Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

British and Irish Lions

Thought you'd been quiet since Saturday bendeus. :D

Top post, disagree with you about Mikey Phillips for player of tournament, yes we needed him to match the Saffies for physicality, but he seemed hell bent on playing down the blindside when there was never anything on.

I'm going to be boring and say Jamie Roberts, or maybe Stephen Jones, fuck it I don't know.
 
Thought you'd been quiet since Saturday bendeus. :D

Top post, disagree with you about Mikey Phillips for player of tournament, yes we needed him to match the Saffies for physicality, but he seemed hell bent on playing down the blindside when there was never anything on.

I'm going to be boring and say Jamie Roberts, or maybe Stephen Jones, fuck it I don't know.

Fair shout, mate. It was tight as hell, but for consistency over every single game, Phillips deserves the plaudits. Others who could have put their hands up - BOD, Roberts, etc. were injured for the last test through no fault of their own, but Phillips stood out in every match he played in, which was all of them. The Bokke didn't know how to deal with him at all. He caused them no end of problems. Like a number of players, he came of age on this tour.
 
Excellent posts Bendy, the true voice of reason on all things rugby!

On the subject of Philips, I think as previously discussed that it was a tactic to go blind to drag the play wide and let the backs lose, something the Os have perfected over the last couple of seasons.

Some excellent performances from the younger members of the tour who will have a couple of tours atleast left in them if they stay fit and on top of their game. The maturity shown by some in very telling circumstances was immense and I cant wait for 4 years!!

My low point was Ellis getting a test cap!! That is just wrong, so very very wrong!
 
Funny that Heaslip finally showed up in a well-balanced backrow, isn't it? Case bloody rested.

I wonder what would have happened if Ferris wasn't injured, I thought he was a massive loss.

eta: my player of the tournament is Kearney, so solid under those high balls, caught almost everything and used it well.
 
Can I just add that we were fitter than the Bokke and never need fear altitude again. The Lions never seemed to run out of puff.

O'Gara is only comfortable in teams that work around his game. Ireland and Munster have done it for years. It's a conservative forwards/kicking game that showcases the qualities he does have. I've hated O'Gara in the past for nailing us with his kicks to the corner.

This tour showed him up as a one-dimensional player. I struggle to call him a coward when I remember his face getting twatted by the fisty Aussie chap: that was enough to make a man hang up his boots and was itself a pretty cowardly act. However, tackling just doesn't seem to be his bag. He deserved his place on the tour for how he delivered with Ireland this last 6N, but he fluffed his chance on the Lions stage. Big time.

I have great hope for the Autumn. Bring on the Aussies and the ABs! And the Argies for that matter. Who'll be Wales' other opposition? Tonga or Samoa possibly IIRC.

I was getting tired of rugby altogether after some pretty heavy saturation from the RWC till now, but the Lions have cheered me up.

All the same, a nice break is in order.
 
I wonder what would have happened if Ferris wasn't injured, I thought he was a massive loss.

eta: my player of the tournament is Kearney, so solid under those high balls, caught almost everything and used it well.

Ferris was a big, big loss, IMHO. He provides the dog that makes Heaslip so successful for Ireland, and would have done the same for the Lions.

Fair call on Kearney, he was immense:)
 
This tour showed him up as a one-dimensional player. I struggle to call him a coward when I remember his face getting twatted by the fisty Aussie chap: that was enough to make a man hang up his boots and was itself a pretty cowardly act.

I don't:

However, tackling just doesn't seem to be his bag. He deserved his place on the tour for how he delivered with Ireland this last 6N, but he fluffed his chance on the Lions stage. Big time.

Indeed not:
http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/m...king-to-patent-unique-tackling-technique.html



I have great hope for the Autumn. Bring on the Aussies and the ABs! And the Argies for that matter. Who'll be Wales' other opposition? Tonga or Samoa possibly IIRC.

Wales looking good. When you think we have the likes of Ian Evans, Peel, Henson, Duncan Jones, Delve, Shanks and Halfpenny to come in, and upcomers like Tom James and Warburton, we're looking very, very good. Big blow that Adam's out for six months, though.
 
