burma - potential uprising?

[Barking_Mad]

Desmond Tutu....

THE mass protests in Burma are an echo of the campaign against apartheid in South Africa and will inevitably topple the ruling junta, Nobel laureate Desmond Tutu said today.

The former archbishop of Cape Town, who won the 1994 peace prize for leading peaceful protests against the all-white regime in his homeland, said the Buddhist monks who had taken to the streets in Burma had shown great courage.

“The courage of the people of Myanmar (Burma) is amazing and now they have been joined by their holy men. It is so like the rolling mass action that eventually toppled apartheid,” Tutu said.

“We admire our brave sisters and brothers in Myanmar and want them to know that we support their peaceful protests to end a vicious rule of oppression and injustice.”

Tutu said the UN and international community should pressure the military rulers in Burma, also known as Myanmar, to engage with all key players in a process which would lead to genuine democracy and the release of fellow Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi, who has spent most of the past 18 years under house arrest.

“God bless all those wonderful brave people. Victory is assured. They are on the winning side, the side of freedom, justice and democracy,” Tutu said.

 

[purves grundy]

The monks and the public would have known from the start that any demonstration would be infiltrated. This 'tactic' of the junta is something familiar to all walks of life, especially since the creation of the USDA (3 million members, so it's claimed, most of whom despise the government though.) It's impossible to guard against this, and will certainly have played a part in discouraging monks in other monastaries from taking part.

As for why the monks haven't done this before, the Buddhist clergy is ruled by an elite council, all handpicked by the junta. They receive cars, free air travel, mobile phones (a real symbol of success, as they cost $1800 in Burma). Mandalay's chief abbot is such a junta man that he receives military-style salutes! How these people can live with themselves I don't know, but Burma is so traditional, teachers and elders so revered that, until now, the rest of the monkhood follows their instructions.

Every day the monks are out collecting food for their monsateries. With recent price rises triggered by the fuel price rise (which, ironically, may have been a result of IMF advice after a team from that organisation visited last year), people have been giving less and less, telling the monks how sorry they are that they cannot give any more. A typical Burmese 'basket of groceries' has gone up by around 30% in the last few weeks. Monks have been going back to the people giving them back the alms they've collected!

Life has always been tough in Burma, but never this tough.

 

[purves grundy]

Pretty much the same way Imams did in Iran before the 1979 toppling of the Shah...

The monks have absolutely no interest in forming a theocratic government, I can promise you.

 

[DrRingDing]

Is it kicking off yet?

 

[ymu]

Well, the IMF are past masters at fucking up economies, so no surprises there. Could be a bit of a nasty shock to them to find out it actually did some good.

 

[fela fan]

Every day the monks are out collecting food for their monsateries. With recent price rises triggered by the fuel price rise (which, ironically, may have been a result of IMF advice after a team from that organisation visited last year), people have been giving less and less, telling the monks how sorry they are that they cannot give any more. A typical Burmese 'basket of groceries' has gone up by around 30% in the last few weeks. Monks have been going back to the people giving them back the alms they've collected!

Life has always been tough in Burma, but never this tough.

Interesting to read mate. I was thinking when i first heard of these fuel protests how often the only thing that can bring down a brutal regime is when food becomes short in supply, ie economical reasons rather than political or ideological. People can live with the fear of brutal leaders, but not with fear of no food!

 

[Barking_Mad]

From the BBC

Several thousand monks and civilians in Burma's main city Rangoon have defied military orders and begun fresh anti-government protests.
Protesters left the revered Shwedagon pagoda, where army trucks were parked, to march through the streets.

Earlier lorries with loudspeakers warned residents that the protests could be "dispersed by military force".

On Monday, there were protests in at least 25 towns, with tens of thousands of people marching in Rangoon.

Eyewitnesses said several military trucks were now parked near Shwedagon pagoda, which has been the focus of the protests.

The BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok says monks - who have been spearheading the protest campaign - have been handing out pictures of Burmese independence hero Aung San, the deceased father of detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

They are also carrying flags, including some bearing the image of a fighting peacock used by students during the 1988 pro-democracy uprising, witnesses told Reuters news agency.

