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burma - potential uprising?

Barking_Mad said:
I take it there is little chance at all that any parts of the military will side with the population and the monks?
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I guess if enough of the rank-and-file troops on the ground did, that would pretty much be it for the regime.
 
They fired into unarmed monks and students in 1988 and killed 3000 when the whole country was protesting, no reason why they wouldn't do it again.
 
purves grundy said:
They fired into unarmed monks and students in 1988 and killed 3000 when the whole country was protesting, no reason why they wouldn't do it again.
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Different economic situation now. Times change and different outcomes ensue.
 
And don't the junta know this! All soldiers and civil servants received massive pay rises a year ago. True, inflation has cancelled out much of this gain, but without a clear lead from a member of the upper ranks, the economic situation means that the soldiers are more likely to follow orders than to question them. Extreme poverty has also made it easier for the government to recruit 'civilians' to infiltrate and break up demonstrations. Some of those demonstrating monks are not really monks at all.

The big difference between then and now which might make a difference is that, despite its relative isolation, Burma is not as go-it-alone as it was in 88. It's in ASEAN, it's financially dependent on Chinese and Indian purchases of oil and gas. If, and it's a big if, these countries could put pressure on Burma to start a move towards meaningful change, the pressure might be too much for some elements of the junta to bear.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
So long as we don't end up with a buddhist theocracy taking over ... this does have a few unfortunate similarities with Iran during the build-up to the collapse of the Shah's regime. A nasty regime ended up being replaced with another nasty regime.
 
purves grundy said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7005974.stm

I wish I were there
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In a strongly-worded statement, seen by the BBC, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks described the military government as "the enemy of the people".

It said the monks would keep up their protests until they had "wiped the military dictatorship from the land of Burma".


That is indeed amazing! I now think that something may come out of this. They seem to be set for the long-term.
 
Buddhist monks in Burma say they'll continue their protests against the military until democracy is restored.

Our South East Asia Correspondent Karen Percy says monks led the last major anti military protest in Burma almost 20 years ago.

15 hundred monks demonstrated through the streets of Rangoon on Friday, in the biggest protest yet.

Reports say that the organising group which calls itself the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks has promised to continue protesting until the military junta is gone.

Earlier in the week, the military used tear gas on a group of monks protesting in the city of Sittwe.

Some monks have refused to accept alms from members of the military, a major snub in a country where such offerings are a big part of religious life.

Ordinary citizens have been supporting the monks from the sidelines, but have been discouraged from joining the protest.
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http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s2040534.htm
 
The full statement:

All Burma Monks Alliance: Statement of People’s Alliance Formation Committee to the Entire Clergy and the People of the Whole Country

Subject: Designation of existing evil military despotism as the “Common Enemy” of the whole people and exhortation for speedy formation of People’s Alliance led bythe Clergy to struggle peacefully against the evil military dictatorship till its complete downfall

The current general crisis of the people is caused by the evil military dictatorship which is oppressing and terrorizing the entire masses of the people.

Therefore we pronounce the evil military despotism, which is impoverishing and pauperizing our people of all walks including the Clergy, as the “Common Enemy” of all our citizens. Therefore, in order to banish the common enemy evil regime from Burmese soil forever, united masses of people
need to join hands with the united Clergy forces.

Hence, to swiftly establish a disciplined and united “People’s Alliance,” we the All Burma Monks Alliance will take the initiative and set up the Alliance step by step under the following agenda. We solemnly and specifically urge all people and monks to follow us with full unity and trust.

Step 1. To boost the force of Metta (love) in this country which is experiencing very low level of Metta between each other, and achieve peace, residences of every household and every monastery should come out to the doorsteps or balconies on 2007 September 23 at 20:00 hours and recite in unison two clauses of Metta radiation prayers, “Away with bullying of men by men! Let our Metta energy encompass and bring peace to the world!” for 15 minutes till 20:15 hours.

People’s Alliance Formation Committee
All Burma Monks Alliance
File No. 1.5/2007
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Barking_Mad said:
from the Guardian on Friday



http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2174128,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
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But also:

The Burmese military government have set up soldiers in several locations around Rangoon in recent days, according to sources in Rangoon.

