Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
A bold opening statement.
Britain should rejoin the EU...
- Thread starter FamKa
- Start date
A bold opening statement.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Do you know, one thing I'm not seeing in your post is anything about net zero. The lp has also decided to be the party of business, perhaps you can square the circle of being the party of business and the party of the environment. Don't think starmer can tho
E2a sticking with the rhetoric will harm the environment as its just so much hot air
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Leave as voted for is yet to happen because there is a wide open land border with the EU with no controls.
People who voted leave will dismiss that reality as not relevant to something something sovereignty and hating ‘foreigners’.
People who voted leave will dismiss that reality as not relevant to something something sovereignty and hating ‘foreigners’.
From what I gather actual net zero is extremely difficult, the last 20% in particular. There’s going to have to be a reckoning about buying goods, it is unsustainable for everyone to be able to just walk into a shop or go on Amazon and get a trolley of plastic goods made in Chinese coal powered factories.
But for the first 80% there is some relatively low hanging fruit and I am quite confident Labour will make good progress on this and the UK will be a relative world leader.
Change my post to “reducing greenhouse gas emissions” replacing “net zero”. Is there a climate change thread? Should move the discussion there?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
A frog in a well
TopCat
Putin fanboy
You are funny
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Peculiar or haha?
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
The cold never bothered me anyway.
The one thing I’m sure of is I just do not care about polling and focus groups. There’s way too much attention to that already. With a 170 seat majority and 4+ years until the next election, surely now more than ever Labour should be thinking about what reforms and changes will improve the country and not worry about how they play with the public.
They basically lied from the right saying they wouldn’t increase taxes and then have done so, which was predictable. Nevertheless £70bn more public spending from taxes and borrowing is imo what the country needed. I think planning reform is a magic bullet for many of the UK’s ills, and care reform is something of a magic bullet for the NHS. I would rather they just got on with sorting care than wait for a three year review though.
Banning puberty blockers was definitely the right move. Assisted dying was a private members bill but still could’ve gone differently if Labour had opposed. They stopped the NHS strikes with the pay rise. The smoking ban outside pubs was a bad idea but they sensibly reversed. A lot of it is “we are announcing a plan for x” “we will do a review into y” but I do honestly think they will get their teeth into some of the important stuff.
Can we for one moment not obsess over what leave voters in Hartlepool think about everything.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Something about reading the room...
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I suppose speaking the truth is sometimes funny because the unexpected can be a fundamental of comedy, and to the deluded the truth can be unexpected.
Do you all think puberty blockers are great then? I don’t know much about the politics of this forum. Is it mostly left with a mix of right? (I don’t think puberty blockers are a left/right issue mind you). Genuine question; enlighten me
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Hi, new person.
Puberty blockers aren’t banned for kids who are experiencing early puberty. This is deemed right and proper. But for kids who are experiencing distress at developing in ways that cause them psychological suffering, they have to be banned. Why?
Puberty blockers do not cause permanent changes. If you stop taking them, puberty resumes. That’s what happens when prescribed for “early onset” puberty. And remember in that case they are a “good thing”.
PTK
Paul Kegan
If you are love giving travel advice so much, become a travel agent.If you love coffee so much move to Colombia
PTK
Paul Kegan
Albania is becoming a regional powerhouse?
Hi Danny. The reason puberty blockers are disastrously bad is because most (80-90%) gender dysphoric children find they are no longer gender dysphoric after going through puberty. Of those who start puberty blockers, almost all (98%+) go on to take cross sex hormones, which can cause infertility, make people never able to have an orgasm and many other serious, little researched, lifelong health problems.
I don’t think children can meaningfully consent to never being able to have children or an orgasm. Puberty blockers are a fast track to cross sex hormones which cause these monumentally significant health problems, and most of these kids would’ve not being trans anyway if they had gone through puberty normally.
The Cass Report made this clear. Labour, the Tories, the NHS and the overwhelming majority of doctors agree that puberty blockers should be banned. Other countries are coming to the same conclusions. It is imo hugely damaging to the Greens’ hugely important environmental message that they still seem to be in favour of puberty blockers.
To be clear - I know gender dysphoria is real, I think adults should be given all the medical support they need to transition, for free on the NHS.
PTK
Paul Kegan
How is the Labour government defining net zero? Does it support geological net zero?
gosub
~#
Except that's bollocks. Common matket/EC/EEC/EU. Every single change of letters marked a moving of goal posts with no real effort to consult or take the public with them
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I agree with you Rixa: thinking about reform and improving the material conditions of ordinary people should be more important than polling.
Unfortunately, Labour have done neither.
In respect of polling and popularity a series of poor decisions has seen a rapid and existential collapse in support.
