British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[newbie]

There are at least 7 British women and 15 or so children in that camp, according to the journo on the radio yesterday. I don't see how making them stateless helps anything or anyone, which implies they should get consular assistance to return here, once they've served any jail terms elsewhere. When they're here there are plenty of laws that can be used to lock them up or restrict their movements, and to take their children into care.

 

[Smick]

It's a tough one, my compassionate side would say bring her home.
However, as has been said there seems to be no shame and even a touch of pride that she joined daesh.
She seems to want all her rights without accepting her responsibilities.
personally I don't know what to think!

It's not lack of shame, but she sees what she had as a normal life which is troubling. But that's common for people in abnormal circumstances. People in the most miserable lives have bad days and days which they enjoy. It just becomes life. Even in our society emergency services people see dead bodies then go home and try not to dwell on the negatives.

She is on her third pregnancy at 19 and has lost two children. There's no doubt in my mind that she is a victim who has been used and abused.

I think she'd need a lot of rehabilitation, due to the danger that she might pose, but I think she should be helped.

 

[brogdale]

Even if she does want to come back she has to find her way to somewhere with UK consular assistance. She is in a refugee camp in a failed state, not sure any civil servant will be rushing out with some forms to fill in.

Yep, and I'd imagine that returning to the UK is the action most likely to result in separation of mother and child (when born). If her priority is to be with the child it would seem that the refugee camp is the better option in the short-term.

 

[xenon]

The UK govt aren't going to bring her home as the article states.
"Security minister Ben Wallace said he could not comment on Ms Begum's case for legal reasons but said any Britons who had gone to Syria to engage or support terrorist activities should be prepared to be questioned, investigated and potentially prosecuted if they came back to the UK.

He said there was no consular assistance in Syria so any Briton wanting help would need to find consular services elsewhere in the region.

Asked whether the government would be rushing to bring home people such as Ms Begum, he said: "I'm not putting at risk British people's lives to go and look for terrorists or former terrorists in a failed state."

He added that while the UK had a duty of care to children of Britons in Syria, he also had a duty towards all UK citizens and would do what was "proportionate and necessary" to keep people safe.

Sir Peter Fahy, a retired senior police chief who led the Prevent terrorism prevention programme at the time the girls ran away, said if Ms Begum did return to the UK, the authorities would first detain her and investigate whether there was enough evidence to mount a prosecution.

He said he could understand why the government was "not particularly interested" in facilitating her return.

"If the woman was showing complete remorse, it would be completely different," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

He said it would cost a "vast amount of money" and the biggest challenge would be for local police to keep her safe.

They would have to ensure she did not become a lightning rod for both right-wing extremists and Islamic extremists and did not try to justify her position and actions, he added."

So unless she gets to a tstate with UK consular representation, that's that. Unless you think the UK should send people in to retrieve her? (I do not.)

 

[xenon]

My compassionomitor isn't ticking over much for this one, I have to say. I mean i'ts obviously sad she's lost children but thousands of children have been killed and or abused over there and they had no plane to get on.

 

[brogdale]

He said it would cost a "vast amount of money" and the biggest challenge would be for local police to keep her safe.

We can only guess at what Tommeh/YVUK protests at return to Bethnal Green would precipitate.

 

[kebabking]

It would be illuminating to give her a choice of a) having her child returned to the UK, fostered and then adopted, with her left to rot in Syria, or b) they can both rot in Syria...

She didn't cry out for rescue when her first child died, nor the second one. She didn't cry out for rescue when she saw Yazidi women and children being herded into the snow to die of hypothermia, she didn't cry out for rescue when she learned that her 'housemaid' was a trafficked, raped slave - yes, slave, with chains around her neck and the business - I rather bet she wouldn't take the offer because she'd know that without the child, no one will give a shit about her...

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hearty clickbait fare.

Get tons of people piling in saying ‘fuck her’ ‘she’s made her bed’ etc, and then liberals who normally don’t like nationhood and borders piling in to assert her rights due to her nationality. Bingo.

Telling that the liberal version of 'kindness' in this case involves taking a newborn from its mother forever.

 

[NoXion]

Telling that the liberal version of 'kindness' in this case involves taking a newborn from its mother forever.

Not sure that life in a Syrian camp is going to be any better for the child's prospects either. Especially if the mother gets murdered by someone pissed off with the Islamists.

 

[kebabking]

Telling that the liberal version of 'kindness' in this case involves taking a newborn from its mother forever.

As opposed to leaving it to rot in Syria, or vapour using it with a 500lb bomb, yeah, kindness is a good word.

What kind do of life do you foresee it having with its mpther?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Sorry, there's clearly a good option here that I'm completely missing. What was it again?

 

[miss direct]

I wonder how hard it would be for her to get to Turkey and go to a British consulate or embassy there.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

She's a British Citizen, we can't stop her from returning home, so long as she can get here, (the state has no obligation to assist her travels). There was talk about all returning ISIS members being prosecuted, would have thought that this would apply to her too (although this suggests that only a fraction have been nicked: Just one in ten British jihadis have been prosecuted on return to UK ).

It would seem sensible to jail her and whilst incarcerated to attempt to engage her in a programme of de-radicalisation. Some hope with the state of our prisons I guess.