A monk in Rangoon said that he had seen several trucks carrying uniformed soldiers who were fully armed. The soldiers appeared only at nighttime and occupied areas such as Shwedagon Pagoda, People’s Park and Square, Resistance Park and the Kyaikkasan football ground, he said.

The Burmese military government is also preparing the San Pya Hospital in Rangoon’s Thingangyun District by clearing out the patients, according to a patient who was ordered to leave the hospital.
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Latest from the BBC

Thousands of monks have taken to the streets of Burma in a sixth day of anti-military government protests.
Two thousand monks went on the march in Mandalay, while at least 1,000 rallied in Rangoon. Protests were also taking place in five other cities.

It comes a day after the leaders of the demonstrations vowed to continue until the military government collapsed.

They want the Burmese people to pray in their doorways for 15 minutes at 2000 on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.

In Rangoon, the monks converged on Burma's most revered temple, the Shwedagon Pagoda, before continuing their march.

They were watched by plain clothes security officials but there were no reports of any violence.

The protests began last month when the government doubled fuel prices, but they have taken on new momentum this week since the monks became more widely involved.




Profile: Shwedagon Pagoda

On Friday, the Alliance of All Burmese Buddhist Monks branded Burma's military rulers "the enemy of the people".

The monks said they would continue their peaceful demonstrations until they had "wiped the military dictatorship from the land".

Some 1,500 monks took to the streets of Rangoon on Friday in protest at recent government attempts to silence critics.

Diplomats at the United Nations have expressed concern at the crisis.

UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband has pledged to raise the crisis in the former British colony at the UN General Assembly in New York next week.

The monks' protests began on Monday but gathered pace on Tuesday, after the expiration of a deadline issued by them demanding a government apology for earlier violence.

The monks have also been withholding religious duties from anyone connected with the military.

The movement has turned into the largest public show of opposition to the Burmese authorities since the uprising of 1988.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7007947.stm
 
UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband has pledged to raise the crisis in the former British colony at the UN General Assembly in New York next week.
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After my strongly-worded email to him the other day :)
 
Bloody nora!!!!!!

Irrawaddy said:
Detained pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi, dressed in yellow, came out of her home, where she is under house arrest, to pay respect to protesting monks who marched on the street in front of her home on Rangoon’s University Avenue on Saturday afternoon, witnesses said. Suu Kyi had a short conversation with the group of monks, who numbered several hundred. What they discussed was not known. The monks marched through barricades on the street in front of her home while chanting the Metta Sutta (the Buddha’s words on loving kindness). Authorities made no effort to stop the monks.
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:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:



Just round the corner from where I used to live

Mizzima said:
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi greets protesters

Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, detained Burmese pro-democracy leader, greeted protesting monks and their civilian followers, from inside her residence compound for about 15 minutes as they arrived in front of her house on the University Avenue Street in Rangoon. However, as she is restricted from going out, she was unable to address them.

Protesters shouted "Long-live Daw Aung San Suu Kyi" and continued marching and are heading for Sule pagoda in downtown Rangoon.

"We saw Daw Aung San Suu Kyi come out of her house. She was wearing a yellow shirt and the crowd began shouting 'Long-Live Daw Aung San Suu Kyi' for about 15 minutes and continued marching towards Sule pagoda. Now they are in Sule pagoda, and are going up on to the pagoda. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi came out to the compound," an eyewitness told Mizzima.
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"Subject: Designation of existing evil military despotism as the “Common Enemy” of the whole people and exhortation for speedy formation of People’s Alliance led bythe Clergy to struggle peacefully against the evil military dictatorship till its complete downfall"

That is just beautiful to read.

I still can't quite fathom why all this is happening now. It's really amazing and i've never heard anything remotely like this from burma in my 16 years of living next door. It seems that the monks have decided that the dictators and generals must go, and that is that. To invite the population to all pray for 15 minutes at a designated time is fantastic.

The thai government to my knowledge have said nowt. There is a cultural thing in this part of the world that says you don't poke your nose in others' business. That has seriously hindered anything that thailand or even ASEAN could or would do.

Suddenly for the first time in over 10 years i feel optimistic for the burmese people. I just wonder if they're about to get their freedom for the first time in centuries. And of course the entire population have never experienced something that so many in the world take for granted: the option to be free and live in freedom from bullying fuckers in leadership positions.
 
