maomao
普費斯
Huh?
British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
Athos
Well-Known Member
The Courts didn't; the HS did.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It was the government, not the courts
maomao
普費斯
Ah okay. And the courts supported that decision by saying she was entitled to citizenship in a country she'd never visited, known for not following their own laws and who have publicly said they not only won't give her citizenship but that they will execute all returning IS recruits leaving her effectively stateless. And your response to any discussion of this is to direct people to the judgement.
Athos
Well-Known Member
No, my response to specific incorrect claims about the legal position is to correct them.
I'm happy to discuss the moral position, about which I've been quite clear: I object to this law, and I don't agree with the outcome in this instance.
You want it both ways; happy to speak about the law, but only to the extent that you can make vague, unsupported claims - essentially wishful thinking that the law supports your moral position - about the HS acting unlawfully, then objecting to anyone pointing out where you're wrong!
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strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Britain bans extradition of its own citizens when they could be at risk of the death penalty in the requesting country, but it's quite happy to remove a brown woman's citizenship and tell her she's welcome to go and face the death penalty in Bangladesh or Syria if she wants. Wonder why that is.
maomao
普費斯
And your instinct as a lawyer is to completely accept the judgement rather than look for an argument against it? Remind me not to hire you if I need a brief. I remain unconvinced that this is the only possible interpretation of the law and am still of the opinion that given the history of the rule of law in Bangladesh and the public statements of the Bangladeshi government that her statelessness is in every way the fault of the UK government.
maomao
普費斯
You say this but yesterday I made statements that did not refer to legal process and you replied with reference to the decision of the courts.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I think her travelling 2000 miles to join the most murderous group in the world might have had something to do with it.
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Athos
Well-Known Member
No, I've looked at it very carefully. But I just can't see where the SIAC erred in law on the Bangladeshi citizenship point. But, if you can, please explain in detail, by reference to the full judgement. Tell us how the court interpreted the law wrong, rather than these vague, unsupported claims.
And I don't doubt that you're sincere when you blame the UK government, notwithstanding that you're completely unable to articulate how they could reasonably be considered responsible - legally or morally - for the subsequent unlawul actions of foreign politicians.
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strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
We don't extradite people to face the death penalty regardless of their crimes, yet will happily tell a young British woman who was trafficked as a 15 year old that she'll have to face execution in a country she's never been to (if she can ever escape the country she was trafficked to).
Athos
Well-Known Member
Did I? Where?
in any event, you flit from one to the other, as it suits you. And the distinction isn't always as clear as you make out, anyway.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The UK hasn't told this young woman (who, as things stand, is no longer British, and may or may not have been trafficked) she'll have to face execution; its position is that she can stay in the camp. Problematic in itself, but not what you claim.
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Overlooking the mischaracterisation of what's actually happened, the (then) HS's conduct could be explained by concerns about public safety, political populism, racism, sexism, or a mixture of two or more.
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maomao
普費斯
I'm happy with discussing opinions on right and wrong thank you. That has been my point all along.
Anyway, I've just taken a 'mental health' break from work and study and I'll be fucked if I'm making things worse by going in circles with you in full Mr Logic mode so I shall bow out for now.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm happy to discuss those too, but will also continue to discuss the legal issues, particularly when others raise them. Which, like it or not, is what you've been doing, at least in part e.g. by suggesting the court wrongly interpreted the law on the issue of Bangladeshi citizenship.
I hope your mental health break is a success, and I don't blame you for prioritising that over this discussion!
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
They’re telling her nothing of the sort. She can stay where she is. Iraq have offered to try these people in their courts. That’s what should happen.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Note to potential terrorists: If either of your parents were born in any of the red countries, you may have dual citizenship that you're unaware of. However, experience has shown that this doesn't matter if you avoid associating with genocidal rapist child-murderers.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
How come some parts of France differ from other parts of France?
maomao
普費斯
Far from that simple. My kids would not get Chinese citizenship automatically despite having a Chinese national (PRC passport holder, not a British citizen) as a parent.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That’s why “may” is key in the sentence. The map is a good starting point though. Anyone contemplating joining overseas rape cults can now check the map and research their citizenship status if necessary.
maomao
普費斯
Quick shufty suggests India's not that simple either so that's 80%+ of the population of the red areas discounted. It's a lot more to do with whether the citizenship has to be applied for or is somehow automatically conferred than whether it's by blood or land.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
See? It’s working already. If potential terrorist sympathisers do what you’ve just done they may not end up being made stateless by countries like Bangladesh, acting against their own laws.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
We are all potential terrorists.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well no. Not if you’re an idiot.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
Things the map shows:
1. Whether you're automatically offered citizenship in a country you're born in
Things the map doesn't show:
1. Whether you're offered citizenship in a country your parents are born in
2. Whether you're offered citizenship in a country you're not born in
What's your point again
1. Whether you're automatically offered citizenship in a country you're born in
Things the map doesn't show:
1. Whether you're offered citizenship in a country your parents are born in
2. Whether you're offered citizenship in a country you're not born in
What's your point again
maomao
普費斯
I'd be pretty upset if my kids joined ISIS but I can imagine them doing things that the British state, particularly this government ten-fifteen years down the line, might want to define as terrorism that I'd be perfectly happy with. Wasn't Patel trying to get ER defined as terrorists or something.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's very strange that according to your map people born in Guadeloupe or French Guiana have to negotiate different citizenship laws from those born in nice or angers
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