I’d highlight the means testing of winter fuel allowance, the decision not to compensate the WASPI women and the refusal to lift the two child benefits cap as examples of policy which are witheringly unpopular and economically backward and which will further immiserate ordinary people.
In line with your suggestion that Labour should do what’s right and necessary - rather than what is popular or which appeases powerful interest groups (like the market) I’d draw attention to the Budget. This is surely the key metric for Labour supporters to assess the extent to which their government is taking the necessary steps to “improve the country”.
If we agree that’s a fair challenge I’d ask 3 questions:
- to what extent does the budget create the conditions for economic growth. A number of U75 posters will ask at this point ‘what type of economic growth and for the benefit of whom? But let’s set that aside for a moment, and merely answer the question. Does the budget create the conditions for economic growth?
- Secondly, let’s ask a simple question. To what extent did the budget set in train a process to reduce inequality in the UK?
- Finally, let’s ask some more foundational questions about the direction of travel. Did the budget:
- Set out a plan for inclusive growth that confronts inequality?
- Redefine success as it has come to be defined by neoliberalism: away from education and financial achievement?
- Address the meaning and future of work under late capitalism and which has meaning to citizens outside of the professional managerial class, specifically those in rural areas, dying coastal towns, the peripheries of the cities, the dead zones of surplus population?
- Recognise the centrality of a vibrant national economy as part of the creation of stronger communities and identities?
If only the political class had obsessed a bit more over what leave voters in Hartlepool think and not dismissed them as low information nativists.
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danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Sorry, but wow.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Are you a comedy poster? Or an AI bot?
PTK
Paul Kegan
How is that an argument against puberty blockers? That impressive percentage is not "proof" that the taking of puberty blockers causes people to go on to take cross-sex hormones.
If it was revealed that 98% of people who take a certain painkiller to relieve knee pain go on to have knee replacement operations, that would not be proof that, if they had never taken the painkiller, they would not have had a knee replacement operation.
If it was revealed that 98% of people who take a certain painkiller to relieve knee pain go on to have knee replacement operations, that would not be proof that, if they had never taken the painkiller, they would not have had a knee replacement operation.
It could be the case that the 98% to whom you refer would have gone on to take cross-sex hormones if they had not taken puberty blockers to begin with.
Does the taking of puberty blockers cause the taking of cross-sex hormones? If not, then the fact that many who take the former go on to take the latter is not an argument against the taking of the former.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Eh?
What’s bollocks?
Don’t go there. Trans issues have caused massive ruckus.
I don't recall that the issue of the open land border was ever discussed, let alone voted for, in the referendum campaign.
Most of the interviews I have seen with Leave voters - anecdotal statement, I know - mention immigration as the single compelling issue for them. It's ironic then, that the Dublin Regulation, the legal framework that would have allowed undocumented immigrants to have been returned to their point of departure in the EU, was lost when we left. Another issue not explained or discussed in the referendum campaign.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
We can't just adopt the Euro, we would have to join the European Central Bank first and I can't see any UK politicians going for that never mind just Bad Enoch and Frog Lord, so we would have to negotiate keeping the pound which given the relative size of the UK economy is not an impossible suggestion. Thatcher's budget rebate has no doubt gone forever but there would be so much to negotiate such as fisheries, agriculture, the galileo military GPS, what happens to any other trade deals we've signed with other countries in the meantime, the list is endless. It's not like "We've changed our minds can we come back please? Sure no problem!"
And all this work gets wasted as soon as we get another Tory PM which will probably be sooner than the end of the dickering.
I think we will go back eventually, we'll have no choice as we become less and less relevant in a world in which other countries will catch us up and overtake us but it isn't going to be soon probably a couple of decades no matter how many petitions or marches there are.
And all this work gets wasted as soon as we get another Tory PM which will probably be sooner than the end of the dickering.
I think we will go back eventually, we'll have no choice as we become less and less relevant in a world in which other countries will catch us up and overtake us but it isn't going to be soon probably a couple of decades no matter how many petitions or marches there are.
As I said, several studies have shown that around 80% of children who say they are gender dysphoric before puberty, are no longer gender dysphoric after going through puberty. So yes, taking puberty blockers does cause the taking of cross sex hormones. In your analogy, it would be like using medication to treat a knee complaint that in most cases would’ve gone away without any treatment.
It’s also worth adding that it’s not at all clear that puberty blockers -> cross sex hormones is a good outcome for the 20% who would still have been gender dysphoric after puberty. They will still have all the huge lifelong health problems. There have been no long term control group studies into the effects of these medications. Thankfully after the Cass Report that will happen.
The left needs to drop the issue of puberty blockers. You guys have lost the argument. The overwhelming majority of the public can see that the pro puberty blockers position is obviously wrong, it’s harmful to the broader progressive cause to keep defending it. More important issues where the left is correct, like climate change, get lumped in with it in the minds of the public.
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