“May we be completely free from all danger, may we be completely free from all grief, may we be completely free from poverty, may we have peace in heart and mind.”

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=101567&d=23&m=9&y=2007

Is that really too much to ask of all leaders all around the world? As for the burmese, is their dream about to be realised? All they want is freedom. I shall personally do my own praying at 2000 hours tonight. I'm not that far away and if millions are doing the same thing in burma at the same time, how powerful will that be?

Incidentally, 2000 hours will be 2pm in britain, assuming burma and thailand are on the same time.
 
This story from the bbc illustrates rather well what life is like in burma, to all intents and purposes a nation that is a giant prison camp.

Fancy being born afraid, born with fear, born with no freedom, born to have hope as the most positive thing available in your life.

Go go the monks, continue on, and don't rest until you achieve your wonderfully stated and worded objectives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7006506.stm
 
Weirdly, Burma is 5.5 hours ahead of UK time, so 8pm there is 2.30pm here (so you're half an hour ahead in Thailand, ff)

I'll be praying for the people in that once glorious country, ransacked and misruled for decades. These demonstrators are both the bravest and the gentlest people you could imagine. They've had to get used to their plight being ignored by the outside world. It would be great if, for that short time today, the world actively thought about them.



As far as statements go, a fairly bland one from Miliband yesterday.

However, at least that's more than I've heard from Ban Ki Moon and the UN's pathetic envoy to Burma, Ibrahim Gambari. Nothing from ASEAN or its individual member states. Shocking - can't interfere in internal affairs now can we? And most importantly for Myanmar (sadly), not a word from China.

20,000 reported to be on the streets of Rangoon today. Given that they could have guns turned on them at any moment, this is truly incredible.
 
Ma Suu at her gate

8704-SuuKyi_house.gif


*wipes away tears*
 
Well - I'm useless, decided to go to bed at 14:28. :oops:

But can't sleep, so here I am and Purves has set me off cryin' again. In a good way. :)

Go people!
 
purves grundy said:
I'll be praying for the people in that once glorious country, ransacked and misruled for decades. These demonstrators are both the bravest and the gentlest people you could imagine. They've had to get used to their plight being ignored by the outside world. It would be great if, for that short time today, the world actively thought about them.
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in a nutshell. i'd love tp be able to do something to help, even from so far away
 
Today, reports of somewher ebetween 30 - 50,000 people demonstrating on the streets of Rangoon. It's getting bigger everyday.

And ominously:

Mizzima said:
The junta wanted to use teargas to disperse the protesters but due to incessant rain in Rangoon teargas shells have been rendered ineffective. In a ludicrous move the junta is looking for a huge quantity of liquid insect killer spray, to quell demonstrations. Reports suggest that the Rangoon Municipal Corporation has ordered for a huge quantity of insect killer spray.
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salute
 
From Sky, joined by the Nuns.

'They Are Getting Braver Every Day'
At least 10,000 monks, cheered on by thousands of onlookers, are staging what appears to be growing into the biggest demonstration yet against Burma's rulers.

Nuns and monks protest in Yangon. The monks began a sixth day of protests with prayers at the country's holiest shrine, the Shwedagon Pagoda, before marching through its biggest city, Yangon.

The march stretched for 1km as the monks entered the city centre to loud cheers from supporters lining the roads.

The protests were sparked by shock fuel price rises, but have since become a wider religious-led movement against the ruling generals, with one monk group calling for peaceful mass protests against the junta until its downfall.

"There's no prospect now of the monks just deciding to abandon this. They are getting braver every day and their demands are getting greater every day, and it's much more overtly political," a Yangon-based diplomat said.

"It's now about (imprisoned opposition leader) Aung San Suu Kyi, it's about reform.

"The monks have got numbers, and if not immunity, then certainly it's much more difficult for the government to crack down on them than ordinary civilians."

The protests began on August 19 and prompted the government to round up the activists who organised them, who now face up to 20 years in jail.

Some of the country's biggest celebrities, including Tun Eindra Bo - Burma's equivalent of Angelina Jolie - have pledged to provide the monks with whatever assistance they need.
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1285432,00.html?f=rss
 
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