Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[Artaxerxes]

 

[kebabking]

Does this mean we'll have to go to, gulp... the provinces daaaahling?

 

[bimble]

Yeah, fuck the theatre, only Waitrose people care about that. If no European actors dancers musicians come over here to tour either then that’s even better, the posh foreign wankers. Am I doing it right?

 

[Pickman's model]

Does this mean we'll have to go to, gulp... the provinces daaaahling?

They do tour the provinces as here Hedda Gabler on Tour | Touring the UK and Ireland to March 2019

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's fascinating to read these threads, it's like a switch was flipped on 1st January and automatically any problems with brexit are now solely dismissed as middle class fantasy.

I'd just like to discuss actual effects of this shit rather than descend into strawman Waitrose Vs Racists circlejerking.

Fuck it, I'm out, threads going on ignore.

And any problems due to Covid are all Brexit related. The National Theatre isn’t touring anywhere for the foreseeable and it’s got nothing at all to do with Brexit.

 

[editor]

And any problems due to Covid are all Brexit related. The National Theatre isn’t touring anywhere for the foreseeable and it’s got nothing at all to do with Brexit.

Ah, so you're going to pretend they didn't say this:

The National Theatre says it can no longer tour in Europe as post-Brexit cost & paperwork means it's "currently not financially viable"

Touring companies usually plan at least a year ahead, and they've made it very clear how Brexit is going to negatively to impact them.

 

[rutabowa]

I didn't realise the National Theatre ever toured Europe! Obviously it is pretty rare for uk theatre productions to go to europe or vice versa (language barrier). Things like cirque du Soleil excepted. Would be bad if it was made impossible though. In the detail of the story the NT just say they are postponing one tour they had planned for the end of this year waiting for clarity, not "we are never touring in europe again" though.

“We're awaiting further details of ongoing negotiations in this area and hope that in future we will be able to return to mainland Europe, however due to the amount of time needed to plan a tour we're not able to commit to European touring until we have clarity around these points".

So the future deal is the question.

 

[killer b]

Obviously it is pretty rare for uk theatre productions to go to europe or vice versa (language barrier).

it isn't that rare tbf. everyone on the continent speaks english, and Shakespeare is a set text in some countries - my bro did a couple of tours as part of a shakespeare production in the early 00s

 

[editor]

Penny is a twat and loon (agreed) therefore adverts are great and marketing essential industry underpinning great altruistic muso’s?

Literally no one is saying adverts are 'great' but they can absolutely form an essential part of promoting successful events and gigs. Same as marketing.

Just about all but the smallest bands, venues, festivals and events will use and benefit from good advertising and marketing, unless you prefer your events empty with no one getting paid and venues closing down.

 

[editor]

I didn't realise the National Theatre ever toured Europe! Obviously it is pretty rare for uk theatre productions to go to europe or vice versa (language barrier).

No, it happens a lot and it's not just big productions.

 

[rutabowa]

Is european touring a vital part of economically supporting the theatre industry though, like it is for the music industry? My aunt + uncle have been professional actors since the 60s and I cant remember them ever doing much in europe. Tours were around the UK mainly, there is a much better and more stable network of theatre venues than there is music venues.

I mean the National Theatre isn't in any way under threat because of not being able to tour europe! They are probably saving money not doing it, not losing money.

The idea that "everyone on the continent speaks english" is umm not reality.

 

[editor]

Is european touring a vital part of economically supporting the theatre industry though, like it is for the music industry? My aunt + uncle have been professional actors since the 60s and I cant remember them ever doing much in europe. Tours were around the UK mainly, there is a much better and more stable network of theatre venues than there is music venues.

I mean the National Theatre isn't in any way under threat because of not being able to tour europe! They are probably saving money not doing it, not losing money.

What does it matter? If Brexit has made those tours financially unviable, then that means musicians, riggers, crew, tour managers, sound engineers, lighting operators, truckers, musicians etc are all going to be out of work.

The idea that "everyone on the continent speaks english" is umm not reality.

They clearly don't all speak English - although an awful lot do - but that doesn't stop them enjoying English language bands.

More about their work here:; National Theatre Annual Review

And a good point:

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I didn't realise the National Theatre ever toured Europe! Obviously it is pretty rare for uk theatre productions to go to europe or vice versa (language barrier). Things like cirque du Soleil excepted. Would be bad if it was made impossible though. In the detail of the story the NT just say they are postponing one tour they had planned for the end of this year waiting for clarity, not "we are never touring in europe again" though.

“We're awaiting further details of ongoing negotiations in this area and hope that in future we will be able to return to mainland Europe, however due to the amount of time needed to plan a tour we're not able to commit to European touring until we have clarity around these points".

So the future deal is the question.

That more or less sums up the situation at the moment. They panicked and signed an absurd deal that doesn't work. Various things will remain fucked up until they fix it. And fixing it will inevitably involve closer alignment with the EU on various matters. And the fact that we're in a pandemic is rather masking the extent of the fuck up at the moment, while it also contributed massively to allowing the fuck up to happen with minimal democratic scrutiny.

 

[Supine]

Is european touring a vital part of economically supporting the theatre industry though, like it is for the music industry? My aunt + uncle have been professional actors since the 60s and I cant remember them ever doing much in europe. Tours were around the UK mainly, there is a much better and more stable network of theatre venues than there is music venues.

I mean the National Theatre isn't in any way under threat because of not being able to tour europe! They are probably saving money not doing it, not losing money.

The idea that "everyone on the continent speaks english" is umm not reality.

