Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Stigmata]

I liked those nerd villains who accurately referenced episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation

Overall Firefly was better though

 

[kabbes]

Firefly didn't even have a proper finish.

 

[The Octagon]

Angel developed into a very good show IMO, and Boreanaz improved dramatically vs his Buffy appearances.

The Season 2/3 stuff with Darla and Holtz was right up there in terms of drama and emotional punch.

Wesley's character arc is probably my favourite one out of both shows.

Fred - "Why can't I stay?"

Incidentally, Wesley (Alexis Denisof, now married to Alyson Hannigan) and Fred (Amy Acker), play a (sort-of) couple in Whedon's new adaptation of Much Ado About Nothing, which in itself is a game of 'spot the Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Dollhouse actor'

 

[DotCommunist]

I liked those nerd villains who accurately referenced episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation

Overall Firefly was better though

another one I don't rate and yet have been to conventions of.

one day I'll go to a convention of something I like. London Expo doesn't count cos its a broad church of nerd

 

[Rebelda]

its actually really clever how they chose to use a "comedy" episode for so many big plot items.

Like when Anya is having flashbacks, after Xander ditches her and she becomes a demon again and kills all those frat boys. The cut from 'I will beeeeee' is brutal. Love the 'mustard on my shirt' touch in the background of that ep. that links to the 'they got the mustard out' song in the full musical.

 

[kabbes]

Angel developed into a good show, from mediocre beginnings. It never had the depth of Buffy though.

 

[kabbes]

Like when Anya is having flashbacks, after Xander ditches her and she becomes a demon again and kills all those frat boys. The cut from 'I will beeeeee' is brutal.

One of the best moments of anything on telly. Only beaten by some of the moments of The Body, such as the cut from Buffy's imagining her mother getting well again back to the sight of her dead on the floor.

 

[kabbes]

I have to take issue with this, though:

I will never forgive Joss Whedon for killing Anya. Never ever

Anya had to die. Thematically, character-wise, any way you want to put it -- she had to go. She had redeemed herself, she had completed her arc (and WHAT an arc!) and it was time for her to die. That's exactly what made it so damned powerful. There could be no future for her.

 

[Rebelda]

One of the best moments of anything on telly. Only beaten by some of the moments of The Body, such as the cut from Buffy's imagining her mother getting well again back to the sight of her dead on the floor.

That bit makes me hold my breath. Every time.

 

[Reno]

I've never bothered watching Angel because I found David Boreanaz to be one of the real weak points of the original show.

You've been missing out. Not only was it great in its own right, it's also were many of Buffy's best recurring characters came into their own. And just like Buffy was an ensemble show and not just about its title character, so was Angel.

 

[JTG]

Like when Anya is having flashbacks, after Xander ditches her and she becomes a demon again and kills all those frat boys. The cut from 'I will beeeeee' is brutal. Love the 'mustard on my shirt' touch in the background of that ep. that links to the 'they got the mustard out' song in the full musical.

oooh, Anya going full postal on that frat house was blood curdling

 

[Rebelda]

I have to take issue with this, though:

Anya had to die. Thematically, character-wise, any way you want to put it -- she had to go. She had redeemed herself, she had completed her arc (and WHAT an arc!) and it was time for her to die. That's exactly what made it so damned powerful. There could be no future for her.

I know But I don't like it.

Someone big had to die and it couldn't be a scooby; couldn't be Dawn because that would leave Buffy sad nor Principal Wood because that would remove Faith's potential happiness (and I repeat: anyone suggesting Faith is going on ignore).

 

[JTG]

I have to take issue with this, though:

Anya had to die. Thematically, character-wise, any way you want to put it -- she had to go. She had redeemed herself, she had completed her arc (and WHAT an arc!) and it was time for her to die. That's exactly what made it so damned powerful. There could be no future for her.

Indeed. Just as Spike had to go

 

[Rebelda]

oooh, Anya going full postal on that frat house was blood curdling

Which reminds me of the brilliance of D'Hoffryn

I've never heard of him. What did you say his name was? D'Hoffryn-fr-fr-fr.

 

[kabbes]

It's not just that somebody big had to die. Anya had to die. She had learnt to become human, she had learnt to understand death, she had learnt fear and pain and loss, and now it was time for her to die.

 

[kabbes]

Indeed. Just as Spike had to go

Bringing Spike back for Angel was brilliant in that he is an amazing character and his chemistry with Angel was fantastic. But it was terrible in that Spike's arc was complete and revising it was always going to be unsatisfying.

