Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[Pickman's model]

Got much experience touring in a band in Europe, have you?

My experience has nothing to do with the matter, it is a simple lie to suggest there were no border controls while the UK was in the eu

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The tweet actually blames 'Brexit legislation leaving England'. How does legislation even leave a country?

yeah. Thickie tweeter. Clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.

Or maybe it was just badly phrased.

No, definitely a thickie.

 

[Santino]

yeah. Thickie tweeter. Clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.

Or maybe it was just badly phrased.

No, definitely a thickie.

Are you serious?

 

[Santino]

I think an experienced touring band knows more about transporting legislation internationally than anyone on this thread.

 

[kabbes]

This whole line of argument is bizarre.

If you're a fan of Brexit, own it.

Brexit means border controls and border controls can and do fuck up. Some innocent people will suffer because of that, and clearly that's not ideal but it's worth it for the wider benefits it confers...

... or something.

But not this.

So all mismanagement of all public affairs from now on can simply be pinned on Brexit and looked away from?

Everything is interrelated. It’s a complex world. There comes a point, though, when there has been enough time and opportunity to build robust alternatives to the old processes. Simply blaming everything that happens on the loss of those old processes is letting those who should have built the new ones off the hook. It should be possible to allow for the basic movement of equipment through a port without needing permanent open borders with the country the equipment is travelling to.

 

[andysays]

So all mismanagement of all public affairs from now on can simply be pinned on Brexit and looked away from?

Everything is interrelated. It’s a complex world. There comes a point, though, when there has been enough time and opportunity to build robust alternatives to the old processes. Simply blaming everything that happens on the loss of those old processes is letting those who should have built the new ones off the hook. It should be possible to allow for the basic movement of equipment through a port without needing permanent open borders with the country the equipment is travelling to.

And to be fair, the band or their management may have attempted to organise their tour taking into account the new situation, including, for instance, an extra day to transport their gear in case it got delayed, and found that it still didn't arrive by the time they needed it.

I can have sympathy for the band in that situation, and I can understand the frustration which might have led someone connected with the band to post that tweet blaming "Brexit legislation".

What I have an issue with is posting that tweet as if it is absolute evidence that the delay was simply down to Brexit and nothing else, and then dismissing any attempt to discuss the issue, including misrepresenting the position of some of those attempt to engage in that discussion.

 

[kabbes]

Yeah. And to be clear, when I was talking about blame in that last post, I was pointing squarely at the government, the ferry companies, the port authorities and so on. I was not evening thinking about the band management.

 

[Pickman's model]

Got much experience touring in a band across Europe, have you?

I know who I'm more inclined to believe between a working, experienced touring band and an armchair commentator.

Love the crafty post reply edit

 

[Yossarian]

So all mismanagement of all public affairs from now on can simply be pinned on Brexit and looked away from?

Everything is interrelated. It’s a complex world. There comes a point, though, when there has been enough time and opportunity to build robust alternatives to the old processes. Simply blaming everything that happens on the loss of those old processes is letting those who should have built the new ones off the hook. It should be possible to allow for the basic movement of equipment through a port without needing permanent open borders with the country the equipment is travelling to.

Isn't blaming the government's disastrous mishandling of Brexit the same thing as blaming Brexit?

 

[kabbes]

Isn't blaming the government's disastrous mishandling of Brexit the same thing as blaming Brexit?

Not at all. Implicit to blaming “Brexit” is pinning the blame squarely on those who voted for it. We’ve seen loads of that on this thread alone.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Not at all. Implicit to blaming “Brexit” is pinning the blame squarely on those who voted for it. We’ve seen loads of that on this thread alone.

I’m more than happy to blame those that voted for it. On account of them, errr, voting for it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

P&O, computer systems, something something…

 

[kabbes]

I’m more than happy to blame those that voted for it. On account of them, errr, voting for it.

There we go. That’s the difference.

 

[rutabowa]

I’m more than happy to blame those that voted for it. On account of them, errr, voting for it.

Where does that get you though? It's just a waste of time and energy to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think an experienced touring band knows more about transporting legislation internationally than anyone on this thread.

The van filled with halsbury's statutes and volumes of European law alongside the guitars etc

 

[Yossarian]

Not at all. Implicit to blaming “Brexit” is pinning the blame squarely on those who voted for it. We’ve seen loads of that on this thread alone.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to use "Brexit" to refer to the entire Brexit process, including its execution, which was carried out with a lack of competence that I don't think many voters on either side were expecting in 2016.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Where does that get you though?

