Brexit and musicians/performers and the touring industry: news, updates and experiences

[story]

I’m out.

killer b makes a killer point. Not even sure why I’m arguing about the nuts and bolts of the music industry with someone who doesn’t support all live music.

Bad literature, or art, or music, is still creative endeavour. It’s still worthwhile.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You didn't make money = you failed

What a depressingly soulless capitalist view of the world.

 

[killer b]

But most bands fail as they are not very good.

You don't like music, I get it. But you're wrong. I go to shitloads of gigs by bands who definitely aren't able to support themselves financially by playing and recording their music, and the vast majority are wonderful.

 

[story]

You don't like music, I get it. But you're wrong. I go to shitloads of gigs by bands who definitely aren't able to support themselves financially by playing and recording their music, and the vast majority are wonderful.

And even if I‘m not that keen, there are other people who really rate them.

And afterwards, we might have an involved and interesting conversation about what they liked about them and why I prefer a different band.

(who saw White Devil DIsco last week…?)

 

[editor]

It's seems to me the biggest obstacle to many small bands touring the EU is the lack of people who want to pay to see them.

You're talking fucking bollocks and this has nothing to do with Brexit. You're clearly not interested in actually engaging with the topic and you continue to discount the informed posts from people who do know what they're talking about.

And now you've driving away story - someone who has a great deal of experience in carnets - with your endless disruptive whataboutery about 'shit' small bands and now your new - and equally ignorant - claim that 'people don't want to see' those bands.

In line with the rules set out at the beginning of this thread, you're banned off this thread for a week, Feel fee to contact the mods if you think this is unfair.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If you put on an event and the performers and audience all have a good time, you have succeeded, not failed, even if the event loses money.

This is just a bonkers attitude to see expressed here. Proper fucking Tory philistine.

 

[editor]

I’m out.

killer b makes a killer point. Not even sure why I’m arguing about the nuts and bolts of the music industry with someone who doesn’t support all live music.

Bad literature, or art, or music, is still creative endeavour. It’s still worthwhile.

Absolutely. And who the fuck decides what is good art or bad art? Financial success, FFS?

There's a band who produce some beautiful music that has - quite literally - quite probably saved my life on occasions, but they've come nowhere near being a major commercial success despite decades in the business.

 

[Duncan2]

If you put on an event and the performers and audience all have a good time, you have succeeded, not failed, even if the event loses money.

This is just a bonkers attitude to see expressed here. Proper fucking Tory philistine.

Is it fair to ban Topcat off the thread and then start pitching in to him ?Just asking?

 

[killer b]

And who the fuck decides what is good art or bad art?

oh, that's me. there was a vote.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is it fair to ban Topcat off the thread and then start pitching in to him ?Just asking?

I didn't ban him, and I hadn't seen he was banned when I posted that. Look at the post timings - I was writing when the ban announcement was posted.

Take up his banning with editor. I don't like thread bans and think they are massively overused fwiw.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m out.

killer b makes a killer point. Not even sure why I’m arguing about the nuts and bolts of the music industry with someone who doesn’t support all live music.

Bad literature, or art, or music, is still creative endeavour. It’s still worthwhile.

i would be astonished if anyone on this thread or indeed on urban genuinely supported all live music. the likes of whitelaw, brutal attack etc i'll never support and hope no one here would either

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It's a reasonable point. The endless imploring for the fate of small struggling bands touring the EU. No other workers mind. The reality is though that most bands are shit, same as most authors and artists. Not relevant especially but seeing hyperbole rages on this thread it certainly fits in.

If there was a thread about fishermen saying things were more difficult, and the people on it were actual fishermen who actually fished for a living, you know what I’d do? I might actually listen to them.

 

[Duncan2]

If there was a thread about fishermen saying things were more difficult, and the people on it were actual fishermen who actually fished for a living, you know what I’d do? I might actually listen to them.

Too late beesonthewhatnow he is no longer on the thread.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Too late beesonthewhatnow he is no longer on the thread.

