Right but this is so generalised that it is pretty much useless as a route forward. The specifics are really important, to prioritise what needs to get sorted out first. So e.g. the national theatre doing one show in paris a year (that is funded by their other activities, mainly UK) is not as big a priority as e.g. the collapse of the haulage industry.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
They claim that under the current arrangements that they will not be able to.
My turn;
Yes or no?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Do these things need to be sorted one at a time? They're not unrelated - they're both a result of the way the UK left the customs union.
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hiraethified
So that's a 'yes' then. Brexit has indeed directly resulted in forthcoming European tours by the National Theatre being halted.
I've already answered that: " Covid has absolutely had an impact recently, but it is Brexit that has resulted in future tours being halted "
I dont know. I do know that they are different situations though, and amalgamating everything into one "Brexit is shit" bucket does not help anyone.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sure. That doesn't let brexit off the hook, though. It just does an even better job of providing cover. Brexit's effects have been mostly delayed by covid because things are fucked anyway right at this moment. The hope is that in perhaps six months' time things won't be so fucked by covid any more. Then brexit takes over.
However, I think it's also fair to say that brexit is fucking things if future tours pencilled in for a post-covid world are cancelled.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
So when I made that statement earlier what prompted you to reply with this:
Ah, so you're going to pretend they didn't say this:
The National Theatre says it can no longer tour in Europe as post-Brexit cost & paperwork means it's "currently not financially viable"
If not you being a weasel?
Tbh I'm sure the NT thing could also be phrased as "we are in severe financial difficulty because of covid, and so cannot afford the costs of an expensive European tour". I mean it is to do with money right? It is all the same pot. Just depends what emphasis they want to make.
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hiraethified
Really got no time for this. The facts are there for all to see, and no amount of childish name calling will alter that fact. Brexit has resulted in the National Theatre halting European tours.
National Theatre shelves European touring after Brexit
The venue says a "lack of clarity" about visas and permits makes such tours "not financially viable".
www.bbc.co.uk
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hiraethified
It's about the additional expenditure caused by Brexit, the "potential additional costs for visas" and the current "lack of clarity around social security contributions." These extra costs have nothing to do with Covid, which has already caused huge problems for the industry.
It's also why my band may have to cancel some European dates.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not according to them. They're pretty explicit about the extra costs of brexit making it unviable. Your point is only really valid if they are lying about that.
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hiraethified
My band had European dates cancelled/postponed because of Covid.
Some of those rescheduled dates may now not go ahead after Brexit because the costs of visas/carnets/insurance etc may make them financially untenable.
I'm struggling to see why this isn't self explanatory.
It wouldn't be lying, just not going into excessive detail. It is pretty implausible to think that the lack of money due to covid did not play any part at all in them not having enough money to go to europe, regardless of extra costs. But the extra costs also would not have helped. Would they have been able to afford to go if covid happened, but without the extra costs from brexit?
I'm talking about the National Theatre. I am saying their situation is different and less urgent than yours.
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hiraethified
Why is it less urgent? They have bills and wages to pay like everyone else.
So if your band was offered well paid gigs in Europe in, say, November this year when touring has opened up again (hopefuilly), how would Covid have an impact on your ability to play those dates?
The european tours do not pay the NT bills, they are a cost! The vast majority of their income is UK/arts council. That is a big difference to a band, where a big part of your income could well be europe.
It would mean I probably couldn't go as I had to change job partly due to covid and wont be able to get time off! But also will mean we are unlikely to get offered well paid anything as noone has any money... But also the new regulations because of brexit would also make it more difficult.
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hiraethified
I'll move these posts if I have a moment.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Most of its income comes from the box office. It gets a chunk of public money, but that is nowhere near a majority of its income. International box office is almost as much as the public subsidy.
The cost/income analysis of big shows isn't straightforward, given that all the development costs are already taken care of before you start touring, so I'm not sure how much of a cost touring actually represents.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I'm not completely up to date with the cultural fabric of Europe but do UK comedians tour Europe?
Ok, that pretty much matches what I said.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Does it? I was surprised to find that international box office was such a big part of its income - a quarter of its entire box office income.
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hiraethified
Not quite sure of the relevance but some UK comedians do indeed tour Europe/Ireland.
President of Live Nation’s European comedy touring division, Ian Coburn, said: ‘With the success of global streaming, the demand for English speaking comedy is growing especially in Europe and we want to help artists with a gateway to these exiting territories and others in future years’.’
Six European comedy festivals to be announced : News 2020 : Chortle : The UK Comedy Guide
Six European comedy festivals to be announced - Brexit, schmexit...www.chortle.co.uk
Eddie Izzard has performed many shows in Europe. I am sure others do too.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Bet she runs between venues.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I'm asking about British comedians touring and their role in the cultural fabric of Europe because I was intrigued by this quote from some French 'cultural critic' Laura Cappelle writing in the Guardian in March 2020
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Most of the doom in my weekly management meetings is now very much focused on Brexit, not covid.
Covid we’ve just about got through. Was a bumpy ride but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It should now be a case of getting things ready for when things open up and have acts booked. Except Brexit is now firmly there as a spanner in the works, mainly down to the sheer uncertainty of it all. We can’t plan for things that haven’t even been worked out yet. It’s utter madness.
Covid we’ve just about got through. Was a bumpy ride but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It should now be a case of getting things ready for when things open up and have acts booked. Except Brexit is now firmly there as a spanner in the works, mainly down to the sheer uncertainty of it all. We can’t plan for things that haven’t even been worked out yet. It’s utter madness.
Yes, I said the vast majority of their income comes from their uk activities and the arts council, and it does.
What we dont know from that chart is how much of the 13 million from international box office (eu and non eu, ie including broadway) is swallowed by the costs of touring; I suggested that all of it plus more was (if you removed broadway from the figures at least), but I don't know for absolute sure. I do know that their uk activities are way more profitable though, and I'd say more culturally important.
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