 

[Rebelda]

It's not just that somebody big had to die. Anya had to die. She had learnt to become human, she had learnt to understand death, she had learnt fear and pain and loss, and now it was time for her to die.

*lalalalalalala I can't hear you*

 

[JTG]

Bringing Spike back for Angel was brilliant in that he is an amazing character and his chemistry with Angel was fantastic. But it was terrible in that Spike's arc was complete and revising it was always going to be unsatisfying.

Oh. Perhaps I shouldn't watch Angel after all then

 

[kabbes]

Oh. Perhaps I shouldn't watch Angel after all then

Oops. Spoiler. Not until something like series 3, though.

The Angel/Spike stuff is hilarious, mind. And lots of Spike backstory, which is lovely.

 

[The Octagon]

I think it was more the almost casual way Anya died, in that it was true to how a real person would probably fare in that situation, not able to protect yourself from all angles, overwhelmed and brutally cut down, with no time for anyone to grieve or hear your last words.

Spike got the drawn-out, time-to-say-something-romantic-and-cool 'TV' death in the finale.

The fact he's responsible for knocking down the Sunnydale sign for the 3rd time was a great in-joke too.

EDIT - In fact, 'Chosen' bothers me slightly because the 'back-up' teams are split up really unevenly (Xander and Dawn, Anya and Andrew, Wood and Giles?). I'm still not sure how Andrew didn't die, it's edited a bit shoddily.

 

[kabbes]

The fact he's responsible for knocking down the Sunnydale sign for the 3rd time was a great in-joke too.

I'd never even twigged that!

 

[Rebelda]

I think it was more the almost casual way Anya died, in that it was true to how a real person would probably fare in that situation, not able to protect yourself from all angles, overwhelmed and brutally cut down, with no time for anyone to grieve or hear your last words.

The cut through her chest is actually awesome. I love the touch at the end, where Andrew ('I have swimmers ear' ) lies to Xander and tells him she died saving his life. Telling a story for good.

Hate Andrew's cry face though.

 

[Reno]

Like with all of Whedon's TV series, season 1 of Angel was a little shakey, though I thought it was better than season 1 of Buffy. By season 2 everything was in place. I'm as much of a fan of that show as I am of Buffy and it's best watched alternating Buffy and Angel episodes as they were released, because often characters go from one series into the next and continue plot lines over there. Faith, Darla, Wesley and Harmony all became more interesting characters on Angel. Spike was as much fun as ever. Cordelia by neccessity of becoming a lead, completely changed as a character and eventually they didn't know what to do with her anymore.

 

[The Octagon]

Also, before I forget, Beer Bad is actually not a bad episode and I don't get why it picks up so much flak from the majority of fans.

Willow pwning Parker and Xander / Giles dealing with Cave-Buffy all made me lol hard.

 

[Reno]

Oh. Perhaps I shouldn't watch Angel after all then

Oh rubbish.. Fans who boycott something that's great because they feel some wrong was done by a favourite character are mental. There is five seasons of Whedon brilliance there, with its own intricate mytholgy and mutitude of great characters and plot lines. And Spike is great on Angel.

 

[Glitter]

It's not just that somebody big had to die. Anya had to die. She had learnt to become human, she had learnt to understand death, she had learnt fear and pain and loss, and now it was time for her to die.

Yep, I get that.

So when we're talking about journeys and so on what about Xander. He summoned the demon in Once More With Feeling and lots of people died. No consequences.

And also what about to Buffy in Season 2 'Willow says........kick his ass' Now if Buffy had known what Willow was doing it would potentially have changed what happens. Eventually in Season 7 it comes out that he lied and.....nothing.


Also, anyone else desperate to know what the fuck Cecily did to become a vengeance demon?

 

[Glitter]

The cut through her chest is actually awesome. I love the touch at the end, where Andrew ('I have swimmers ear' ) lies to Xander and tells him she died saving his life. Telling a story for good.

Hate Andrew's cry face though.

I hate the fact he's in that Pepsi Max advert. In fact, he's been in loads of things and always looks slightly different so you're never sure if it's him.

 

[DotCommunist]

Indeed. Just as Spike had to go

but then he turned up again in Torchwood and my brain was offended

 

[Rebelda]

I hate the fact he's in that Pepsi Max advert. In fact, he's been in loads of things and always looks slightly different so you're never sure if it's him.

He was in Buffy S5 as one of Harmony's minions. eta: I had never noticed that was him in the advert!

 

[Reno]

I was never bothered by Spike's and Anya's deaths. They died in the last episode, so it's not like we had to do without them. And if there is a final life or death battle, if they don't kill off some of the leads, it feels like a cop-out.