I get to sit on a throne made of “we fucking told you this would happen”

 

[kabbes]

Everything this government and subsequent ones forever more do to fuck things up can be blamed on those thickies that answered a massively complex and emotive issue with “yes” when given the option of “yes” or “no”. (Or was it no for Brexit? I forget now)

 

[kabbes]

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to use "Brexit" to refer to the entire Brexit process, including its execution, which was carried out with a lack of competence that I don't think many voters on either side were expecting in 2016.

This is disingenuous. You have evidence right here on this page that the blame is being allocated right at those who simply expressed their honest opinion when asked if they wanted to be part of the EU or not. There was no inevitability to this version of Brexit being the one that played out. In fact, I still have the Brexit leaflet from the government itself, which claimed that some kind of trading union would be the most likely aftermath. And even with this version, the government have had years now to sort out operational issues.

 

[rutabowa]

I get to sit on a throne made of “we fucking told you this would happen”

It doesn't look very comfortable

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It doesn't look very comfortable

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

There was no inevitability to this version of Brexit

lol, it being a complete clusterfuck was as clear and inevitable as the tide coming in. But, “project fear”, remember?

 

[Yossarian]

Everything this government and subsequent ones forever more do to fuck things up can be blamed on those thickies that answered a massively complex and emotive issue with “yes” when given the option of “yes” or “no”. (Or was it no for Brexit? I forget now)

I think it should be possible to criticize the way Brexit has been implemented, referring to it as "Brexit," without people getting in a huff and saying they're being accused of being stupid in 2016, though clearly my argument here is not being helped by people saying "Told you so, stupid Brexit voters!"

 

[Yossarian]

This is disingenuous. You have evidence right here on this page that the blame is being allocated right at those who simply expressed their honest opinion when asked if they wanted to be part of the EU or not. There was no inevitability to this version of Brexit being the one that played out. In fact, I still have the Brexit leaflet from the government itself, which claimed that some kind of trading union would be the most likely aftermath. And even with this version, the government have had years now to sort out operational issues.

Maybe it should be referred to as "Tory Brexit," but people seem to get huffy about that term as well.

 

[killer b]

Thrones are for cunts, who'd want one?

 

[editor]

Love the crafty post reply edit

Fuck me, you're desperate to try and score petty points here rather than address the issue.

There was nothing 'crafty' about it. I hit 'send' by accident and corrected it. And that all happened in less than a minute.

 

[Pickman's model]

Fuck me, you're desperate to try and score petty points here rather than address the issue.

There was nothing 'crafty' about it. I hit 'send' by accident and corrected it. And that all happened in less than a minute.

I have addressed the issue. You've resorted to your auld tactic of saying nothing about what I've said and using an ad hominem to attack me rather than the substance of the post.

 

[Pickman's model]

It doesn't look very comfortable

It is like the iron throne of the seven kingdoms

 

[editor]

It's got so bad that the music charity Help Musicians has been set up to provide funds to give UK-based artists advice and planning tips regarding touring Europe in the post-Brexit climate.

The scheme explained: “Through this support, the charity aims to help musicians re-build their careers post-restrictions and provide practical advice to musicians wishing to tour.”

Continuing: “The service will help them better understand the complex requirements from working/traveling abroad, and mitigate against the financial risks now associated with touring, especially in Europe. Calls can cover the likes of visas, work permits, carnets, customs regulations, rules relating to movement and more.”

The organisation’s CEO James Ainscough added: “It is vital that musicians start touring again, at home and abroad, to get back to live performance, grow their fanbase and earn much-needed income. Tours are costly and risky, so our £250k will support musicians who are ready to take the plunge and drive their careers forward.”

Previously we spoke to Tim Burgess about this very issue and he commented: “My friend Kiko is an Italian van driver who lived in London. he used to pick up bands, and take them across the border, to go to France, and then drive through Italy, and into Germany, and all that.”

Burgess continued: “A band without a record deal would be able to do a tour, it would have to be economically, but they’d be able to do it. I think all that is not going to really be possible now.”

Concluding: “There’s a massive waiting list of vinyl now, and Brexit on top of all the other problems just makes it a little bit more difficult,” Burgess continued. “The reality is what I was expecting. I thought if it was to go through, then it’s going to be a shitstorm, and it is.

‘Help Musicians’ set to fund Brexit artist advice scheme

The music charity Help Musicians is set to provide a fund that will give UK-based artists advice and tips regarding touring Europe in the post-Brexit climate.

faroutmagazine.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to use "Brexit" to refer to the entire Brexit process, including its execution, which was carried out with a lack of competence that I don't think many voters on either side were expecting in 2016.

how was it incompetent? what should have been differently? how is it different from your expectations? genuinely interested