Quite right. I just hope that Gats moves us on from the style of the last 6N. Tedious rugby that was.

May have been tedious, but that style won your first grand slam since 1948. England became world champions with a forward dominated kicking game. You play to your strengths not to some idealistic romantic notion of how the game should be played.
 
May have been tedious, but that style won your first grand slam since 1948. England became world champions with a forward dominated kicking game. You play to your strengths not to some idealistic romantic notion of how the game should be played.

Wales Grand Slams 1908, 1909, 1911, 1950, 1952, 1971, 1976, 1978, 2005, 2008:confused:
 
May have been tedious, but that style won your first grand slam since 1948. England became world champions with a forward dominated kicking game. You play to your strengths not to some idealistic romantic notion of how the game should be played.

Just to correct you, Gats is the Welsh coach and not Irish. Secondly it was Ireland's first ever Grand Slam!
 
Just to correct you, Gats is the Welsh coach and not Irish. Secondly it was Ireland's first ever Grand Slam!

Oopps my bad Inf Castro was talking about O'Gara, a forward based kicking game, grand slams and I just added up 1 + 1 and got totally the wrong number. But my point about a forward based kicking games winning 6 nations is still valid.
 
The scene takes you to the Scarlets-Munster quarter final of the HC two (three?) years ago. Wellies is agressively rucking a Munster player who is (surprise surprise) lying like a six-foot-long used condom over the ball. Onan sees his chance for masculine glory and picks on the player least likely to react in the entire world: Stephen Jones. He hauls the Duke of Wellington off the back of the ruck once the ball has been shifted and proceeds to to angry-face-pushy-pushy in the hope of looking hard in front of his team and the cameras. What happens next is the closest thing I've ever seen to one of the cute, furry things in Gremlins turn into a killer, lizard thing. Wellies' eyes turn to the eyes of a wolf and he starts advancing on the shocked Onan with grim intent. You can see the inflated belligerence of Onan start to rapidly dissipate as he realises that Wellies means menaces, and he backs down faster than lightening, hoping against hope that the ref will intervene sufficiently quickly to save his sorry arse.

One of my favourite moments in rugby. Watch again :)
 
From your list above bendeus, you boys do look strong.

Given the way you (and I) think Wales need to play to be at their best, do you agree you boys need an open wing forward of MW quality to make it work?

If you do is there somebody coming through to take his place? If not what do you reckon?

Pissed so stay with me - When I was a kid my Dad and I, weather at a local game, an International, or watching on Rugby on TV, we'd look out for the open wing forward, a position he played and I went on to play. I bonded with my dad debating the + or - of various open side wing forwards and the overall importance of one to a team. :)

I rang him Saturday evening in his local and when he answered I said "What about that?" He replied "one of the best ever". We weren't talking about the game of course, we were talking about Martyn Williams.
 
I don't get your point on that one?

The tackle ones are fair play, the man can't tackle. I don't blame him too much for that, he's just not big enough.

That's no excuse. Watch the smaller Shane Williams, Jason Robinson, Leigh Halfpenny tackle a player. He bottles his tackles completely; attempts to bounce off them using his head, doesn't attempt to slow them until the bigger units arrive, doesn't put his all into a basic, defensive necessity. I fully blame him for it.
 
That's no excuse. Watch the smaller Shane Williams, Jason Robinson, Leigh Halfpenny tackle a player. He bottles his tackles completely; attempts to bounce off them using his head, doesn't attempt to slow them until the bigger units arrive, doesn't put his all into a basic, defensive necessity. I fully blame him for it.

the blame lies with McGeechan. (sincerely hope its not Gats) No Nugget in first two tests. No Hook. And playing Byrne in the first test when he has been off it for a while (injury and all)

Tom James should have gone too.
 
That's no excuse. Watch the smaller Shane Williams, Jason Robinson, Leigh Halfpenny tackle a player. He bottles his tackles completely; attempts to bounce off them using his head, doesn't attempt to slow them until the bigger units arrive, doesn't put his all into a basic, defensive necessity. I fully blame him for it.