European touring by UK artists is part of the cultural fabric of Europe. Lots of it used to happen and hopefully still will when covid allows. It will be more difficult though.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ah, so you're going to pretend they didn't say this:

The National Theatre says it can no longer tour in Europe as post-Brexit cost & paperwork means it's "currently not financially viable"

Touring companies usually plan at least a year ahead, and they've made it very clear how Brexit is going to negatively to impact them.

Here you go again with this crap. Show me the post where I pretended they didn’t say that. Still waiting for you to link to the posts where you can back up all the other stuff you seem to think I have said. Or are you gonna go with the “it was a question” gambit again?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Heh, just had this email, seems they are doing it online during Covid so the money still flows...




I guess people in the EU can also pick this up, problem solved

 

[littlebabyjesus]

it isn't that rare tbf. everyone on the continent speaks english, and Shakespeare is a set text in some countries - my bro did a couple of tours as part of a shakespeare production in the early 00s

Yeah, Shakespeare is massive in Germany in particular - more productions in Germany than in Britain. In German, mostly, but plays can also be shown with surtitles.

 

[ska invita]

Brexit was always going to require leaving the customs union otherwise it would be “brexit in name only” & worse than staying in because the UK would be rule takers without a seat at the table to help to make the rules. That is not opinion that is fact.

of course its an option - its an option Lorde Farage of Downe himself proposed when he banged on about Norway as what Brexit meant

 

[Flavour]

it isn't that rare tbf. everyone on the continent speaks english, and Shakespeare is a set text in some countries - my bro did a couple of tours as part of a shakespeare production in the early 00s

No they don't.

Shakespeare is generally studied in translation in Germany, France, Italy, Spain (i.e. the major markets). It may be studied in English in private schools and smaller countries with a higher general knowledge of English due to decades of good teaching (Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands)

 

[brogdale]

Yeah, Shakespeare is massive in Germany in particular - more productions in Germany than in Britain. In German, mostly, but plays can also be shown with surtitles.

Yep, I've certainly seen surtitled Shakespeare at the Maxim Gorki Theater in Berlin.

 

[editor]

Here you go again with this crap. Show me the post where I pretended they didn’t say that. Still waiting for you to link to the posts where you can back up all the other stuff you seem to think I have said. Or are you gonna go with the “it was a question” gambit again?

The National Theatre has made a clear statement that they are not touring anywhere for the foreseeable* future because of Brexit and your response to that was to claim that "it’s got nothing at all to do with Brexit."

Right here:

The National Theatre isn’t touring anywhere for the foreseeable and it’s got nothing at all to do with Brexit.

*able to be foreseen or predicted

 

[MrSki]

Being discussed in Select Committee on the Parliament Chanel 232 now.

ETA is a repeat from the meeting on 16/2.

 

[editor]

Heh, just had this email, seems they are doing it online during Covid so the money still flows...

View attachment 255071


I guess people in the EU can also pick this up, problem solved

Apart from the fact that online revenues from streamed events are tiny compared to actual shows, of course, they provide far less employment and and it's a hugely inferior experience.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The National Theatre has made a clear statement that they are not touring anywhere for the foreseeable* future because of Brexit and your response to that was to claim that "it’s got nothing at all to do with Brexit."

Right here:



*able to be foreseen or predicted

Thanks for clarifying that you were wrong. They are not touring due to Covid and not cos Brexit. If it were down to Brexit they could tour in the U.K., but they aren’t cos Covid. Exactly as I stated before you came along in a weaselling attempt to twist my statement to fit your agenda. Pretty low of you, but fast becoming your standard MO.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Apart from the fact that online revenues from streamed events are tiny compared to actual shows, of course, they provide far less employment and and it's a hugely inferior experience.

As they can’t put on live shows would you suggest they just sack off their staff and give up then? Why are you so negative about people coming up with solutions to not being able to do live performances due to Covid? Your dismissing of their attempt to keep live art performances possible during these testing times is frankly weird.

 

[rutabowa]

No they don't.

Shakespeare is generally studied in translation in Germany, France, Italy, Spain (i.e. the major markets). It may be studied in English in private schools and smaller countries with a higher general knowledge of English due to decades of good teaching (Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands)

That sounds right from my experience.

 

[editor]

Thanks for clarifying that you were wrong. They are not touring due to Covid and not cos Brexit. If it were down to Brexit they could tour in the U.K., but they aren’t cos Covid. Exactly as I stated before you came along in a weaselling attempt to twist my statement to fit your agenda. Pretty low of you, but fast becoming your standard MO.

This is a thread abut the impact of Brexit. The National Theatre has just made a clear statement saying that they are halting European tours "due to uncertainty over work permits because of Brexit."

“We hope to resume European touring. However, we’re currently unable to make firm plans because of Brexit legislation; the potential additional costs for visas and current uncertainty around social security contributions mean regrettably it is currently not financially viable,” the spokesperson said.

“Before, we were able to travel to Europe visa-free. Now we have to pay hundreds of pounds, fill in form after form, and spend weeks waiting for approval – just so we can do our jobs,” it says.

I'm not sure how much clearer that can be really. Covid has absolutely had an impact recently, but it is Brexit that has resulted in future tours being halted.

 

[editor]

As they can’t put on live shows would you suggest they just sack off their staff and give up then? Why are you so negative about people coming up with solutions to not being able to do live performances due to Covid? Your dismissing of their attempt to keep live art performances possible during these testing times is frankly weird.

I haven't dismissed it all - I'm glad for any employment they can find - but I'm dismissing your suggestion that the money is still "flowing" and that by offering a handful of online streams it's a case of - to quote you directly - "problem solved."

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Weaselling Ed, weaselling.

 

[editor]

Weaselling Ed, weaselling.

Has Brexit directly resulted in forthcoming European tours by the National Theatre being halted, yes/no?