Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[philosophical]

Are we ever - and bear in mind we're nearly 6 years after the referendum and over two since we left the EU - remainers conceding it's the idiocy and venality of the Tories and their shitty handling of Brexit that's the problem, not the people who voted leave on a yes/no question?

I disagree. Isn’t it rather patronising to imply those voting leave didn’t vote that way quite deliberately?
Whatever the Tories have handled, and what people now choose to call ‘Brexit’, is not what people deliberately voted for which was ‘leave’.
How can you say ‘we left the EU’ when there is a completely open 300 mile land border between the UK and the EU with over 200 crossing points? To suggest that means ‘leave’ baffles me and you may be kidding yourself that the result of the referendum has been implemented or that consequences of that vote are irrelevant in particular regard to Ireland.

 

[Yossarian]

Since this debate seems unlikely to be concluded while anybody who voted in 2016 is still alive, I think people should heed the calls to keep this thread about the music industry and take the wider discussion to one of the other threads.

 

[editor]

Those articles are from 2018. The referendum was in 2016. I don't remember on the form it saying "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? But before you vote, have you considered the impact on touring musicians several years from now?"

I think this is obviously shit for musicians and I hope it can be sorted out, like a lot of the fuck ups of Brexit. I hate how badly managed it's all been, and I feel sympathy at the plight of touring musicians who may lose the financial ability to tour in the EU. But it's still the case that many people are lazily laying everything the Tories do at Leave voters. I didn't vote Tory.

Brexit was about restricting freedom of movement. And guess what? Musicians need freedom of movement to make a living.

And, again, it was fucking obvious that Brexit was going to fuck up musicians, so if you voted for this shitshow without bothering to learn about what you were actually voting for, then you're at least partly culpable, or don't give a shit about the arts industry, or view it worth sacrificing for the supposed benefits of Brexit.

Over 250 UK stars plead against Brexit – DW – 05/20/2016

Benedict Cumberbatch, Helena Bonham Carter and Jude Law are among the nearly 300 British actors, musicians and other leading arts figures to urge Britain to remain in the EU, amidst the current referendum campaigns.

www.dw.com

 

[editor]

Just listen to this fucking clueless Tory cunt

'Room for more flexibility on dealing with musicians', says Frost
LBC host Nick Ferrari asked Lord Frost whether he believes that Brexit failed musicians as many of them have been unable to tour in the EU due to Brexit red tape.

Lord Frost replied that he does not believe that Brexit failed musicians but that there is "room for flexibility" and it is "possible to make technical improvements."

 

[TopCat]

Brexit was about restricting freedom of movement. And guess what? Musicians need freedom of movement to make a living.

Brexit was a decision to leave the EU. The EU that has four pillars, freedom of movement being one of them.
Freedom of capital being one the remain supporting previously anti capitalist types try to avoid mentioning.
“ At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles: the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.”

 

[editor]

Brexit was a decision to leave the EU. The EU that has four pillars, freedom of movement being one of them.
Freedom of capital being one the remain supporting previously anti capitalist types try to avoid mentioning.
“ At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles: the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.”

You've already made it crystal clear that you were happy to kick musicians under the bus and see them lose their livelihoods in the quest for the yet to be seen glories of Brexit, but there's already a thread about that, so let's keep this thread for actual musicians who are looking for ways to get around the fucking shitshow that is Brexit for them.

PS Touring musicians need the "free movement of goods, services, capital and labour" to exist.

 

[TopCat]

You've already made it crystal clear that you were happy to kick musicians under the bus and see them lose their livelihoods in the quest for the yet to be seen glories of Brexit, but there's already a thread about that, so let's keep this thread for actual musicians who are looking for ways to get around the fucking shitshow that is Brexit for them.

PS Touring musicians need the "free movement of goods, services, capital and labour" to exist.

Most posts from you on this thread are not how to cope with the situation, top tips, collaboration etc. You just spout invective.

I’m still glad we left. Would vote leave again in a heartbeat.

 

[editor]

Most posts from you on this thread are not how to cope with the situation, top tips, collaboration etc. You just spout invective.

That's because there are no practical ways to 'cope' with most of the shit that Brexit has thrown at musicians. There's no real practical solution for most small bands trying to sell merch across Europe at the moment - and that has been discussed at length - and even experienced bigger bands are getting so screwed over that they've had to cancel shows at huge cost.