Leaving all the "Onan v Wellies" and our usual banter aside I genuinely don't know about that. An outhalf lines up tackles differently to the 3 wingers you mention and "bouncing off them using his head" would seem more madness than cowardly. I can't see a clear replay of the end of the second test on youtube but it does seem he steams in and trys his best.

I'm very uncomfortable with calling anybody on a rugby pitch trying to play the game a coward. Burger is a coward. ROG has become the best player he can be given his pysique and skills. Limited? Of course. Coward? Not in my view in any way at all.
 
From your list above bendeus, you boys do look strong.

Aye. Your boys aren't exactly bare in the cupboard right now, though, and I've a suspicion that your coach is better.

Given the way you (and I) think Wales need to play to be at their best, do you agree you boys need an open wing forward of MW quality to make it work?

Utterly. There has to be that link player for us to flow. Martyn comes from a fantastic tradition of footballing Welsh sevens

If you do is there somebody coming through to take his place? If not what do you reckon?

This kid. He's played all across the backrow, but looks like he may well end up at 7. He hasn't quite got the terrier-like physique of Nugget, but has fantastic skills for his age. Ben Lewis is another prospect. I'm fairly resigned to the fact that there will be a bit of a gap in succession, though. Martyn will not be replaced by somebody nearing the height of their powers unless he can be managed through to the next WC.

Pissed so stay with me - When I was a kid my Dad and I, weather at a local game, an International, or watching on Rugby on TV, we'd look out for the open wing forward, a position he played and I went on to play. I bonded with my dad debating the + or - of various open side wing forwards and the overall importance of one to a team. :)

I rang him Saturday evening in his local and when he answered I said "What about that?" He replied "one of the best ever". We weren't talking about the game of course, we were talking about Martyn Williams.

You frequently shame me with your binocularity, mate, and fair dos to you, you were calling for Nugget at 7 before the Lions began even when another great openside, Wallace, was in competition for the jersey, and was one of your own. Yes, the guy is a fucking god. What he has given to Wales over the years has been phenomenal. Quite simply, without him we would not have won the slams of '05 and '08. He's a modern legend that any true fan of the game cannot help but admire. Vision, balance, tenacity, he has it all. Look at the tackle area, who's there first protecting the ruck: Martyn. Look at the half or full breaks, who's there on the shoulder of the ball carrier: Martyn, look at the opposition ball carrier, who makes the tackle, gets up, rips the ball in one motion: Martyn, who's disrupting their scrum half, who's there at first receiver when the s/h is at the base of a ruck, who's putting in a very decent, clearing box kick when under pressure, who does the deft chip, the beautifully weighted miss pass, etc, etc. He makes me go misty eyed, and then those eyes turn red with fury when I think about the last two Lions tours. Geech I can just about forgive - he played Wallace in a desparate attempt to balance Croft when he should have played Wally at 6 and Nugget at 7 - Woodward never. If they'd played Wallace, Heaslip, Nugget, we'd have won, IMO.
 
the blame lies with McGeechan. (sincerely hope its not Gats) No Nugget in first two tests. No Hook. And playing Byrne in the first test when he has been off it for a while (injury and all)

Tom James should have gone too.

I think McGeechan picked the right teams. Only for injuries we'd have won the second test and in the first test the ref killed us.

What would you have thought if the winning third test team jogged out for the first test?:eek:
 
Leaving all the "Onan v Wellies" and our usual banter aside I genuinely don't know about that. An outhalf lines up tackles differently to the 3 wingers you mention and "bouncing off them using his head" would seem more madness than cowardly. I can't see a clear replay of the end of the second test on youtube but it does seem he steams in and trys his best.

I'm very uncomfortable with calling anybody on a rugby pitch trying to play the game a coward. Burger is a coward. ROG has become the best player he can be given his pysique and skills. Limited? Of course. Coward? Not in my view in any way at all.

Banter aside, you're right to a degree. The Irish are rallying round O'Gara, as they properly should, the rest of the British Isles are castigating him, as they would be expected to.

