British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Spymaster]

The difference presumably being the ability to have a consistent point of view and argue it.

Well as ever, I can argue it perfectly consistently for you and have done. I just can't understand it for you or adjust it to fit what you'd prefer me to have said.

 

[Spymaster]

Begum's appeal unanimously dismissed by the Supreme Court.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Reading earlier that her advocates were hanging their hopes on that she couldn't do the hearing remotely as she has no access to facilities to achieve that. Seeing her do a TV interview previously from the camp must have made that point seem a bit far fetched...

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Huge relief for Priti Patel.

 

[steeplejack]

Kind of like an Old Firm game this case in that you want both sides to lose very badly.

 

[Ax^]

.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Poor decision imo. I stand by all the objections to it made in this thread. Double-tier citizenship dependent on your ethnicity. It stinks.

 

[kebabking]

Poor decision imo. I stand by all the objections to it made in this thread. Double-tier citizenship dependent on your ethnicity. It stinks.

Subtle - but it removes your argument - point, not ethnicity, but nationality.

She could be ethnically European, but if her parents had been born in Bangladesh the situation would be the same. As it would be - and has been shown - when the other state is Canada.

 

[Spymaster]

Subtle - but it removes your argument - point, not ethnicity, but nationality.

Nothing subtle about it. It's huge, and absolutely pertinent.

 

[Flavour]

shame we cannot kick Patel out of the country as well she is fair more dangerous than Begum

Not ok to say this

 

[SpackleFrog]

Poor decision imo. I stand by all the objections to it made in this thread. Double-tier citizenship dependent on your ethnicity. It stinks.

I can't say I can muster a huge amount of sympathy for Begum individually but as has been noted the precedent set here is very dangerous and will be used against innocent people.

The main thing that concerns me though is the performative frothing vitriol of some of the posters on this thread, celebrating as if something that would in any way affect their lives has taken place. Its worth remembering that the people who are working themselves into a frenzy wishing death upon her are exactly the kind of vulnerable, troubled souls who would - in different circumstances - run away and join a group like Daesh simply to feel a sense of belonging and meaning, just like she did.

 

[SpookyFrank]

shame we cannot kick Patel out of the country as well she is fair more dangerous than Begum

Give her time, she'll probably try and have herself deported.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Not ok to say this

Why? It's correct.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why? It's correct.

Nah I agree with Flavour. Using a person's ethnicity against them is wrong, no matter how vile that person is. Applies to Begum and applies to Patel.

 

[Ax^]

Not ok to say this

which part kick her out or that she is more dangerous than Begum

 

[SpackleFrog]

Nah I agree with Flavour. Using a person's ethnicity against them is wrong, no matter how vile that person is. Applies to Begum and applies to Patel.

Is that was being said? Ax^ said it was a shame Patel can't be kicked out of the country because she was dangerous, not because of her ethnicity.

 

[Ax^]

oh to me they are just British if that clears it up only one has had they citizenship stripped away

**

 

[MickiQ]

My position is the same as it was, when all this began. Whilst I care nothing for this woman as an individual I'm not happy with the idea that politicians can strip someone of British citizenship acquired by birthright for any reaon at all. TBF I think this thread has been done to death now.

 

[Athos]

I can't say I can muster a huge amount of sympathy for Begum individually but as has been noted the precedent set here is very dangerous and will be used against innocent people.

This case doesn't set any such precedent. Hundreds of dual nationals (of various nationalities/ethnicities) have been stripped of their British citizenship. And there is a well-established system of oversight, judicial scrutiny, and appeal to mitigate against the power being used improperly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is that was being said? Ax^ said it was a shame Patel can't be kicked out of the country because she was dangerous, not because of her ethnicity.

Suggesting that you'd like someone to be deported when that person has brown skin and is the daughter of refugees isn't neutral, however much you might wish it to be.

 

[Athos]

Is that was being said? Ax^ said it was a shame Patel can't be kicked out of the country because she was dangerous, not because of her ethnicity.

Like Begum.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This case doesn't set any such precedent. Hundreds of dual nationals (of various nationalities/ethnicities) have been stripped of their British citizenship. And there is a well-established system of oversight, judicial scrutiny, and appeal to mitigate against the power being used improperly.

"The state will ensure that no impropriety will be allowed to occur..."

 

[Artaxerxes]

This case doesn't set any such precedent. Hundreds of dual nationals (of various nationalities/ethnicities) have been stripped of their British citizenship. And there is a well-established system of oversight, judicial scrutiny, and appeal to mitigate against the power being used improperly.

She isn't a dual national, she's effectively stateless.

She's "eligible" for a Bangladeshi passport but has never held one or afaik been to Bangladesh.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Suggesting that you'd like someone to be deported when that person has brown skin and is the daughter of refugees isn't neutral, however much you might wish it to be.

Bending the stick way too far there mate. The existence of racist sentiment in society doesn't automatically mean that anyone who expresses antipathy towards an individual who is black is expressing racist sentiment.

They might be, sure, maybe they wouldn't say they'd like to Johnson or Gove to be deported in which case yeah thats a statement which is influenced by racism and race, but you can't just assume it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Like Begum.

We can measure the dangers Patel poses to people. The idea that Begum is dangerous is just your projection. She might be dangerous, but you don't know.

 

[Athos]

She isn't a dual national, she's effectively stateless.

She's "eligible" for a Bangladeshi passport but has never held one or afaik been to Bangladesh.

This is simply wrong in law. She is a Bangladeshi national, by virtue of Bangladeshi law (as set out at length earlier in the thread).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bending the stick way too far there mate. The existence of racist sentiment in society doesn't automatically mean that anyone who expresses antipathy towards an individual who is black is expressing racist sentiment.

They might be, sure, maybe they wouldn't say they'd like to Johnson or Gove to be deported in which case yeah thats a statement which is influenced by racism and race, but you can't just assume it.

You miss the point. The statement may not be intended to come across as referencing Patel's race. But that intention isn't enough on its own. We don't live in a neutral world where we can ignore that context.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This is simply wrong in law. She is a Bangladeshi national, by virtue of Bangladeshi law (as set out at length earlier in the thread).

Yeah we did that to death, your arguments weren't conclusive, in fact nobodys were to be honest because an interpretation would need to be made by a Bangladeshi court and it never will be. Lets not reopen it it was dull.

 

[19force8]

This is simply wrong in law. She is a Bangladeshi national, by virtue of Bangladeshi law (as set out at length earlier in the thread).

Maybe tell Bangladesh that.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

She can still appeal against losing her citizenship. She just can't come back to the uk in the meantime.