 

[TopCat]

That's because there are no practical ways to 'cope' with most of the shit that Brexit has thrown at musicians. There's no real practical solution for most small bands trying to sell merch across Europe at the moment - and that has been discussed at length - and even experienced bigger bands are getting so screwed over that they've had to cancel shows at huge cost.

So if the thread serves only as a platform for you to attack leavers.

 

[editor]

And even big theatre productions are being fucked over

In Tuesday’s Commons Culture Committee Koravos spotlighted the impact touring regulations have had on theatre.

Koravos explained that the main issue with bringing a British production over to Europe, was that while they could get permission for the Chinese production to perform in the Schengen Area (26 countries), the British one would involve a series of multiple applications to each country within the area.

Phantom of the Opera to tour Europe with Chinese production due to Brexit red tape

The British production of the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical is too complicated and expensive to bring to Europe due to the impact of Brexit.

www.classicfm.com

 

[High Voltage]

And even big theatre productions are being fucked over

Phantom of the Opera to tour Europe with Chinese production due to Brexit red tape

The British production of the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical is too complicated and expensive to bring to Europe due to the impact of Brexit.

www.classicfm.com

I've seen the mentioned in other sources before and I must be missing something "obvious"

It's my understanding that China is a "third country" and the UK is also a "third country" so both should be treated the same

UNLESS

China has got a different agreement already in place? Would that be the "obvious thing" I'm missing?

 

[Pickman's model]

I've seen the mentioned in other sources before and I must be missing something "obvious"

It's my understanding that China is a "third country" and the UK is also a "third country" so both should be treated the same

UNLESS

China has got a different agreement already in place? Would that be the "obvious thing" I'm missing?

China matters in the world

 

[Supine]

I’m still glad we left. Would vote leave again in a heartbeat.

Still keeping your benefits a secret though?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've seen the mentioned in other sources before and I must be missing something "obvious"

It's my understanding that China is a "third country" and the UK is also a "third country" so both should be treated the same

UNLESS

China has got a different agreement already in place? Would that be the "obvious thing" I'm missing?

Looks like China has a better agreement in place, yes.

Koravos explained that the main issue with bringing a British production over to Europe, was that while they could get permission for the Chinese production to perform in the Schengen Area (26 countries), the British one would involve a series of multiple applications to each country within the area.

 

[Pickman's model]

Still keeping your benefits a secret though?

Think of all the fun we've had discussing brexit over the past six years, there's a benefit

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It appears that Chinese people can apply for a Schengen work visa but UK people cannot.

If you are planning to work or study in the Schengen Area, then you will need additional documents to obtain your China Schengen Visa. For those coming to work in Europe, these include an employment contract, a current bank statement, a no objection letter from your employer at home, and an income tax return.

China Schengen Visa: How to apply | AXA Schengen

Before the U.K. left the EU, its citizens were free to live and work across the EU, including Schengen states, without gaining a work visa or residency permit for stays longer than 90 days. This changed from 1 January 2021 - meaning that like citizens of all countries outside the EU, U.K. nationals will need to apply for visas if they wish to study, work or live in the Schengen Area. This is dealt with at the national level, so you should check with the authorities in the country you are applying to.

Schengen Visa from the U.K. : application, cost, requirements

The Brexit deal really is that shit that it's easier for Chinese workers to tour the EU than for British workers.

 

[Pickman's model]

It appears that Chinese people can apply for a Schengen work visa but UK people cannot.


China Schengen Visa: How to apply | AXA Schengen


Schengen Visa from the U.K. : application, cost, requirements

The Brexit deal really is that shit that it's easier for Chinese workers to tour the EU than for British workers.

The median wage in the UK is about three times the average wage in China (£8.2k v £31k) so it's unlikely you'll find many Chinese workers tripping round Europe on their hols. So no, it's not easier for Chinese workers to tour europe

 

[The39thStep]

It appears that Chinese people can apply for a Schengen work visa but UK people cannot.


China Schengen Visa: How to apply | AXA Schengen


Schengen Visa from the U.K. : application, cost, requirements

The Brexit deal really is that shit that it's easier for Chinese workers to tour the EU than for British workers.