Students are also openly marching on Tuesday, says the BBC Burmese Service, as opposed to simply forming a chain and clapping on Monday.

 

[ymu]

So far, external political factors aside, how does this compare in size and import to 1988?

 

[purves grundy]

So far, external political factors aside, how does this compare in size and import to 1988?

The size of the demonstrations in Rangoon are comparable to 88, but not in other parts of the country. Across the country in other towns and cities, the 88 protests were supposed to number well over a million people, some say several millions.

The spread of the current demonstrations is very important given Burma's ethnic tensions. I read a disappointing remark from one ethnic group spokesperson yesterday saying these protests were about 'Burman versus Burman' and of no interest to the minorities (who, when added together, outnumber Burmese). However, other resistance army leaders and ethnic group leaders have given their support.

The army has a massive presence in retive provinces like Shan State, Rakhine State, Mon State and Chin State and many towns have massive military garrisons. Still, there have been protests out in these places and that's significant, very brave.


Edit: which is why this bolded news is important:

(Burmese Standard time)
2:26 p.m
Rangoon defy junta's threaten

Despite the junta has threatened to take action against protestors, the demonstration in Rangoon drew more crowds with celebrities including singers, writers, movie star joining in the protest. Ethnic nationalities leaders also joined the protest, eyewitnesses said

 

[purves grundy]

Despite this:

Mandalay; noon—Since early this morning soldiers have been taking up positions near Mandalay’s Yadanabon University, according to witnesses. Maj-Gen Khin Zaw, Chairman of Mandalay Division Peace and Development Council, and Commander of Central Command, was escorted by security guards as he inspected the soldiers around Yadanabon University before he continued on to Masoeyein Monastery. In the morning the streets of Mandalay were covered in pamphlets warning citizens not to get involved in the demonstrations. The pamphlets, believed to have been distributed by the authorities, warned that serious consequences awaited those who participated in the protests and said that in the event of violence, “Buddhist people would suffer.”

Still they march

Mandalay, 4:30 p.m.—About 10,000 monks from several monasteries in Mandalay marched in a peaceful protest through the city on Tuesday, reciting the "Metta Sutta" (the Buddha’s words on loving kindness), according to an eyewitness. Thousands of residents joined in the procession when it arrived at Mandalay’s famous market, Zay Cho.

 

[ymu]

Thanks Purves.

My skin is shivering from nape to toe at that. I pray to all that is good in humanity that it happens this time - the external analyses suggest it's a tad all or nothing. I refuse to accept that it won't be all.

Go peeps.

 

[poster342002]

The regime might just try the western method of simply ignoring protest until it runs out of steam and goes home.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Despite this:



Still they march

The Metta Sutta, as referred to in the post.......

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech.
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied.
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in saftey,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living beings there may be;
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be-born,
May all beings be at ease!

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings:
Radiating kindness over the entire world
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

 

[Brainaddict]

Glad to see both the beeb and guardian have made it top story today on their websites. I actually wrote a pissed off email to the guardian the other day cos their coverage had been so shite. Must have worked

 

[ymu]

Good job BA!

The regime might just try the western method of simply ignoring protest until it runs out of steam and goes home.

Unlike the UK, people are turning out daily and in ever greater numbers. There comes a point when the army couldn't reload fast enough to stop them taking over the centres of power by sheer weight of numbers.

*drifts off into dream of simultaneous global uprisings...

 

[purves grundy]

I've just got off the phone to a friend who says she's been sent home from work early in anticipation of a curfew. There are army trucks at major junctions on Rangoon's roads, full of soldiers singing military songs and with loudspeakers blaring out warnings that 'demonstrators will be punished' . However, there's a rumour going round that the military head of Yangon Division has refused to order his soldiers to shoot protesters. If true, that could be very significant.

7pm in Burma now. Will fear of reprisals keep the people off the streets tomorrow? I think it's going to be a pivotal day.

 

[isitme]

I've just got off the phone to a friend who says she's been sent home from work early in anticipation of a curfew. There are army trucks at major junctions on Rangoon's roads, full of soldiers singing military songs and with loudspeakers blaring out warnings that 'demonstrators will be punished' . However, there's a rumour going round that the military head of Yangon Division has refused to order his soldiers to shoot protesters. If true, that could be very significant.