The poor bastard knows what he's done - he's lost us a series. By any means of measurement he's pretty responsible. He knows this and will live with it for the rest of his career.

I do, however, think that O'Gara does not have, shall we say, heart. No, he's not a coward; fuck me, I wouldn't even get on the same pitch as Bakkies Botha or Burger, but I do think he fails to give everything physically when it is required of him. His tackling 'style' is laughable - he drops his head and bounces off the opposition. He could try and hang on to the player, slow him down, disrupt his running by going low. He does none of these things and instead gets steamrollered, with predictable results.

Here he is against Contepomi in a crucial game:



Here he is again against the smaller, lighter Shane Williams:


Here he is against the 7 from the emerging Bokke:



Here he is in the tackle against Fourie - around 0:52



The same thing again and again. He can't/won't commit, won't put his body on the line. Instead he just tries to look interested and gets rolled over. This is either an abject failure of technique that boggles the mind at this level, or it's a deeper issue. The last was the worst. Fourie's a big guy, but all O'Gara had to do was slow him for half a second. Spikey Pikey Mikey would have done the rest. Just half a second, and we'd probably have won the game. He couldn't/wouldn't. He's a test Lion, FFS. Wearing the shirt with that badge. He doesn't try his best when playing for a team that demands nothing but the best.
 
I think McGeechan picked the right teams. Only for injuries we'd have won the second test and in the first test the ref killed us.

What would you have thought if the winning third test team jogged out for the first test?:eek:

It all boils down to imponderables.

And its all hindsight now.

But you are right, I thought that (third test) was the worst Lions I've ever seen.

But, we lost the series by tiny margins. Nugget and the balance that he provides would quite possibly have tipped it for us.

Tom James might have scored the tries Monye didn't.

But at the end of the day it was spine-tingling rugby. Faith restored for me after a shitty 6 nations.
 
Aye. Your boys aren't exactly bare in the cupboard right now, though, and I've a suspicion that your coach is better.



Utterly. There has to be that link player for us to flow. Martyn comes from a fantastic tradition of footballing Welsh sevens



This kid. He's played all across the backrow, but looks like he may well end up at 7. He hasn't quite got the terrier-like physique of Nugget, but has fantastic skills for his age. Ben Lewis is another prospect. I'm fairly resigned to the fact that there will be a bit of a gap in succession, though. Martyn will not be replaced by somebody nearing the height of their powers unless he can be managed through to the next WC.



You frequently shame me with your binocularity, mate, and fair dos to you, you were calling for Nugget at 7 before the Lions began even when another great openside, Wallace, was in competition for the jersey, and was one of your own. Yes, the guy is a fucking god. What he has given to Wales over the years has been phenomenal. Quite simply, without him we would not have won the slams of '05 and '08. He's a modern legend that any true fan of the game cannot help but admire. Vision, balance, tenacity, he has it all. Look at the tackle area, who's there first protecting the ruck: Martyn. Look at the half or full breaks, who's there on the shoulder of the ball carrier: Martyn, look at the opposition ball carrier, who makes the tackle, gets up, rips the ball in one motion: Martyn, who's disrupting their scrum half, who's there at first receiver when the s/h is at the base of a ruck, who's putting in a very decent, clearing box kick when under pressure, who does the deft chip, the beautifully weighted miss pass, etc, etc. He makes me go misty eyed, and then those eyes turn red with fury when I think about the last two Lions tours. Geech I can just about forgive - he played Wallace in a desparate attempt to balance Croft when he should have played Wally at 6 and Nugget at 7 - Woodward never. If they'd played Wallace, Heaslip, Nugget, we'd have won, IMO.

Williams is easily the best openside playing in the NH, immaculate player. The thing is, so was Neil Back, who was part of the the best international back row I've ever seen live (although I would highlight Richard Hill as the best player in that unit).

Anyway, interesting that you blame Croft, I would have said the choice of Wallace over Williams was based around the perceived need for pace - which Croft has in abundance. I'd just have picked Williams as I think he's superb, so good that he'd work in any combination.
 
Back
Top Bottom