He can still read the thread.

 

[Duncan2]

He can still read the thread.

Cool

 

[editor]

I didn't ban him, and I hadn't seen he was banned when I posted that. Look at the post timings - I was writing when the ban announcement was posted.

Take up his banning with editor. I don't like thread bans and think they are massively overused fwiw.

I think there's been about a maximum of 2 or 3 issued in the last month. MASSIVE!

He's only banned for a week, btw.

 

[editor]

Here's another band struggling post-Brexit:

 

[story]

i would be astonished if anyone on this thread or indeed on urban genuinely supported all live music. the likes of whitelaw, brutal attack etc i'll never support and hope no one here would either

Or Wagner or any of the other people with shit politics who make stuff.

I saw Brutal Attack once. They made a good noise. I’m glad I saw them. Doesn’t mean I’m a nazi.

I find Mrs Browns Boys offensive and shit

Rape jokes etc

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This could possibly go in a general “shitshow benefits of brexit” thread, but as it will have an effect on tour busses I’ve put it here.

Eurotunnel restrictions on coaches draw angry response - routeone

Restrictions on the number of booking for coaches that will be accepted by Eurotunnel have drawn anger from affected members of the industry.

www.route-one.net

 

[editor]

Looks like Brexit is turning out to be a major pain for even the big bands too

Mick Jagger has said that Brexit has been a “nightmare” for the music touring industry.

Since 2016, there has been much talk about the impact leaving the EU will have on artists looking to tour Europe.

This has included obstacles in obtaining visas and work permits in the EU, as well as transporting equipment across borders and other problems facing artists coming to the UK to perform.



In a new interview, Jagger, 78, opened up about struggles of Britain “isolating ourselves” through Brexit for musicians.

“There are a lot of supply chain problems,” he told The Sunday Times. “A lot of shortages, a lot of problems because of Brexit. Brexit has not been a success for the British touring industry.”

Mick Jagger says Brexit is a ‘nightmare’ for British touring musicians

‘We’ve isolated ourselves, and that sounds good to some, but it’s an ideology more than a practicality,’ musician said

www.independent.co.uk

 

[editor]

Another disappointed musician

 

[editor]

Here's an illuminating report on the realities of post-Brexit touring in Europe:

Just establishing what we needed to do in order to comply with carnet and customs rules took weeks of research and endless exchanges of email questions and answers. We spoke with ferry staff, government departments in both Ireland and the UK, LCC/Boomerang personnel, fellow musicians and the MU’s very kind and helpful Dave Webster.

We eventually learned that for the UK-Ireland route at least, we were allowed to travel on a carnet as a passenger vehicle rather than freight (which would have tripled our travel costs), as long as we kept the merch we carried under the €1,000 “merchandise in baggage” limit. This limit was based on the cost price, not the retail value, of the merch we carried.

T-shirts form a big part of my merch sales, so I’m sure I lost money by not having them to sell at my Ireland gigs. I also spent money shipping the bulk of my merch for the UK leg of the tour to Scotland, so that we could collect it after getting the Belfast-Cairnryan ferry.

Completing the required inventory of all the gear we carry (which includes a full PA system as well as instruments and other associated tech) took days, as every item had to be individually listed with its replacement value and if applicable, serial number.

The total cost of the carnet from LCC, including a 12-month security bond to cover £15,333 worth of gear, came to £379.25. In order to be able to spread the cost of that carnet across three tours, I’ve scheduled another Ireland tour for Jan-Feb 2023 and a continental Europe tour for March 2023 — a decision I might not have taken if the carnet cost hadn’t been a factor.

Navigating Tours in Ireland and Europe post Brexit and Covid: A Case Study

In this insightful case study, MU member Sarah McQuaid outlines the extensive process she has gone through prior to touring in Ireland and Europe.

musiciansunion.org.uk

 

[editor]

And...

