another who do so for the US/UK.

 

[ymu]

They won't get a say in the matter - just like they don't anywhere else.


Agreed. Let's just hope they don't end up going from one load of rulers who thieve from the nation for themselves to another who do so for the US/UK.

Seems kinda likely they'll be doing it for China, if anyone ...

 

[purves grundy]

Agreed. Let's just hope they don't end up going from one load of rulers who thieve from the nation for themselves to another who do so for the US/UK.

They won't.

11 shot, one dead.

 

[ymu]

fuck

 

[poster342002]

Christ.

 

[Barking_Mad]

BBC yet to make any comment, as far as I can see, on it's website about people being shot.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Irrawaddy reporting,

Ahlone Township, Rangoon; Afternoon—Three monks were reportedly shot by military and riot forces on Wednesday afternoon in Ahlone Township, a section of Rangoon, a witness told The Irrawaddy. The witness said rumors claimed all three monks later died. He said the wounded monks were carried away by fellow monks.

Rangoon, Downtown; Mid-afternoon—Two monks and one nun were reportedly shot by military forces near Sule Pagoda on Wednesday afternoon, according to a witness. Another source told The Irrawaddy earlier that one of the injured died, but the report can not be confirmed. A witness said tens of thousands of people have joined monks who are marching across the downtown area today.