You get these weird anomalies, only three out of the top 10 immigrant communities in Portugal are from the EU

 

[editor]

The median wage in the UK is about three times the average wage in China (£8.2k v £31k) so it's unlikely you'll find many Chinese workers tripping round Europe on their hols. So no, it's not easier for Chinese workers to tour europe

We're not talking about holidays, for fuck's sake.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The median wage in the UK is about three times the average wage in China (£8.2k v £31k) so it's unlikely you'll find many Chinese workers tripping round Europe on their hols. So no, it's not easier for Chinese workers to tour europe

That's a bizarre post even by your standards.

It's easier for us to tour the EU on holiday than Chinese people, who need to get a tourist visa. But it's potentially a lot easier for a Chinese person to tour the EU working (for instance, as part of a musical production) than for us - just one visa does it for them.

That's the point being made here.

 

[TopCat]

Still keeping your benefits a secret though?

I have stated them umpteen times. Your just being dishonest.

 

[nogojones]

Brexit was a decision to leave the EU. The EU that has four pillars, freedom of movement being one of them.
Freedom of capital being one the remain supporting previously anti capitalist types try to avoid mentioning.
“ At the heart of the European Union sit four key principles: the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.”

Odd how capital still moves pretty freely

 

[Pickman's model]

That's a bizarre post even by your standards.

It's easier for us to tour the EU on holiday than Chinese people, who need to get a tourist visa. But it's potentially a lot easier for a Chinese person to tour the EU working (for instance, as part of a musical production) than for us - just one visa does it for them.

That's the point being made here.

How swiftly you change your tune from Chinese workers. Chinese musical productions doubtless sponsored by the Chinese state - bear no comparison to the bands under discussion. E2a don't suppose any groups akin to editor's get anywhere near europe

 

[Pickman's model]

We're not talking about holidays, for fuck's sake.

How you're thrown by the use of a synonym

 

[littlebabyjesus]

How swiftly you change your tune from Chinese workers. Chinese musical productions doubtless sponsored by the Chinese state - bear no comparison to the bands under discussion. E2a don't suppose any groups akin to editor's get anywhere near europe

wtf?

I said 'Chinese workers' because I was talking about people working. If I'd wanted to talk about Chinese tourists, I'd have said, you know, 'Chinese tourists'.

As for relevance, last I looked, most musical productions employed musicians. And this particular case concerns a musical production touring the EU. It's pretty much on point in terms of relevance. The UK doesn't have a Schengen-wide work visa arrangement with the EU at the moment. China does. And this is one of the impacts of that situation.

 

[Pickman's model]

wtf?

I said 'Chinese workers' because I was talking about people working. If I'd wanted to talk about Chinese tourists, I'd have said, you know, 'Chinese tourists'.

As for relevance, last I looked, most musical productions employed musicians. And this particular case concerns a musical production touring the EU. It's pretty much on point in terms of relevance. The UK doesn't have a Schengen-wide work visa arrangement with the EU at the moment. China does. And this is one of the impacts of that situation.

Yeh and potentially if they're in the Chinese Communist party's good books Chinese bands can tour the EU. But there are I suggest much larger obstacles to a Chinese equivalent to the monochrome set getting anywhere near europe than the visa arrangements in the eu. As much chance of that happening as an Argentine band touring the falklands

 

[editor]

Yeh and potentially if they're in the Chinese Communist party's good books Chinese bands can tour the EU. But there are I suggest much larger obstacles to a Chinese equivalent to the monochrome set getting anywhere near europe than the visa arrangements in the eu. As much chance of that happening as an Argentine band touring the falklands

The actual point being that Brexit has resulted in the loss of work and income for UK crew and performers, to the benefit of Chinese crew and performers.

 

[kabbes]

So what we’re saying is that it isn’t actually necessary for a country to be in political Union with the EU for that country to reach a sensible agreement with the EU about performers’ working rights?

Well I never

 

[Pickman's model]

The actual point being that Brexit has resulted in the loss of work and income for UK crew and performers, to the benefit of Chinese crew and performers.

Please point me to the Chinese pop and rock bands making hay of the difficulties their British equivalents are facing

 

[editor]

Please point me to the Chinese pop and rock bands making hay of the difficulties their British equivalents are facing

No thanks. But I've just pointed you in the direction of how Brexit is adversely affecting performers, musicians and touring road crew.

You are aware that there are numerous musicians employed in this production yes? And they've now lost their jobs because of Brexit?