7pm in Burma now. Will fear of reprisals keep the people off the streets tomorrow? I think it's going to be a pivotal day.

That's awful. She must be so scared.

 

[purves grundy]

She is, and yet excited at the same time. Nobody knows what will happen - freedom and a new life, or a bloody crackdown. Terrible.

 

[kyser_soze]

Not surprising - state-created increases in the cost of living is a well known source of revolutionary fervour.

Feels a bit like '89 again...hope it goes the same way...and I'm intrigued by the idea of a BUddhist theocracy too...

 

[fela fan]

Well, i can really only see the downfall of the regime, something i've not been able to see before. I do think it will come at the price of bloodshed however. Those generals are as bad as it comes in humans. What does it for me this time is that it is the monks who've led the way, and the objectives they've announced. Fear has ruled for so many years now, and the stupid generals raised the price of fuel that affects so much in the economy. If they had bothered to study history they'd've known this was a bad move.

If there's one fear greater than being shot to death it's not getting enough food...

 

[Barking_Mad]

*shakes his head at the thought that so few have the power to treat so many so badly*

 

[fela fan]

Not surprising - state-created increases in the cost of living is a well known source of revolutionary fervour.

Feels a bit like '89 again...hope it goes the same way...and I'm intrigued by the idea of a BUddhist theocracy too...

I trust you hope it doesn't go the same way mate! I assume you mean the uprising of 1988, and if you do, then we do not want it to go that way at all. That would mean a few thousand dead and no freedom for the people, and another 19 years of bullshit, rape, mayhem, child slavery, forced army recruitment, and basket case economy in a resource-rich country.

The fuel hike by the idiot generals has succeeded in creating a situation where the level of fear has dropped. It is ironical and somewhat poetic that the stupid generals have instigated their own downfall.

 

[fela fan]

*shakes his head at the thought that so few have the power to treat so many so badly*

Yes indeed. Just as the US with iraq...!

 

[urbanrevolt]

I've never been to Burma or know anyone there but I can imagine it is indeed a time of both extreme fear and excitement.

If the protests continue and the soldiers begin to refuse to follow orders then this could produce a change.

If they massacre the monks then the question is will the people allow this or launch an uprising. It seems from reports that many of the protestors are now explicitly demanding an end to the dictatorship and democratic elections. Is this true?

 

[kyser_soze]

I trust you hope it doesn't go the same way mate! I assume you mean the uprising of 1988, and if you do, then we do not want it to go that way at all. That would mean a few thousand dead and no freedom for the people, and another 19 years of bullshit, rape, mayhem, child slavery, forced army recruitment, and basket case economy in a resource-rich country.

The fuel hike by the idiot generals has succeeded in creating a situation where the level of fear has dropped. It is ironical and somewhat poetic that the stupid generals have instigated their own downfall.

Was referring to EEurope in '89 rather than Burma 88...

it's no real surprise that the fuel hike has caused this - the last genuinely effective protest in the UK was a bunch of Clarkson's getting pissed off about Gordon's duty increase on fuel. I dimly remember a quotation from someone historically famous about there being limits on how much the public will accept certain taxes/types of taxes being levied and how govts should heed it...

 

[isitme]

What are the CPB saying / doing?

 

[fela fan]

What are the CPB saying / doing?

Who are they?

 

[fela fan]

Was referring to EEurope in '89 rather than Burma 88...

it's no real surprise that the fuel hike has caused this - the last genuinely effective protest in the UK was a bunch of Clarkson's getting pissed off about Gordon's duty increase on fuel. I dimly remember a quotation from someone historically famous about there being limits on how much the public will accept certain taxes/types of taxes being levied and how govts should heed it...

Ah, okay.

Yes, history is littered with economical reactions from populations, both in dictatorships and 'democracies'.

Stupid stupid generals. But hopefully that stupidity is their downfall.

 

[kyser_soze]

Who are they?

Methinks he's referring to the Communist Party of Burma...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Been watching this, I've nothing but admiration for the sheer bravery these people are showing.