I would imagine her baby should be removed from her by social services, as they would any parent/carer who would be raising a child in a manner likely to be of determent to the child?

 

[marshall]

Of course she should be allowed home, there's nothing to be gained by letting her rot in Syria other than a 'fuck you, you made your own bed' sense of satisfaction, but there are plenty of pluses in letting her come back and working out the 'whys'.

Who knows, she could prove invaluable in the long-term.

 

[tim]

So, who wants to sit next to her on the tube?

If she's nine months pregnant or with a small child, I hope I'd the decency to offer her my seat

 

[kebabking]

...here are plenty of pluses in letting her come back and working out the 'whys'.

List five of them.

 

[klang]

maybe we should set up a caliphate within Britain to keep all the returnees happy.

 

[Teaboy]

She's a British Citizen, we can't stop her from returning home, so long as she can get here, (the state has no obligation to assist her travels). There was talk about all returning ISIS members being prosecuted, would have thought that this would apply to her too (although this suggests that only a fraction have been nicked: Just one in ten British jihadis have been prosecuted on return to UK ).

It would seem sensible to jail her and whilst incarcerated to attempt to engage her in a programme of de-radicalisation. Some hope with the state of our prisons I guess.

I would imagine her baby should be removed from her by social services, as they would any parent/carer who would be raising a child in a manner likely to be of determent to the child?

Good points. If she finds her way to consular assistance then she should get what anyone else would in that situation. The state has no more responsibility to her as they would to any other UK citizen who has got themselves in a situation abroad.

Given she was a child when she went (and thus committed the offence) it would be hard to see any sort of prison sentence happening or being appropriate.

One thing that has come out of this and the interviews with those remaining beatles guys that are held by the Kurds is the total disconnect with anything they have done or been a part of. They talk like they have just tried living in a different country and it hasn't worked out so they want home. Obviously they are all no doubt utterly traumatised and fucked up after everything that has happened but they are just so cold with it all and utterly free of any remorse, almost like they are the victims. I guess they are to an extent but willing victims all the same.

 

[tim]

It's a tough one, my compassionate side would say bring her home.
However, as has been said there seems to be no shame and even a touch of pride that she joined daesh.
She seems to want all her rights without accepting her responsibilities.
personally I don't know what to think!

She's 19 and she ran away at 15. We as a society seem to have no problem in in extending compassion to adults who committed crimes while serving in the British army and virtually everyone involved in the violence, however brutal or sectarian in Northern Ireland has been let off. Why does she merit being treated differently?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

maybe we should set up a caliphate within Britain to keep all the returnees happy.

We've already got one, it's called Belmarsh.

 

[weepiper]

She's 19 and she ran away at 15. We as a society seem to have no problem in in extending compassion to adults who committed crimes while serving in the British army and virtually everyone involved in the violence, however brutal or sectarian in Northern Ireland has been let off. Why does she merit being treated differently?

They're men.

 

[likesfish]

maybe we should set up a caliphate within Britain to keep all the returnees happy.

could put it in thetford think of the carbon miles we'd save in drone miles alone

 

[Teaboy]

If she's nine months pregnant or with a small child, I hope I'd the decency to offer her my seat

And move several carriages along.

Whilst its not a reason to not allow her back into the country, it would be naive in the extreme to believe she is not a threat just as much as any of the fighters returning home.

 

[Teaboy]

They're men.

Its the IS thing, people were exactly they same when those beatles chaps started saying they want home.

 

[kebabking]

Sorry, there's clearly a good option here that I'm completely missing. What was it again?

It's the one most people take - they choose not to travel thousands of miles to become fangirls of a genocidal, slaving state. Once she chose to be different the good options started falling away.

 

[Pickman's model]

Its the IS thing, people were exactly they same when those beatles chaps started saying they want home.

having seen where ringo, paul and george lived, i'd like one of those homes too

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Its the IS thing, people were exactly they same when those beatles chaps started saying they want home.

People were mostly saying, "meh" when the UK wasn't prepared to step in to stop them facing a potential death sentence, (not that the UK had any jurisdiction to intervene anyway). Possibly there's some everyday sexism going on here, but it feels to me to be a more ISIS = CUNTS thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

She's 19 and she ran away at 15. We as a society seem to have no problem in in extending compassion to adults who committed crimes while serving in the British army and virtually everyone involved in the violence, however brutal or sectarian in Northern Ireland has been let off. Why does she merit being treated differently?

i must have imagined internment, the h-blocks, the campaigns against strip-searching, the blanketmen and hungerstrikes then.

perhaps you should read this

and this

 

[dylanredefined]

She's 19 and she ran away at 15. We as a society seem to have no problem in in extending compassion to adults who committed crimes while serving in the British army and virtually everyone involved in the violence, however brutal or sectarian in Northern Ireland has been let off. Why does she merit being treated differently?

None of them think getting on a tube train with a bomb is a brave and noble act. Or lived out mad max fantasies in the desert.
She has been part of a horrific cult and may well pose a risk. At best her values are not UK values anymore.

 

[Pickman's model]

her values are not UK values anymore.

and what are uk values then?