Pre-Brexit, I’d usually have a representative from the amplifier company stop by the venue to issue a replacement, which they’d happily allow me to take back to the UK whilst the broken amplifier is being repaired. However, that now can’t be done, as we’re obligated to re-enter the UK in possession of every single item with which we left it, and no more. The faulty amplifier, like every single item we bring with us, is listed on the carnet, with its weight, type, model number and serial number provided, and must simply come along for the ride.

The carnet expires in 12 months, and it can’t be altered until its expiration date. That means we must make extra sure to list and bring with us spares of everything we use, whilst also making sure that they won’t drastically increase insurance costs. That goes for every single item, right down to power adapters, power units, power leads, extension cables, XLR and quarter inch cables, patch cables, guitars, guitar cases, guitar pedals, pedalboards, guitar stands, drums, drum stands, drum cases, cymbals, cymbal stands, cymbal cases, microphones, wireless transmitters and receivers, in-ear monitors (plus their respective cases), and the rest!

None of these can be replaced as and when needed, whilst we tour Europe. Weeks before starting the tour, I was tasked with logging all the items on the carnet, which meant stripping apart pedalboards that had taken us 15 years to assemble, just to get at the serial numbers of every guitar pedal before weighing them separately.

As well as this, we also incurred the not-insubstantial cost of requiring someone to cast a keen eye over the carnet for approval before submission. Then there’s the wait during inspections at Dover, on the way out and on the way back, as the carnet is reconciled with every piece listed.

Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation. It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging. Culturally and economically, however, the arts industry’s suffering is really only just beginning.

Opinion: I’m the guitarist in The Subways – this is how Brexit has affected us

Brexit, six years on: Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation. It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Dr. Furface]

And...

Opinion: I’m the guitarist in The Subways – this is how Brexit has affected us

Brexit, six years on: Where before there was a sense of freedom, now there’s limitation. It’s ironic, really, given Vote Leave’s campaign messaging

www.independent.co.uk

I’m amazed he left it at ‘now there’s limitation’
I’d have added ‘unnecessary expense, frustration, anger, resentment’ and maybe more. The utter pointlessness of it all really boils my piss - and I’m not even involved in the music industry.

 

[skyscraper101]

I was tasked with logging all the items on the carnet, which meant stripping apart pedalboards that had taken us 15 years to assemble, just to get at the serial numbers of every guitar pedal before weighing them separately.

Absolutely insane bureaucracy. And the very thing so many Brexshit enthusiasts were championing as their cause célèbre to get out of the EU. Fucking idiots.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Now now, I’m sure the benefits will be clear to us all any day soon

 

[editor]

Another Brexit voter having second thoughts.

Brexiteer Bruce Dickinson slams UK government over Brexit’s impact on UK musicians

Previously ‘pretty relaxed’ about Brexit, Iron Maiden’s Bruce Dickinson is now frustrated by Brexit’s impact on UK artists

www.loudersound.com

 

[TopCat]

Another Brexit voter having second thoughts.

Brexiteer Bruce Dickinson slams UK government over Brexit’s impact on UK musicians

Previously ‘pretty relaxed’ about Brexit, Iron Maiden’s Bruce Dickinson is now frustrated by Brexit’s impact on UK artists

www.loudersound.com

Who was the other one?

 

[editor]

Who was the other one?

There's loads of people - and some musicians - who have since regretted their stupid decision to vote for Brexit (e.g.: Roger Fuckwit Daltry)

 

[skyscraper101]

'Every barrier in the world went up overnight': Some bands are skipping the UK because of Brexit — Sky News

It has been three years since the UK last enjoyed a full fixture of festivals - from local line-ups to the likes of Glastonbury and Download.

apple.news

And even acts flying in from the US for the European festival season have to consider whether it is worth adding a British event to their schedule.

"Some bands that we know have actually not come to the UK because of the headache," says Mr Gregory. "They just can't be bothered with it.

And who can blame these bands not stopping in the U.K. for a few shows when it can cost hundreds of $$$ just to get a carnet sorted and it’s easier to just skip the U.K. entirely and do all their business in the EU/EEA.